Swapping out the pups and pots

[just strum]

I originally posted this in my P90 thread, but figured it would be best to start a new one.

I have the old components out of the guitar (pups are already installed). The pots at the top are the new pots and I will start transferring the wires tomorrow. I can't find my wire strippers, so I have to go out and buy a new one.

The pups and ground wires are installed, once I get the pots wired, then I will begin attaching things see how she sounds.

Any additional advice is certainly welcome.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h16/auroraohio/Guitars/001.jpg

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h16/auroraohio/002.jpg

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h16/auroraohio/003.jpg

I came across this to assist with the wiring and still looking for more information on the web.

http://www.gibson.com/Gear_News.aspx?AliasPath=/Products/Accessories/Gear/News/Pickup%20the%20Pace

[street music]

Strum, have you checked stewmac.com
I can scan and email a page to you.

[just strum]

Strum, have you checked stewmac.com
I can scan and email a page to you.

Street, I never even thought of that. - thanks.

[markb]

My favourite wiring resource.

http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/

[just strum]

Okay, I'm looking at the existing wiring and then looking for wiring to use with the new pups.

One thing I noticed is the current wiring has a wire w/cap running from volume to tone, however in the attached diagram it shows a different set up. The previous pups were P90's and now I am installing
http://www.dimarzio.com/site/#/pickups/
http://www.dimarzio.com/site/#/pickups/

and was planning on using this diagram

http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=2h_2v_2t_3w

I also noticed there aren't a series of ground wires going to a single point (see first post where my hand is pulling back the wires).

So, what says you?

[bigoldron]

Here's where I got that wiring model from:

http://www.specialtyguitars.com/kits/lp_diagram.pdf

I bought my original upgrade for the Idol 64 from them and used the same basic layout. You can use the cap as the wire between the vol and tone pot or do it the Seymour Duncan has it. I also swapped the lugs on the vol pot for the pup hot wire and cap and the wire to the switch. This allows you to adjust the individual volume for either pickup to change the mix when the switch is in the middle position.

I do see one mistake I made when wiring up your Idol. I put the cap on the middle lug of the tone pot instead of the left lug. That might account for the lack of tone control. I got in a hurry when wiring that last set of pots and didn't take time to look at the wiring diagram. Of course, it might work either way and they were just bad pots. I cheaped out and bought them off ebay instead of buying them from a reputable dealer.

Other than that, I wish you good luck. I'm excited and anxious to hear how she turns out. She's definitely got the looks and now, hopefully, she'll have the voice to be a true rock monster. Maybe then, you'll change your avatar to include her. :AOK:

[just strum]

Ronnie, Do you think the wiring is different for the humbuckers and that might be some of the difference?

[bigoldron]

Ronnie, Do you think the wiring is different for the humbuckers and that might be some of the difference?

As far as I know not. I had the tones working before, but, when I put those last ones in, I crossed the lugs. There's a possibility that I might have overheated the caps and cooked them. Who knows. Check with mrmudcat, he's the guru on wiring.

[mrmudcat]

Use this the bigger cap is for bridge circuit the thin one .15 is for neck.

http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=2h_2v_2t_3w

[just strum]

Use this the bigger cap is for nridge circuit the thin one .15 is for neck.

http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=2h_2v_2t_3w

I just sent you an e-mail, but you just answered my question.

You are da man, you should be in Dixie.

[Dauntless]

Pick one and ride with it!
You can always change it.

When I rewired my CV Tele, this last week, I found that the my CV's wiring did not match the diagram provided by Fender, so I wired it as a standard, with a CRL switch and CTS pots with a no load tone and used a 22 cap instead of the 33 that it came with.
I mounted the cap to the middle lug of the tone and grounded it to the pot, different than the Tele standard diagram I started with. I installed the cap in the same config as the original, as I already have a Lite Ash that I wired as a standard with a 47 cap between the volume and tone.

I guess, what I'm trying to say is, don't be afraid to experiment!
Make it yours!

I also have a Gibson SG with a 22 on the treble side and a 47 on the bass side.
Sounds like "my SG" not every one elses

Above all, have fun!
If it gets to be too much for the moment, walk away and come back to it later. It ain't goin' nowhere.

[just strum]

Step II: pots, switch, and jack soldered.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h16/auroraohio/Guitars/001-1.jpg

Now to solder pups and finish up ground wires. The diagram shows bending one tang up and soldering it to the pot, but bending it up doesn't put it in a good position for soldering, so I will have to connect with wire.

Not the prettiest soldering job, but I've seen worse and I seem to be getting better with each connection.

[bigoldron]

Not the prettiest soldering job, but I've seen worse and I seem to be getting better with each connection.

Hey, as you can testify to, it looks as good as some of mine and better than a lot of mine. But, I just got a new soldering iron and between it and the smaller size solder, I've already done better than in the past. Some people have a knack for it, just like everything else, and some of us have to work at it. I'm getting better as I go, though.

Getting close, huh buddy? I know you've got to be getting excited. I know I'm ready to hear how she sounds. Of course, I'm also ready to find out who won the raffle. :confused:

[just strum]

Well, round one failed. I get buzzing and a faint sound of guitar if I hold the bridge tone pot.

[mrmudcat]

please dont heat up the pots:tongue:

Got pics of the wiring job.You also dont want the bottom of pups or and bare wire hiiting the copper sheilding.Obvious I know ;)

[just strum]

please dont heat up the pots:tongue:

Got pics of the wiring job.

It's all put away for the night. My eyes are crossed and I'm tired, so no pics tonight. I don't think I heated up any pots, but if I did, how would I know for sure?

I was interrupted so many times while putting it together that I had to keep on going back to verify all of the connections. I got to a point where I just wanted to wrap it up. I may end up buying new pots if the wiring seems correct.

It was my first time doing a mod and the first time for soldering, so I don't feel too upset about the first outcome. Try again later in the week.

[mrmudcat]

Mark not to sound harsh bro but the parts are really as top notch as it gets.That set is new and working and I doubt you heated them up.It has to be the wiring.....I f your going to swap out that stuff id like it back including caps.Ill pay for those since you got the pup sent my way.

I can only say to make sure of your connections and frankly ,if you spend money on other parts which there isnt much better then take it to a luthier to fix it up for around the same coin.Not saying give up but changing stuff if its junk is one thing ,changing cause it is used and might be junk or fried is another .Changing top parts cause you failed the first time is just senseless.My opinion of course,but ill gladly take the parts back brother and let ya know if I get the suff working:poke:

[mrmudcat]

Need pics to trouble shoot and or help what your doing;)


If you have a voltmeter you can test the pots.Email me any other questions or needed suggestions or pm if ya like ..............There are alot of others smarter than me who can help and will given time .Dont rush job this fo-sho:beer:

[just strum]

I don't doubt the quality of the parts or whether they were good to begin with, in fact if I did buy new parts, it would be same ones you sent me. The wiring is such that the pics will be difficult to capture, but I will try tomorrow.

I do have a question (one of those that should have been asked prior to starting:thwap: )

In the diagram it shows the solder on the pots as if all wiring is soldered to one spot on each pot, is that required? Hope you understand what I am asking.

http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=2h_2v_2t_3w

[Kazz]

my bet is on a cold solder joint.

[just strum]

my bet is on a cold solder joint.

heard of it, but what is it.

[tunghaichuan]

Just to make sure: You're using DiMarzio pickups, correct? If so, you can't use the Seymour Duncan color codes, they have different color coding for their pickups than Dimarzio does.

Take a look at the respective codes on this page:

http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/Electronics/Color_codes.html

If you wired you're DiMarzio pickups using SD color codes, you'll have to rewire them using DiMarzio codes.

BTW, a cold solder joint is one where the solder wasn't heated enough, or was moved wile solidifying. It is usually dull and pasty looking. A properly made solder joint made with leaded solder is shiny. Cold solder joints cause connectivity/conductivity proplems in the circuit.

tung

[just strum]

Just to make sure: You're using DiMarzio pickups, correct? If so, you can't use the Seymour Duncan color codes, they have different color coding for their pickups than Dimarzio does.

Take a look at the respective codes on this page:

http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/Electronics/Color_codes.html



There you go, that has to be it. Thanks for catching that.

[mrmudcat]

Some Georgia eagle eys (not mine they are shot.) spotted no ground[hot) wire from the output jack.The second pic only one connection is hooked up eitherhotside or ground side :poke:


The pots your replacing are new cts ,so hopefully you can use them in another project! That is if you dont go crazy with this one!:rotflmao: Dont forget ground to bridge;)

[just strum]

Some Georgia eagle eys (not mine they are shot.) spotted no ground[hot) wire from the output jack.The second pic only one connection is hooked up eitherhotside or ground side :poke:

Those pics are of incomplete wiring, just the initial transfer of the




The pots your replacing are new cts ,so hopefully you can use them in another project! That is if you dont go crazy with this one!:rotflmao: Dont forget ground to bridge;)

Are you saying these cannot be used for the existing project?

[mrmudcat]

No im saying the RSGUITAR WORKS pots I sent are replacing a good set of pots(cts) that you can use in another project. (I think ron just bought those)Ill shut up now as it seems im making shiat worse .......if ya need me you can email me.

[just strum]

Latest update: I have guitar sound and no buzzing or hissing.

Now the bad news:

1) I have no tone control for the bridge or the neck.

2) Neck volume control has very little gradual change and after you move it up from 1 (which has no sound) and get to 3 it is loud, after 3 it is extremely loud.

3) Bridge, same response when starting at one, but does not have the same loudness as I near 10, although it is still somewhat loud.

Being absent the tone controls it makes it difficult to get a true feel for the tone, but I think these pups are a winner (I'll obviously know for sure once the bugs are worked out).

Now, based on the information I provided, do you think it is wiring or did I fry some things?:thwap:

[tunghaichuan]

Latest update: I have guitar sound and no buzzing or hissing.

Now the bad news:

Now, based on the information I provided, do you think it is wiring or did I fry some things?:thwap:

At least you have sound now, so you can be fairly confident that you made all the ground connections. As far as the tone and volume controls go, the tone controls have an open lug. Another thing to check is to make sure that the lead connecting to the lug of the pot is not shorting to the case of the pot.

Can you post pix? It might be able to help us figure out what went wrong.

tung

[just strum]

I'll try posting pics tomorrow, but it will be embarrassing to display my first ever soldering job and the cavity is so cramped to begin with and then there is just a lot of wire. Maybe I will take a couple of angles and you can make something out of it.

I thought about just throwing the pots in the cavity, a bunch of pieces of cut wire, and then just fill the whole thing up with solder and hope that somehow the connections would somehow be made.

[just strum]

These pots have a taper(custom) that should give you a noticeable difference between each number on your volume control.If at one two three you should have clear tone clarity. They are really great from my personal guitars more control over volume and tone.I have not tried those rocking dimarzios with a rs kit.Pics when ya can and maybe we can see if your wiring and or solders look good .When you get a chance.I will also butt out on your insistence mark if ya want me too:thwap:

no, don't butt out. I value your input, I'm just tired. These eyes just don't have the capability they use to have and staring at all the soldering points took its toll.

Probably frustrated more than anything and concerned I screwed up the pots or caps. It's really ugly in that cavity. I used the tops (or bottoms depending on which end you choose as up) for grounding and it did get sloppy. I'm tempted to pull everything out, remove the solder, clean the pots and start over. I hate sloppy work and even when it's closed up, I will know what's under the cover.

[just strum]

As a little side note or actually a question: Does anyone know where there is a good video or detailed photo display of soldering technique? Everything I locate is about circuit boards and I am looking for something that is wire and connector or tang related.

I learned a few things on my first try - my soldering sucks!!!

[marnold]

I found this DVD (http://terrydownsmusic.com/solder_video/soldervideo.html) to be extremely helpful.

[duhvoodooman]

I'll try posting pics tomorrow, but it will be embarrassing to display my first ever soldering job and the cavity is so cramped to begin with and then there is just a lot of wire.
Your first couple of soldering jobs are bound to be ugly, so don't worry about it. I've looked at a couple of mine and laughed out loud. Pitiful.

But ugly and non-functional are two different things. So if you're getting sound, you're making progress. Some well-lit, well-focused close-up shots will be helpful in helping you troubleshoot.

[just strum]

I found this DVD (http://terrydownsmusic.com/solder_video/soldervideo.html) to be extremely helpful.

I'll have to check that out. Judging by your avatar, the arctic blast has made it's way through your area. It is just entering this area about 3 or 4 hours ago and included an Alberta clipper.

[marnold]

I'll have to check that out. Judging by your avatar, the arctic blast has made it's way through your area. It is just entering this area about 3 or 4 hours ago and included an Alberta clipper.
Yeah, we've got a wind chill watch for tomorrow night. The high for Thursday is supposed to be -2F.

Back on topic: I really liked that video. It's much easier to "get it" when you see someone actually soldering instead of reading about someone soldering.

[just strum]

I tried taking some pics, but there is nothing you will be able to tell from them - bad lighting and a lot of wire.

I'm pulling everything back out and unsoldering (not tonight).

I'm ordering the video, I don't want the job to be half-A. I want to clean everything up and start fresh with good connections.

Question for Mud - If the iron got too close to one of the caps, what would it take to fry it? I'm not saying it happened, but I'm trying to determine why I don't have tone.

I also noticed that when I have the switch in the middle position, it seems to only be playing the neck pick-up. Plus, I have the issue about the volume knobs not responding correctly.

I looked at the instructions that came with the DiMarzio pick-ups and it's all text for standard humbucker wiring and I prefer a visual. Obviously I should have read them first so I would have least caught the color wiring difference (yep, I'm the guy that doesn't need to pull over to a gas station because I'm not lost).

The Stew-Mac info confused me because of all the wires noting to the jack. The SD wasn't like that and neither was the instructions that came with the pick-ups.

So three things that I am doing before rewiring:

1) Order the video
2) unsolder and clean everything
3) Make sure I have the correct instructions.

[just strum]

Here are the instructions that came with the pick ups.

http://www.dimarzio.com//media/diagrams/4Conductor.pdf

[Kazz]

Mark,

Do you have any solder braid? That will make the desolder and clean up much easier....

I suggest going to radio shack or your local mom and pop electronics shop and get some cheap potentiometers and a spool of wire so you can practice.

Pick up a digital multimeter if you do not have one.....then once you get your wires soldered onto the cheap pots....connect the leads of your meter across the pins of the cheap pot....and then the knob....you should see a variation in resistance across the spectrum.

(I would check the resistance across your good pots too just to double check.

Then while you are at it.....you can use your meter to double check your work on the guitar....checking for conductivity from one connection to the next. It will help identify the missing link.


(Yes...I am quite tickled with myself right now....because I finally had something useful to post here after a year or so) :dude: :dude: :dude:

[just strum]

DiMarzio just e-mailed me a real nice diagram - let's rock!!!

I sent the request out late last night and the response was in my in box this morning - I appreciate businesses like that.

[tunghaichuan]

DiMarzio just e-mailed me a real nice diagram - let's rock!!!

I sent the request out late last night and the response was in my in box this morning - I appreciate businesses like that.

Post it here if you feel comfortable doing that. That way we can help you better get this project sorted out.

tung

[duhvoodooman]

Post it here if you feel comfortable doing that. That way we can help you better get this project sorted out.

tung
+1

[just strum]

Let me add a clarification question - is the loop at the bottom of the switch just tying in the grounds together or did some smart A DiMazario tech decide to draw an upside down light bulb?

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h16/auroraohio/2h2v2t_3waytoggleground.gif

[duhvoodooman]

Good, clear drawing from DiMarzio. Now just follow it explicitly.

Re: the loop on the 3-way, for that particular kind of switch, the two "hot sides" need to be connected and then run out to the output jack. Unless you had to wire your own 3-way switch together from scratch, just use it as it was, assuming it worked correctly before you started this surgery.

[bigoldron]

The toggle switch in that guitar is (was) wired correctly. Just wire it back like it was and you should be OK. That's a not-too-old replacement switch I ordered from Stewmac and worked fine when it left here.

[just strum]

The toggle switch in that guitar is (was) wired correctly. Just wire it back like it was and you should be OK. That's a not-too-old replacement switch I ordered from Stewmac and worked fine when it left here.

I didn't disconnect any of the wires attached to the switch or jack figuring they were functional to begin with and had good connections.

[just strum]

I found this DVD (http://terrydownsmusic.com/solder_video/soldervideo.html) to be extremely helpful.

Came home tonight and it already arrived. I'm watching it now and will give you my thoughts.

[just strum]

The soldering video was a big help, the diagram from DiMarzio also a BIG help.
Plus a big thanks to Mr Mudcat, and also DVM, Marnold, tunghaichuan, Marnold, Kazz, Street, markb, bigoldron, kazz, and on and on.

this sums it up

bPmVhyHBRAM&feature=related

[Kazz]

Havent even watched that clip yet...but going to surmise.....It's Alive.......It's ALIVE....IT'S A L I V E.

I love me some Young Frankenstein

[Kazz]

Oh and Strum.....You are Abby.....


Abby Normal

[just strum]

Oh and Strum.....You are Abby.....


Abby Normal
:rotflmao:

[bigoldron]

What hump?
Love me? Miss me? Act casual... :rotflmao:

Glad to hear that the beast lives Mark! :bravo: How does she sound?

[just strum]

This soldering station may have created a monster.

I have a couple of people interested in the Washburn, but I told them I was going to swap the pots before it leaves.

Well, I take out the 500K and install the 250K, but they didn't work properly. The tone would act similar to a volume pot and when turned all the way in one direction it would cut out the sound (but would work as tone until cutting out).

So I reinstalled the 500K and only the bridge pick-up worked. So after messing around with the wiring, I returned the 250K, and now the same thing with the 250K. I believe the problem is in the switch, but I'm not sure.

So I guess I will start with a new switch and go from there.