It's Like Gibson Is Reading the Board

[just strum]

I received this late yesterday - a link to heaven.

http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Elec...t-Reissue.aspx

[duhvoodooman***]

If that's the price for heaven, I won't be getting in.

[Rocket]

It's Like Gibson Is Reading the Board

$5,649 MSRP... obviously they're not reading the financial news!

[just strum]

$4,500 out the door, a drop in the bucket.

But, you're right, one has to look at the economy, so I will lower my desires.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ESLCVSNH/

[Blaze]

Check this Strum...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Gibson-ES-335-Do...3%3A1|294%3A50


http://www.wwbw.com/Gibson-Custom-ES...b-000423c27407

[Rocket]

10-years ago I wouldn't have said this but:
Epiphone is building consistently high-quality products in their new China manufacturing facility that is currently, at least, matching or exceeding Gibson's "Made in USA" quality control. More & more "name" pro performers are seeing the cost-efficiency benefits of playing Epiphone's LP, SG, & ES models and pocketing the $K's difference.
Epiphone learned some hard lessons with the Samick years before finally investing in their own dedicated facility manned by their own US supervisory & Quality Control staff & local labor.

Epiphone has finally become, "The Smart Buy" for Gibson aficionados.

Secondary bonus... nobody counterfeits Epiphones!

[ZMAN]

I can't believe their MSRPs. I have spent around that amount in the last 3 years, and I have a Gibson 335, LP Classic Gold top, LP Standard, and an LP Studio.
But in the 335 style, I would say the Korean made Natural finish Sheraton I have, that was built by Sammick, is an amazing instrument. The neck is comfortable and I don't mind the pickups.
If you threw in a set of 57s in here it would be in the 335 range all day.
I have a 335 and I love it but the Sheri is a very close second.

[just strum]

10-years ago I wouldn't have said this but:
Epiphone is building consistently high-quality products in their new China manufacturing facility that is currently, at least, matching or exceeding Gibson's "Made in USA" quality control. More & more "name" pro performers are seeing the cost-efficiency benefits of playing Epiphone's LP, SG, & ES models and pocketing the $K's difference.
Epiphone learned some hard lessons with the Samick years before finally investing in their own dedicated facility manned by their own US supervisory & Quality Control staff & local labor.

Epiphone has finally become, "The Smart Buy" for Gibson aficionados.

Secondary bonus... nobody counterfeits Epiphones!

I have three Epi's, so you will get little argument out of me. The Epi versus Gibson is a running debate over at the Epi forum and usually ends in name calling and a real meltdown. I think Epi is great bang for the buck and their Elitist series (what's left of it) is/was loaded with some great models. It's only the ES335 that has the blood flowing. I'm not an SG or LP guy and the others they offer, just don't have the magic for me.

Reality - I will eventually upgrade the pups, pots, and switch in the Dot and probably be very happy.

[wingsdad]

...Epiphone is building consistently high-quality products in their new China manufacturing facility that is currently, at least, matching or exceeding Gibson's "Made in USA" quality control. ...

Over at the Epi (by Gibson) forum, there's quite a bit of debate about the current or recent QC from Gibson China. I briefly had an '04 Gibson China (s/n EE04 etc) LP Standard, and it was, indeed excellent. But then, I tried an '07 EE LP Standard PlusTop, and it was...not good. And they still continue to job out to Korea and Chinese factories like Dae Woo...

...Epiphone learned some hard lessons with the Samick years ...

I know I've read at the Epi Forum of some dogs that Unsung Korea built, but the Samick Korean and Peerless Korean Epis seem to be well-regarded there.

I just know about my 2 Epi's: an '01 Samick Sheraton II that, with its Gibson 57 Classics (do it, ZMAN, do it!) and upgraded DiMarzio pots and Switchcraft toggle, I'd put up against any recent Gibby 335. OK, so I'm biased. I believe they shut SK down in '04 and moved to Indonesia? Still, SI has produced many Epis, acoustics, at least thru '07 and into '08.

...I will eventually upgrade the pups, pots, and switch in the Dot and probably be very happy.

Indeed you will, Mark...indeed you will. It will cost you about $200-$250 or so for the parts (assuming Gibson 57's) shopping as smart as you do, maybe as much as 300 if you choose to have a pro do the installs.

My other current Epi is an '05 Peerless Casino (Gibson China was up & running by weren't they?) and I wouldn't go as far in crowing about it as my Sheraton II, but still, it's flawless, and the stock Epi P-90's are excellent. But the stock pots suck, the toggle switch is erratic...once I remedy those weaknesses I'll be completely happy with it.

...Epiphone has finally become, "The Smart Buy" for Gibson aficionados....

Absolutley true, as long as, like any other product, you hit on a good one and don't trip over over the occasional dog.

[just strum]

More & more "name" pro performers are seeing the cost-efficiency benefits of playing Epiphone's LP, SG, & ES models and pocketing the $K's difference.

A couple of the guys in this band used Epi's and actually went on to have a hit or two before fading away.

[Rocket]

Even though Gibson had control of Epiphone by then, those were made in Kalamazoo, MI prior to Gibson allocating Epi production over to Japan.

[just strum]

Even though Gibson had control of Epiphone by then, those were made in Kalamazoo, MI prior to Gibson allocating Epi production over to Japan.

Since you have been one to like Gibson for a number of years (an assumption on my part based on comments), what would you say are the differences between the two today when looking at

Dot/ES335

G400/SG

LP/LP

Is the primary difference electronic hardware (we all know about switches)?

[ZMAN]

I have one of the Elitist LP Customs and that guitar is absolutely amazing. It has the American 490, 498 pickup set tagged as Epis though. I measured them and their output is exactly the same as my Studio and Standard. It has the 60s neck and plays like a dream. I got it on a close out at MF for 799, including a case. I had it shipped to my daughter in Maine.
I may change the Sherri to 57s and 57 plus, but I don't think I will change the pots. I already put a Gibson switch in it.
This is the Elitist Les Paul Custom. Of course it was made in Japan.

[just strum]

Now why didn't my parents have the foresight to buy this for me in 1958

"The 335 was an important landmark in electric instrument technology. Its innovative body design was complemented by a slim, comfortable neck with excellent access to the upper frets. At a basic price of $267.50 it quickly became a best-seller, and has been in continuous production since 1958."

[marnold***]

Because, adjusted for inflation, the cost of that guitar would have been roughly $2000 in today's dollars.

[just strum]

Because, adjusted for inflation, the cost of that guitar would have been roughly $2000 in today's dollars.

But a 1958 335 would be worth a lot more today. I suppose I would have traded it for golf clubs or a car since I wouldn't have the foresight to know that it would become my most sought after guitar.

[Blaze]

But a 1958 335 would be worth a lot more today. I suppose I would have traded it for golf clubs or a car since I wouldn't have the foresight to know that it would become my most sought after guitar.

a 67 here , not too costy...Just hard to play on the side..

http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/msg/1079609796.html

[Fab4]

Is the primary difference electronic hardware (we all know about switches)?

Along with hardware, pickups and tonewood quality (which is hugely subjective and open to the wide variations in individual pieces of wood), one of the things Gibson hangs its hat on these day is nitro lacquer finishes.

I've heard a lot of debate on nitro vs. polyester finishes, and I have excellent guitars with either one. However, when I was shopping for a Gretsch just after Fender started producing them, the one I bought on sheer sound quality and resonance had a nitro finish...and that seemed to be the differentiating factor. All the comparable models with the polyester finish just seemed a bit dull in comparison. That may be more true on a fully-hollow 6120 than it would be for a solid Les Paul, I don't know.

I'm sold on nitro finished guitars, myself, even though the process is much more time consuming (and therefore costly) and the environmental considerations in manufacturing help push the price up, too. From what I've seen, heard and felt, if you have the cash, it's worth the investment.

That said, I think Gibson's prices ARE ridiculous. Me, I'd hold out for a year or so, if I had to have a '59 Reissue 335, and catch one used on eBay. My guess is that new Gibsons are like new cars - they depreciate fast.

[ZMAN]

I was with my friend the day he bought the 335 that I now own. It was in the summer of 1990. He paid just under 2000. Can. I thought that was a crazy price. He eventually counldn't get 1500 for it when he was selling it two years ago. Since he was a lifelong friend and was in ill health I paid him what he paid for it. I really didn't want the guitar to go to anyone else. I had it stored at my house for the better part of the 18 years he owned it.
Funny though I rarely played it until I actually owned it. A pretty crazy story but true.