Taylor Guitars Are Over Rated (imo)

[dpuckett]

Taylor Guitars Are Over Rated...

This is a true story.

February 2004, I walked into Grandma's Music in Albuquerque, NM . I had always wanted a Taylor . I liked the way they looked and thought they sounded amazing. My wife talked me into buying a 714CE with the new ES (this was the first year of Taylor 's "Expression System"). After I took it home and started to "get to know" this new guitar, I soon became quite disappointed with the "sound" of the ES. I thought it sounded "Nasally", like it was having phasing issues depending on where you were at on the fretboard. The sound was also very harsh and brittle sounding. (The guitar sounded amazing unplugged).

I also became aware of certain static pops when using the ES. I figured it was me or my set up, or perhaps the dry New Mexico weather? I lived with it. I called Taylor Customer Service and they recommended the TRS (tip ring sleeve) cable. That didn't help. I narrowed the "popping" down to my particular percussive playing style. When the guitar string came in contact with the 20th fret (the fret just above the string sensor) a static pop could be heard in the amplifier. This static pop could be produced again in about 20 seconds. Apparently a charge was being build up between the string sensor and the 20th fret. Once again I called Taylor Customer Service and reported my findings. They suggested several solutions, none of which worked. I figured I bought a lemon until I went back to Grandma's music store and tried all the other Taylor's that had the ES. They ALL POPPED!! I went across town to the other Taylor store and experimented on their Taylor guitars with the ES. They to all popped!! I started scaring customers away. They asked me to leave! I got on the internet and asked other Taylor ES owners to experiment with this phenomenon…many reported back with the exact same findings. I wrote Bob Taylor a letter and explained to him my situation and my experimentation procedures. He wrote back and asked me to please keep this under my hat, and that their engineers were aware of this and were on top of it. I replied that I wanted my money back. He offered me a custom built guitar instead. I said OK J. So I ordered a 714 (without the cutaway) with the older Fishman Blender.

About 2 months later my new Taylor 714 shows up !! Awesome!! Sounds great plugged in and unplugged! Finally!!! But wait…there is a problem. I couldn't adjust my action with the truss rod to correct the fret buzz. Hhmm ?? I take the guitar in to Grandma's Music and they look at it and point out that the neck is twisted. I call Taylor Customer Service and report to them what Grandma's said….they said send the guitar back….so I did. About 6 weeks later the guitar shows up on my doorstep with a new neck. YEAH !!! Finally !! I play this guitar for about a month or so and "lo and behold" if THIS NECK doesn't twist also !!!! EERRGG!!! This is getting old!!!!!! During this timeframe I was doing a gig when all of a sudden the guitar made this loud bang and I lost my tuning…just out of the blue???? I retuned and finished the gig. I called Taylor Customer Service once again (I'm on a first name basis with these guys now) and tell them about this neck being twisted also. They said send it back…so I did.

A few days after the guitar arrives back at the Taylor factory, I get a call saying that "the neck is indeed twisted and that one of the bracings is broke??" (I remembered back to that night when the guitar lost it's tuning). They're asking me, "What are you doing with this guitar ??? I'm like, "NOTHING?!?!" So they fix the guitar and put on the third neck.

After about a full year, I finally have a Taylor that I can play. This current neck is not perfect mind you. I can point out a small twist…but to be honest with you, I'm sick and tired of dealing with it…and with Taylor in general. I'm pretty sure they're tired of me also. I'll eventually sell this guitar on EBAY.

I'm sure that now the bugs in that first Expression System's design have been fixed. I have experimented with some of the newer guitars and have not seen this problem lately. If you have a Taylor with the Expression System and you want to give it a try to see if your guitar exhibits this problem, plug it in and set the amp/PA to a normal listening volume and simply push one of your guitar strings down until it touches the 20th fret and listen…you'll know right then and there…

Personally I think Taylor's are over rated. I have a 1995 Martin 000 and have never even had to make a neck adjustment. What a contrast.

[vroomery]

Taylor's have definitely lost something since they went to the ES. I have a taylor 714-ce and I really enjoy the guitar. The ES however is far from natural sounding. If you know what you're doing you can eq it into a decent sound, but it is still nothing like it sounds unplugged. I haven't had to deal with Taylor for customer service because I haven't had any problems, but I am thinking at some point about getting something else put in. For the record. This specific guitar was found after a good sized search in which I play many of the same models at many different stores.

[hubberjub***]

You have a nicer Taylor than I do. Mine is a 310ce. I am not familiar with the ES system but I would never judge an acoustic guitar by it's pickup. That's not to say that I love my Taylor. I have an Alvarez that was made in Japan in 1980 that is a copy of a Martin D-28 that sounds much better acoustically than my Taylor.

[markb]

I'm no fan of either the necks or the sound of Taylor acoustics. I put them both in the "thin" category. As for amplified sound, I don't think there's a system around that will get you the unplugged sound of your fine acoustic guitar via a pickup. The K&K Pure system might come close.

[Tone2TheBone]

Martin all the way my friend! Good to see you post here 'bout time.

[street music]

As for plugged sound on acoustic-electric IMHO it would be Takamine all the way! I have listened to a lot of different brands being played on stage and for my ears the sound of an Takamine just has a great tone . As for other choices in the plugged department Epi or Gibson has about the same I have heard from the high dollar Martin. Now when you just get down to an acoustic you open up a whole can of brands depending on the tone you like. :

[markb]

As for plugged sound on acoustic-electric IMHO it would be Takamine all the way! I have listened to a lot of different brands being played on stage and for my ears the sound of an Takamine just has a great tone . As for other choices in the plugged department Epi or Gibson has about the same I have heard from the high dollar Martin. Now when you just get down to an acoustic you open up a whole can of brands depending on the tone you like. :

When I do sound for open mics I find Takamines need far less work on eq than other brands, Gibson and Martin included. To be honest I like the sound of the factory fitted Fishman Natural in my J45 but can't kid myself it's anything like the sound of the guitar.

[oldguy]

Martin all the way my friend! Good to see you post here 'bout time.

(I invited Del, Rob.....thought he ought to get in on the fun.)

[just strum]

(I invited Del, Rob.....thought he ought to get in on the fun.)

Was that his introduction?

[wingsdad]

A prime factor in the 'Taylor sound' -- unplugged -- is that Taylor's tops are by design sliced thinner than most manufacturers' solid-tops. While this allows for freer vibration of the top, it also diminishes the strength (power) of the top's low frequency vibes as it enhances the mids and highs.

It's this top design and tonic character that made Taylors so popular for recording. When recording a steel-string acoustic, the top is the 'main ingredient', since it's where you aim your mic(s). Getting a true natural tone reproduced to is a challenge, especially digitally. Taylor's top simplifies the issue.

Conversely, or conseequently, Taylors going direct rather than mic'd can sound thin & brittle because an Under Saddle Transducer (UST) relies picking up the top's vibrations. Thin in, Thin Out. Or, as the saying goes, Crap In, Crap Out.

Therein lies the challenge with a Taylor: the preamps -- onboard the guitar, and of the mixing board or amp it's fed to -- that the transducer's signal get fed to have to be skillfully worked to get anything close to a warm & natural tone.

So it's up to the skill of the sound or recording engineer to rise to the challenge. Most don't, because they fail to recognize and understand the Taylor top factor. A weak engineer can make a $3,000 Taylor sound like a $50Toys R' Us special.

Besides the sound issue, the thin Taylor tops are inordinately susceptible to cracking. Made close to the Pacific Ocean, regardless of how 'climate-controlled' the Taylor factory is, when you take a Taylor to a particularly dry climate -- like the New Mexico or SoCal dessert (where I live), if you don't religiously tend to careful 45-55% RH monitoring and maintenance, you'll eventually have a brittle-topped Taylor that will sound even thinner than it would in say, more humid zones like New England, the Pac Northwest, Tennessee or Florida.

If you read Taylor's Warranty carefully (go to their website), you'll find the stern warnings about caring for the humidity and how if you don't, you void the warranty.

Interestingly enough, Taylor makes a big deal about attending to humidity on their site and in their 'Wood & Steel' magazine. Our lawyer Fretters will understand what that's all about: fair upfront warning, in writing and video. You don't heed it, you're the negligent owner. Tough cookies if the top cracks.

Good luck dealing with Talor Customer 'Support' when your top cracks.

We have a Taylor dealer here in town. He sells them OK. Many (Taylor a/e's) end up getting traded in to the Takamine/Ibanez/Godin-Seagull/Tacoma dealer -- the store I shop. Either because they disappointed the owner with their plugged in Barney Fife sound, or their top developed hairline cracks and they found themselves SOL with Taylor on a warranty claim attempt. So the Taylors end up selling as damaged used goods. They get jack on their trade. Better off turning to e-sleaze-bay to unload them on someone who wouldn't know a crack in a top unless they could stick their finger thru it like Thomas the Apostle.

I have 2 (Japanese) Takamines. Santa Fe series. By design, Tak's preamps are modular (not sure on the G-series Korean and Chinese Taks). Takamine has about 4 preamps...the ultimate of which is the 'Cool Tube', a tube preamp. All can be swapped, as simple popping a tab and pulling the unit, and pulling 2 plugs & jacks. It's one reason Tak's preamps are up on the upper bout next to the heel. A little tougher to read the controls than if it was mounted like most others, in the waist of the upper side. But its' in the stiffest section of the side, interfering less with any side vibes.

[sunvalleylaw]

A prime factor in the 'Taylor sound' -- unplugged -- is that Taylor's tops are by design sliced thinner than most manufacturers' solid-tops. While this allows for freer vibration of the top, it also diminishes the strength (power) of the top's low frequency vibes as it enhances the mids and highs.

You and I have discussed this, but I guess this is why I prefer rosewood/spruce Martins. I like that throbbing, low end that almost vibrates you. : Nothing against Taylors or those who prefer them, just not my sound.

[sunvalleylaw]

I guess for me, I like the solo style artist type guitars in acoustics, and I like a particular sound. A Martin D-18 is supposed to work in a mix better according to many. Still not my thing. So for my taste, Taylors are not my thing. Does that make them overrated? Not so sure about that, if folks know what they are getting.

[GuitarRaven]

Taylor guitars are overrated. Oh yes!!!! Finally someone speaks the truth. I am so sick of "Taylor this" and "Taylor that". Taylor guitars are simply this: ungodly overpriced and overrated. People say, "Well, they are so popular they must be doing something right." The fact is, Taylor has spent more money on advertising than any other guitar company I have seen. They put them in the hands of stars and pay them to play their guitars. I hear this all the time: "Taylor is doing things with guitars that no one else is doing." Really, can a person who knows anything about the High end guitar industry honestly believe this statement. One thing I have to say, I congradulate Bob Taylor for making a CNC guitar and actually getting a custom price for it. It's the advertising. I have been in the guitar business for over a decade. I have sold retail everything from Lakewood to Larrivee to Taylor to Lowden.....I just couldn't sell the Taylors because I had other guitars in there that were better than taylors and were only a fraction of the price. I have also built guitars handmade. So when people say "Taylor is doing things with guitars that no one else is doing" I laugh, because there are thousands of high end guitars out there, and a lot of them are doing things way more innovative than Taylor.
Check this out: When Breedlove introduced their Crafter-made Atlas series, I sold them. The Breedlove Atlas Solid Spruce concert cutaway with solid rosewood back, retailed then for around a $1000 (they've gone up since then, just like everything else.) street price was around $800. I had these on the wall right next to $3500 Taylors, and my Taylor sales started to go way down. The Breedlove Atlas was just as good (In my opinion better) as the Taylors, and were $2500 less. Niether guitars were handmade, although crafter uses more handmade elements than Taylor does.
And this phrase makes me laugh too: "With Taylors new neck design, they are the only guitar with a perfectly straight neck." Are you serious. Yes, they are the only ones with a straight neck in their class, compared to Takamine (Japanese Takamines are better than taylors) Ibanez, Gibson and some of the other household mass produced lines. They bag on the Dovetail neck joint and say that their neck design is better. Sure it's better than some of the dovetails that have been CNC'd. But a real master of the Dovetail can make a perfectly straight neck. (Check out Yairi's, the new Simon and patrick, although the S&P arent't really a dovetail.) I'm not saying that Dovetail is always the best way to go. I have seen dozens of different bolt on neck designs that are fantastic, and even a few "set neck" designs that have proven to be just fine.
I was pretty sad when Larrivee opened a factory in california, and left only their 03 series to be made in Canada, because I knew their prices would skyrocket. And they did. Look, I'm as patriotic as the next guy, and I like to support US businesses, but the canadian made larrivee's, I'm sorry, they were just better than the US made Larrivee's. Of course, labor is a little less expensive in canada, but the people who worked in thier canadian factory just seemed to make better guitars, and at much better prices. If you can stamp Made in USA on your guitar, you can sometimes get four times the money for them. But think about this: (and I am NOT nessesarily talking about taylor) The next time you say "I bought a Taylor, Martin, Gibson, whatever, I am supporting the US economy, so I don't mind spending a bit extra. But think about this. By law, you can legally put Made in USA on any product as long as the finishing stages of production are done in the US. That is US law!! (This next example is purely hypothetical, and does not nessesarily apply to the guitar named): If you walked into a guitar store and saw a Gibson on the wall, and on the back of the neck it said "Woods cut and shaped in Korea, pickups wound in china, hardware made in china, neck to body construction and finish in USA. Would you pay $3500 for it. Probably not. Now, does this deminish the quality of the guitar, well usually not. But the loose law does allow for a higher price tag. So just how much of the money you spent on a High dollar US Guitar actually stayed in the US, and how much went elsewhere. Now like I said before, I'm not necessarily implicating taylor or gibson in this scenario, but I do know for a fact that a lot of US made guitars actually have some, and in some cases most, of the work done elswhere. They are sent to the US for final stages of production and BOOM. You pay thousands MORE. You think you are supporting the US economy, and you are, but not even close to what you would think.

[street music]

If you want a great acoustic at a good price either buy Carvin or Takamine you will be glad you did.

[Eric***]

If you want a great acoustic at a good price either buy Carvin or Takamine you will be glad you did.

I've been eying those Carvin acoustics for a long time.

Which Takamine models are nicer? It seems like they span quite a range of prices and what not, so I'm never sure what the good models are, aside from looking at what's expensive.

[wingsdad]

...Which Takamine models are nicer? It seems like they span quite a range of prices and what not, so I'm never sure what the good models are, aside from looking at what's expensive.

Taks are orgagized in series, with the higher end series made in Japan and thus 'expensive', commensurate with the craftsmanship and materials. So these are the 'nicest'. Street's Tak is one of their newer models value-priced models from the Nouveau Series introduced a year or so ago with a $1,299 MSRP, which translates at a typical 30% discount to around $900, new.

I've owned 2 from the Santa Fe series, both previously owned and both of which I've posted long ago here. I traded one mid-last year for $750 in 2 guitars and some stuff. My other, a '93 and thier first ever Santa Fe series model, just sold. I had it on consignment at my Local GAS Station and it only took 2 weeks for someone to snag it. It fetched $850 cash.

Those would be in the 'nicer' class.

If you're willing to spend $350-$700 for a new one, then look at the Takamine G Series. The lower priced ones are made in China, the higher end in Korea.

[Spudman***]

I don't know. I've played some really nice Taylors. Unfortunately they were way out of my price range, but they had every feature I could ask for including tone and playability. Some Taylor models may be overrated, but on the whole I think they are a well crafted instrument.

[Commodore 64***]

My wife got me a Taylor 110 for our 10th wedding anniversary in 2009. The guitar was picked out by a family friend (longtime guitar player). He played 20+ guitars (many much more expensive) at our local store and told my wife that the Taylor 110 was the only one he'd consider buying.

My opinion is barely worth the time to read, but the guitar sounds good, is ALWAYS in tune, and plays really easy. I have not played one that I like better, although this is not saying much.

[MAXIFUNK]

For a non acoustic guitar player this was very enlightening!