am I playing the right guitar?

[coeng]

Hi there....newbie to the forum and guitar playing.

My wife bought me a guitar (Yamaha F-310) six years ago for my 30th birthday and ever since then I have probably picked it up a dozen times or so, struggled to learn consistently for a week or two, only to pickup some house projects and quickly forget what I learned.

Well now I've decided to take a more serious approach. The first thing I did recently was to replace the steel strings with nylon strings. One of my biggest obstacles every time I picked up the guitar over the years is that my fingers start to kill me after 2-3 nights of playing due to the fact that they aren't constantly being calloused up. My assumption was that nylon strings are gentler than steel strings and so far I think that is holding true as my fingers are in better shape after a few days of playing than they would be with steel strings.

Last night my father-in-law was playing around with my guitar and commented on how narrow the neck is....he said I should try playing on a true classical guitar. Until then I never knew what a classical guitar was...I just assumed all acoustic guitars were the same. Secondly, I didn't know that neck widths varied in guitars and are especially wide on classical guitars (which mine is not...or at least is a wannabe because of the nylon strings I just put on it).

That's when the lightbulb in my head turned on.....I always find myself struggling to play notes & chords cleanly, awkwardly contorting my wrist to make sure each finger make contacts with a single string. I'm a big guy (6'3" 260 lbs.) with big clumsy fingers. Eventually as my wrist gets sore from being contorted my fingers make contact with neighboring strings and everything just starts to sound bad. Perhaps the solution to my problem is that I should be learning on a classical guitar with a wide neck instead.

Does this sound like something I should consider? If so, what would be a good classical starter guitar with a wide neck under $200. I don't want to play an electric guitar because the only time I have to practice is at night when my two kids (both under 5) are asleep, so I have to keep the volume down.

Another question I have is that I noticed Yamaha makes a 1/2 size and 3/4 size guitar. What advantage does not using a full size guitar give?

Thanks!

[ibanezjunkie]

well, (this is my opinion, and probably mine alone) i always tell people that its easier to learn on electric guitars, because they are usually smaller bodied that acoustics or classicals and the necks are longer. also the body of electric guitars allow upper fret access.

but if you think a classical guitar would be right for you, check around music shops or online stores based in your country/continent/state.

in addition, half and quater sized guitars are usually for small kids starting out playing at a young age, when their hands cant grasp a full sized guitar neck.

hope this helps

[bigG]

Welcome to the club, coeng! Great place, nice people.

Sounds like you're set on getting a classical nylon string to me. The fretboards are considerably wider on a classical, so from your description, easier for your hand and your fingertips. Go for it!

And, I second what IbanezJ said.

[coeng]

Thanks. Since I've only ever owned a Yamaha, does anyone think I would be better with anything other than the Yamaha. Currently the Yamaha CG101A, Ibanez G100, Fender CDN90 fall in my price range.

[bigG]

I've never cared for Yamaha guitars, but that's just me personally. Not familiar w Ibanez acoustics, but they are making some top notch electrics! Don't know abt the Fender, either. Try to check 'em out if you can.

[Geraint Jones]

Hello Coeng , I too had a similar problem when I started playing, having fingers like pig`s tits . In fact it was so bad for me to even change chords i had to stop strumming and use my right hand to move my left into the next chord position as my fingers tended to lock up .For some sadomachistic reason I stuck with it and after a few months got pretty fluid with chord changes as the strength grew in my fingers . I had a Yamaha as well but with steel strings , the problem I found with classic guitars was that you had to have a good technique to get any good sounds out of them . Get some extra light guage acoustic strings and prepare to suffer for a while .

[Viking Power]

Hello Coeng , I too had a similar problem when I started playing, having fingers like pig`s tits . In fact it was so bad for me to even change chords i had to stop strumming and use my right hand to move my left into the next chord position as my fingers tended to lock up .For some sadomachistic reason I stuck with it and after a few months got pretty fluid with chord changes as the strength grew in my fingers . I had a Yamaha as well but with steel strings , the problem I found with classic guitars was that you had to have a good technique to get any good sounds out of them . Get some extra light guage acoustic strings and prepare to suffer for a while .

[ibanezjunkie]

I've never cared for Yamaha guitars, but that's just me personally. Not familiar w Ibanez acoustics, but they are making some top notch electrics! Don't know abt the Fender, either. Try to check 'em out if you can.

i perosnally love the ibanez semihollowbodies. fender acoustics are good for beginners i believe. i wouldnt recommend buying a squier or any cheap junk like that, because you'll find playing them alot harder. i decided to put out £400 on my ibanez because i got sick of strumming no-name guitars. so much easier to play if you have a better quality guitar.

[Rocket]

Here's the problem with classical guitars: anything short of precise, stellar playing sounds like high wind through mini-blinds.

[ibanezjunkie]

Here's the problem with classical guitars: anything short of precise, stellar playing sounds like high wind through mini-blinds.

i heard some chick guitarist playing a grade 5 song in some concert i was in last year with my band. even she sounded crap, playing a crap classical fairly badly.

[player***]

Hello Coeng , I too had a similar problem when I started playing, having fingers like pig`s tits . In fact it was so bad for me to even change chords i had to stop strumming and use my right hand to move my left into the next chord position as my fingers tended to lock up .For some sadomachistic reason I stuck with it and after a few months got pretty fluid with chord changes as the strength grew in my fingers . I had a Yamaha as well but with steel strings , the problem I found with classic guitars was that you had to have a good technique to get any good sounds out of them . Get some extra light guage acoustic strings and prepare to suffer for a while .

Welcome board Coeng : I second this unless you are dead set on playing nylon which you can do at a later date after getting an electric down.too many brands to even start naming good ones.electric and/or classcal.let us know which one you decide on then maybe we can point you in the right direction.too bad you do not know anyone that already plays or an instructor.either would put you light years ahead or at least ahead anyway

[markb]

Yamaha FGs do have very narrow nuts. If the nut is cut high, that'll make things difficult too.
If you keep this guitar I'd follow Geraint's advice to go with lighter acoustic strings until your hand strength increases. If you really want a classical though I'd go for it now. There's no point suffering with an instrument you don't want to play.
Don't practice beyond the pain barrier, it'll put you off in the long run and may cause problems like tendonitis down the line. Work up to it a little at a time. It'll come. Some lessons might help with your hand position and make things easier.

[Robert****]

GJ, that part about the "pork knockers" made me laugh too!

[60's guy]

Hi there....newbie to the forum and guitar playing.

My wife bought me a guitar (Yamaha F-310) six years ago for my 30th birthday and ever since then I have probably picked it up a dozen times or so, struggled to learn consistently for a week or two, only to pickup some house projects and quickly forget what I learned.

Well now I've decided to take a more serious approach. The first thing I did recently was to replace the steel strings with nylon strings. One of my biggest obstacles every time I picked up the guitar over the years is that my fingers start to kill me after 2-3 nights of playing due to the fact that they aren't constantly being calloused up. My assumption was that nylon strings are gentler than steel strings and so far I think that is holding true as my fingers are in better shape after a few days of playing than they would be with steel strings.

Last night my father-in-law was playing around with my guitar and commented on how narrow the neck is....he said I should try playing on a true classical guitar. Until then I never knew what a classical guitar was...I just assumed all acoustic guitars were the same. Secondly, I didn't know that neck widths varied in guitars and are especially wide on classical guitars (which mine is not...or at least is a wannabe because of the nylon strings I just put on it).

That's when the lightbulb in my head turned on.....I always find myself struggling to play notes & chords cleanly, awkwardly contorting my wrist to make sure each finger make contacts with a single string. I'm a big guy (6'3" 260 lbs.) with big clumsy fingers. Eventually as my wrist gets sore from being contorted my fingers make contact with neighboring strings and everything just starts to sound bad. Perhaps the solution to my problem is that I should be learning on a classical guitar with a wide neck instead.

Does this sound like something I should consider? If so, what would be a good classical starter guitar with a wide neck under $200. I don't want to play an electric guitar because the only time I have to practice is at night when my two kids (both under 5) are asleep, so I have to keep the volume down.

Another question I have is that I noticed Yamaha makes a 1/2 size and 3/4 size guitar. What advantage does not using a full size guitar give?

Thanks!

Putting nylon strings on the Yamaha F-310 is a no no from the get go. The guitar wasn't designed to be set up for or accept nylon string guages.

Considering that you have large hands a guitar with a wider neck is definetly something you should consider.

I'm not convinced, however, that a nylon string classical guitar is your best choice because you will become too accustomed to the ease of playing on those nylon strings.

Find yourself a wider neck steel 6 string guitar and earn those callouses on your fingers. It's get easier on your fingers as time goes by.

[Kazz]

For the record...I have fairly thick fingers too...and the Seagull S6+ has about the widest neck I have seen on a standard acoustic. The Washburn D46 has a pretty wide neck too.

[wingsdad]

Coeng, I'm just pulling out a few points here to address with suggestions:

... One of my biggest obstacles every time I picked up the guitar over the years is that my fingers start to kill me after 2-3 nights of playing due to the fact that they aren't constantly being calloused up. My assumption was that nylon strings are gentler than steel strings and so far I think that is holding true as my fingers are in better shape after a few days of playing than they would be with steel strings....

Even nylon strings come in various degrees of tension ('stiffness'), from 'soft' to 'hard'. And at that, you still have 3 wound/wrapped strings. Others here wisely suggest lighter gauge steel strings. look for '10-47's', a/k/a 'extra-lights', such as D'addario EJ-15). You can also get them with wound string ground 'flat' (smoother), as with D'addario FlatTops), and they'll be as easy on your fingers as nylons. But I'll suggest right off the bat to you that it's not just a matter of building callouses on your fingertips, but of building finger strength. More on this in a bit...

... I didn't know that neck widths varied in guitars and are especially wide on classical guitars ...

Most (not all) steel string acoustics will have a nut width of about 1 5/8" (1.63"). But some are wider (like the Seagull mentioned by Kazz), at 1 3/4" or even 1 7/8" (I have a Takamine EAC38C with that nut width). Classicals are typically 2" wide at the nut (i.e., my Washburn NV100C), but Ibanez and Yamaha, just to name 2, make some in the 1 3/4"-1 7/8" range. The narrower classical nuts are aimed at either smaller-handed or occasional players.

Put a ruler to your Yamaha's nut. With your big fingers and hands, a little wider string spacing, at least as you're starting out, can help you to finger cleanly, but....

.....I always find myself struggling to play notes & chords cleanly, awkwardly contorting my wrist to make sure each finger make contacts with a single string. ... Eventually as my wrist gets sore from being contorted my fingers make contact with neighboring strings and everything just starts to sound bad. Perhaps the solution to my problem is that I should be learning on a classical guitar with a wide neck instead....

Back to finger strength...and wrist & forearm strength. You can go out and buy hand and grip exercisers for $10-$15...but don't waste your money. Bet a tennis ball, a handball, or a foam stress ball. Keep it near your reading or TV chair. While you sit idle, palm the ball in your left hand and squeeze it, pump it. Lighten your grip some and squeeze with your fingertips only. Eventually, try 'rolling' it in your hand. You'll build strength in your hands, wrist and forearm as well as strength and dexterity in your fingers.

IMO, You need that more than you need callouses.

...what would be a good classical starter guitar with a wide neck under $200. I don't want to play an electric guitar because the only time I have to practice is at night when my two kids (both under 5) are asleep, so I have to keep the volume down. ...

You have a much better shot at finding a decent steel-string acoustic with a wider nut in that price range and you'll have a more versatile guitar that will stand up to chord strumming and playing a bit harder than a nylon string will.

As for an electric...a headphone-jack equipped little amp or or 'pocket' amp will allow you to play in silence. But the bigger issue for you might be neck nut width, and here, you'll have a tough time finding one with a nut wider than 1 5/8" if you need that.

Unlike many here, I strongly suggest starting with an acoustic and moving later to an electric. Two reasons: (1) You'll build hand & finger strength faster & better on an acoustic, while an electric will 'spoil' you into 'soft' hands and (2) an acoustic will be 'what you play is what you hear' and you won't be tethered by a cord to some kind of amp like you will with an electric, which, furthermore, can drive you nutty fussing with getting 'good tone'. You'll be distracted from concentrating on learning how to play properly and thinking more about how to make things sound 'right'.

Good luck on your journey.

[coeng]

Putting nylon strings on the Yamaha F-310 is a no no from the get go. The guitar wasn't designed to be set up for or accept nylon string guages.

Why do you say that? It seems to play OK, but then again I don't have an ear for these things yet. This I assume is acquired with time and experience.

As for all the other advice all I have to say is thanks for making a tough decision even tougher to make. No, but seriously, its all good info and I'm glad I took the time to post and followup before going out and buying something that wouldn't offer me any advantage.

Luckily my father-in-law has a classical that I can borrow and practice with for the short term until I make a decision on whether to buy a classical or go back to the F-310 with steel strings). Its probably the case (as a lot of you have pointed out) that I need to work on finger strength (something I never considered) and that will eventually make playing the F-310 with the steel strings a bit easier. I'll also get one of those stress balls and work on finger strength too.

A few questions about the lighter gauge steel strings...
who makes these?
how are they easier on the fingers (I would have assumed the exact opposite...smaller diameter means more pressure )
do they sound different?
how do I identify it by looking at the package or when asking for them at the store?
how expensive are they?

The original steel strings I had came with the guitar...The nylon ones I just bought cost about $8 and they were the only set I ever bought so I know nothing about strings yet.

About the life of guitar strings...when I removed the steel strings I just chucked them without thinking about it? Could they have been re-used? What is the life span of steel and nylon strings?

[Ro3b]

You might try a set of silk & steel or silk & bronze strings. The wound strings have a layer of silk filaments; they're a little easier on the fingers than standard wound strings. I've used GHS silk & bronze mandolin strings for years.

[Kazz]

Coeng....my guess is the reason one would not restring a steel string guit with nylon strings is that the necks require a certain amount of tension to stay straight....the nylon would not allow the same tensile strength as the steel.