Epiphone vs Gibson

[MagicBaller21]

Hey, I've always wanted a Les Paul really bad, and I was wondering if it is true that when you get a Gibson, you pay extra for the name on the headstock. I've heard a lot of people say that Epiphones are just as good; and even better, they're a heck of a lot cheaper. Is it just a matter of finding a well made/good sounding Epiphone? Or is this just a myth? I've never really gone out and played either, because the price scares me away... I'd like to know if there is still hope for us budget players, or if I'll have to live a little less luxuriously in the next few months, in order to save up .

PS Which type of Les Paul do you recommend (Custom, Standard, Standard Plus, Classic, etc.)

[Tone2TheBone]

I think Epiphones are nice looking guitars. From the looks of them they look well built. Some people really get "into" the details of "oh this Epi Les Paul is the elite model and it's better than the Tokai Love Rocks Les Paul" or "the standard Epis aren't made as well as the Tokais" or whatever. I'll bet you most of us wouldn't really care about the tiny details...and then some of us MIGHT. Overall though I think they look well made. I haven't played one in an amp but I have picked one up and played it unplugged. Don't know how the pickups sound but thats easily remedied. I'd change them all out anyway since I love my Seymour Duncan Pearly Gates pickup. Even if the pots inside were crappy I'd swap those out too if I had to. And the tuners if they weren't Grovers. Thats kinda the fun of having a less expensive guitar to mess with. You'd still save a bunch off the full retail price on a Gibson even if you changed all those things.

I had the same intentions when I bought my Made in Mexico Fender Stratocaster.



I swapped out the pups with Fender Custom Shop Texas Specials and did the treble bleed mod. I thought about the Callaham tremelo block but for all intents and purposes my Strat sustains well and sounds like heaven. Why do I want to change that?

I'd consider an Epi definately. I'd love to have an awesome tiger maple top with a nice honey burst finish.

[Guitar-Chris]

)

I've never really gone out and played either, because the price scares me away... I'd like to know if there is still hope for us budget players, or if I'll have to live a little less luxuriously in the next few months, in order to save up .

I don't own an Epiphone, but we have e really big music store here:

musik-produktiv.de

So, i had the option to test nearly every modell of Gibson and Epiphon. What is the result? Hm, there are good Gibsons and bad ones. The same thing with Epiphone. And some Epiphone sound very great. Though, I'm not really a Les Paul Fan (I love Fenders...) but If i would like to have one of these i would buy an Epiphone after testing and looking for a good one.

Maybe some Gibsons sound a little more colourful, but so few diferences for 2000 Euro?

[Christian]

If you want to buy an Epiphone : Les Paul Custom flame top

If you want to buy an Gibson : Les Paul Standard


I own both Epiphone and Gibson Les Paul

Honestly.......Epiphone are really right on the money. they're good looking and they don't lose their charm over the years.

My Gibson Les paul is worning out faster than my Epiphone. I have cracks everywhrere in the finish especialy the head stock and the back of the neck.....my epiphone doesn't.

Yes My Gibson Sound way much better than my epiphone but who cares !!!!!!!! My epiphone plays good as well........Pick up can be change anytime (200.00 or less and it's done)

but refretting an epiphone (between 200-400$) is not very interessting when you think of the cost of the guitar .....but refretting a gibson is more accurate for a 2500$ tag price.

what you do you do with the guitar.....play live 7 days a week or 2 days a week in your living room.

spending 2500.00$ (and more for a LP Custom) is not a good move for somebody who plays for its own fun. but for a working musician that makes sence.

I bought my Gibson after having my Epiphone for almost 4 years, it was like a step that felt natural......but the transition was great !!!!

in other words....you pay for quality control. and what you will do with it. Having a Epiphone is as good as having a Gibson. keep in mind a guitar is guitar, you be able to play the same songs on it........your creativity is what's matters

Rock n Roll !!!!!

my gear:Gibson Les Paul standard 1996, Epiphone Les Paul standard 1999, Squier Telecaster standard 2004, Esprit Stratocaster 1992, Art & Luterie cutaway 1998 & Godin BG 2003

[Nelskie]

Hey guys - just so you know - there's an Epiphone thread that I started a few days back under the "Other Brands" section of the forum. Initially, I was a bit hesitant to post Epiphone-related info under the "Gibson" section of the forum, even being fully aware of their close association to each other. However, now that our moderator Tone has posted pix of his beautiful 3TS Fender Strat on this thread, I see that my concerns were unfounded. Such a joy to be part of this friendly collection of guitar enthusiasts. I'm happy to see that there are Epi players and fans involved with this forum.

[MagicBaller21]

yeah, the reason im asking, is because i want a guitar that has humbuckers. les pauls have always looked sexy, and im not too big on spending a bunch on my guitars.

[r_a_smith3530]

Wow, I can't believe that I didn't notice this thread before. This is actually one of my pet subjects.

First, let me say that I have never owned an Epi Les Paul but have owned two Gibson Les Paul's. My first, a mid 70's Custom, was in my opinion, an absolutely horrid instrument. Why did I buy it then? At the time, the price was right, and I was seduced by the name and the myth. That is what I believe sells Gibson's today! OK, so on to my current Les Paul, an '84 Studio. It is quite the opposite of the Custom, a beautiful instrument. It doesn't weigh a ton, although it's no lightweight either; that's the way of Les Paul's. It stays in tune, and it has such a beautiful voice.

Now, on to the Epi vs. Gibby thing. At the time I bought my Studio, I'd had my eye on a gorgeous custom-built Warmoth parts strat. It sounded great and looked fantastic, but I was hesitating, because I already had strat tones in my arsenal via my G&L S-500. Then my eye fell on this really sharp looking Les Paul, an Epiphone anniversary model. Although used, it was absolutely mint! It sounded great, both unplugged and when connected to an amp. It looked great too, almost like a Custom, but with differences. I was just about to buy it when, for some reason, my hand fell upon my Studio. There was something about it that drew me in. Well, I ended up, after about a week's worth of deliberation (what a week that was - nervous that someone else would buy one or the other!), with the Gibson. It cost me a bit more, but today that is OK. Both were in my reach financially. In the days since, it has turned into a REALLY beautiful guitar. The Epi would have stayed stock, and I probably would not have been as happy down the road. Does that mean it, or Epi's in general are bad? Why certainly not.

The early Les Paul's, the ones which became famous in the hands of players with names like Clapton, Page, Beck and others, were fabulous guitars. When it comes to the late Fifties Les Paul's, there probably was not a bad one in the bunch. Good wood was plentiful, and these guitars were being built by craftsmen. It was a different time, but these are the guitars that made Gibson's reputation. When people buy a Les Paul today, it is the sound of those instruments that they are trying to capture. It is the essence of rock!

Today's Gibson's are not the same guitar. Consistently good wood has become more scarce, and today, the corporation's bottom line profitablility must take precedence. Today, I would not buy a Gibson Les Paul without playing it first. Why? Because there is such variation in quality from one instrument to the next. One can be a dud, while the one right next to it sings!

Now, I can forgive inconsistent quality in a guitar costing two or three hundred dollars. It's understandable. I can even do so, to an extent, for a guitar in the five to six hundred dollar range. When I am spending upwards of fifteen hundred dollars, and quite possibly more than twenty-five hundred, every last instrument should be absolutely stellar! That is not what I have found to be the case with Gibson today. Nor has it been the case since the Norlin days.

In the days since the old Standards of Page, Clapton, Beck and others, the top end of guitars hasn't improved all that much. We can probably build as good of a guitar, at less cost (when the dollar value is adjusted for the time), but it doesn't get much better. What has changed is the bottom end. Lower priced guitars are just so much better these days than they were back in the Fifties (or 60's and 70's for that matter). The computer has given us that, as well as advances in finish technology. Today you can build a damn good $500.00 guitar!

So, which is better, Gibson or Epiphone? That depends entirely upon your outlook. For me, if price is close enough, and the quality is there on either, I would go for the Gibson. Yeah, it's probably just that name thing, although I do like the mustache headstock better. As the price valley begins to widen however, the Epiphone begins to look more and more attractive, and that is only increased by the fact that I might have to go through a number of Gibson's to find one I loved.

I'm not a rich man, and I'm no rock star. I don't have thousands of dollars to spend on a single guitar. For me, a two thousand dollar (or more) guitar would be a real stretch.

If I was buying new today, I would look at the Gibson faded models, but I would give equal time to Epiphone as well. Of course, in actuality, if I was buying a guitar today, it would probably be used, and I would look at both Gibson and Epiphone, but I would not stop there. I would definitely want to think about Orville's and Tokai's as well, for these can far surpass the quality of either a modern Gibson or Epiphone.

Anyway, that's my $.02. For your enjoyment, I've posted another pic of my '84 Les Paul Studio.

[Tone2TheBone]

Rob,

I just bought an Epi LP Standard Plus. I too have a Gibson Les Paul Studio (1986) in Alpine White (which has aged to a cream color). I agree with what you've said. I've owned several Gibsons, one was stolen, one traded for a Marshall cabinet and one sold. I also had an SG which was traded for other equipment. I'm down to my only remaining Studio and for good reason. I loved the sound and feel of that particular guitar and the neck is AWESOME. Much different the other necks on the other LPs I had. I actually sold it once to a good friend of mine (man was I broke or what) then after realizing how stupid that was I asked him if he really liked the guitar or not...he agreed to sell it BACK to me. Thats how much I love this guitar. I think you understand the reasons why Rob. Anyway yeah if you're going to buy a Gibson, play them and find the magic one because they're ALL DIFFERENT.



I cannot believe the quality of this new Epiphone. The bookmatched flame top is perfectly matched with excellent grain. Even though they say it's veneer it looks beautiful and I can't tell the difference in playing it over a Gibson with a thicker bookmatched top. You're right in that you can get really good quality nowadays for a decent price. They're making them a hell of a lot better than they used to thats for sure. I for one am proud to own this Epiphone because it represents quality at a good and fair price. I would also consider other Epi models as well based on what I've read from people who talk about them. Epiphone is making some really good stuff these days.

[warren0728]

i'm pondering the epi vs. gibson thing right now....and partly for a completely different reason! We are thinking of taking our summer vacation with the kids to nyc and my 9 year old son really wants to go see less paul at the iridium. I don't own a les paul but am thinking of getting one to have les sign (he stays after the show to sign autograhs and talk to everyone who wants to.

Sooooo.....do i spend the big bucks on a true gibson les paul or settle for the budget epi les paul. Since i know the guitar will be signed and personalized (to warren, etc) i am leaning towards a true gibson....

crazy reason to buy a guitar....i know but i have to do it! Wished i would have had one the first time i saw him....and since he is at least 90 this will probably be the last time i see him.

thoughts?

ww

[Tone2TheBone]

This sounds like a once in a life time thing Warren and if I were you I'd have him sign my forehead and never wash it off!



Since your reason is for this special moment I really think you'd be happier for Les to sign a Gibson this way you'll have your "first Gibson" right off the bat and no matter how much you pay for it, it will be worth more with his autograph on it! If you have the opportunity....I say do it.

[warren0728]

the forhead things sound like a ...ahem....good idea! Last time i was there i got his pick and my ticket signed....see this thread:

http://www.thefret.net/showthread.ph...highlight=paul

I think if i can swing it i'll get a gibson for him to sign. Now i wonder what the best way would be to preserve his signature once i have it. Would like to have the body signed but if i had him sign the pickguard it might be easier to preserve.

ww

[MagicBaller21]

i dont know if ive posted this already, but im gonna post it again!

i played an epiphone g-400 (vintage i think) at my music shop a few weeks ago, and a gibson faded sg. to me, they didnt sound much different, the epiphone sounded just fine to me, and at $400 cheaper. i found out that day that i dont want an sg (because of the heavy neck and the body slipping off me while sitting down). and also, that id settle with the epiphone, even if i had enough money for the gibson.

after many more weeks of trying to decide on a good humbucker guitar. i stumbled upon the agile line of guitars. ive always liked the looks of les pauls, so i looked into an agile les paul. i found the al-2800 dlx. it is awesome looking, and it seems like its kinda right in the middle between the really top of the line agiles, and the lower end ones. i looked on harmony-central and i only found 1 bad review on it! i found a guy that sent me some sound clips of him playing his agile 2800 dlx, and needless to say, it only fueled the GAS further... so, ive been working my butt of the past week/weekend in order to save money for this guitar. if there are any objections, i think im gonna get it in the next weeek or so, and ill keep you guys posted on whats goes on with my quest!

[marnold***]

I've heard great things about Agile Les Pauls. You'll probably want to swap out the pickups, but other than that the reviews are quite good. They had a Black Beauty that I lusted o'er. Having never played an LP, I'm not sure if I'd like them or not.

[r_a_smith3530]

i'm pondering the epi vs. gibson thing right now....and partly for a completely different reason! We are thinking of taking our summer vacation with the kids to nyc and my 9 year old son really wants to go see less paul at the iridium. I don't own a les paul but am thinking of getting one to have les sign (he stays after the show to sign autograhs and talk to everyone who wants to.

Sooooo.....do i spend the big bucks on a true gibson les paul or settle for the budget epi les paul. Since i know the guitar will be signed and personalized (to warren, etc) i am leaning towards a true gibson....

crazy reason to buy a guitar....i know but i have to do it! Wished i would have had one the first time i saw him....and since he is at least 90 this will probably be the last time i see him.

thoughts?

ww

Well, since you asked, here's my $.02 (devalued in the current market because it wasn't invested in Halliburton stock). I buy and own guitars to play them. One of my pet peaves are the "collectors" who have driven the price of old Gibson's (and indirectly the new ones as well) out of the range of average working musicians. Many a great budding guitarist never gets a chance to play or own a Gibson because collectors horde these instruments away to park them next to their bearer bonds in the vault. When I was a teen, I had friends my age who owned and played Gibson Les Paul's, Explorer's, Flying V's, etc. I lived in a lower middle class neighborhood. Today, most of my kid's friends could not even dream of such a thing, and I live in a better neighborhood now! There's something wrong with that.

Buying a guitar to get it signed and then turning it into a "closet queen" as an investment goes against everything that I believe in. Spending a couple of grand for this purpose just seems even more obscene. Spending that kind of money, having it signed, and then beating it to death with day in and day out play seems truly beyond bizarre.

OK, you've gotten my $.02. Now, if you are still going to do this, I would either buy a white guitar, or, try to find an absolutely mint 2004 Epiphone Les Paul 50th Anniversary Edition. It has a picture of Les silkscreened on the back. Wouldn't that be the thing for him to sign? I don't recall a Gibson version of this anniversary model ever being produced.

[r_a_smith3530]

I've heard great things about Agile Les Pauls. You'll probably want to swap out the pickups, but other than that the reviews are quite good. They had a Black Beauty that I lusted o'er. Having never played an LP, I'm not sure if I'd like them or not.

The 3000 and 3500 Series guitars really look like they'd be worth checking out. In a way, it is a shame that you cannot play them at your local guitar store! They look sweet.

[Spudman***]

I've got a beautiful Agile 2500 with P90's and I would say it plays better than 98% of anything I've played. It certainly smokes everything in it's price range. I'm not too familiar with P90's so I don't know how these stack up to other same pickups. I get good tones from it though. Excellent construction and finish. It's one of my guitars that I don't think I'll ever get rid of.

As for not being able to try one...Rondo Music is one of the top customer satisfaction businesses around. If you don't like it, tell them and they'll send a call tag or send you a check for the shipping back. You can either exchange or refund.

I haven't tried their humbucking Les Pauls but I bet they are just as good.

www.rondomusic.net

[SuperSwede]

Gibson guitars seems to be the modern day Stradivarius. Sure, they are great instruments but these days the copies are almost there quality wise. The Gibson guitars are NOT 5-10 times better than an epiphone as the prize would suggest.

[warren0728]

Well, since you asked, here's my $.02 (devalued in the current market because it wasn't invested in Halliburton stock). I buy and own guitars to play them. One of my pet peaves are the "collectors" who have driven the price of old Gibson's (and indirectly the new ones as well) out of the range of average working musicians....

Buying a guitar to get it signed and then turning it into a "closet queen" as an investment goes against everything that I believe in. Spending a couple of grand for this purpose just seems even more obscene. Spending that kind of money, having it signed, and then beating it to death with day in and day out play seems truly beyond bizarre.

OK, you've gotten my $.02. Now, if you are still going to do this, I would either buy a white guitar, or, try to find an absolutely mint 2004 Epiphone Les Paul 50th Anniversary Edition. It has a picture of Les silkscreened on the back. Wouldn't that be the thing for him to sign? I don't recall a Gibson version of this anniversary model ever being produced.

thanks for your opinion...i am not a collector, i am just a home player who loves music. I agree that gibsons are way overpriced but i think it's more because huge collectors like GC are buying them up and then reselling them at higher than market value. My guess is that "normal folks" like me (i am certainly not wealthy) who get the chance to have a legend like les paul sign a guitar are not the ones driving up the price of gibsons.

I hate the fact that if i want to get a gibson i probably won't be able to get any other guitar equipment this year and thats why i am considering an epiphone. The trips not until may/june so i don't have to rush out and buy one. I wanted a les paul anyway so i am going to lay it buy ear....if a decent gibson turns up at a decent price i will go for it but if not i will end up getting an epi instead.

ww

[r_a_smith3530]

GC (Guitar Center I am assuming) is not a collector, nor is it a collector/investor. A collector, by definition is someone who "gathers as a hobby." When you add investor to that mix you get someone who gathers, in this case certain guitars, as a hobby, in order to eventually see a profit. By definition, this would be someone holding on to that property for a period of time. Guitar Center buys and sells instruments on a constant flow basis for profit, as a business.

I don't know if you've been following Gibson's recent business activities, but many little mom & pop music stores have been forced out of their Gibson franchise/dealerships. Gibson appears poised to market their goods almost exclusively through large retailers like Musician's Friend/Guitar Center, Music123, and only the largest of retail dealers. I have heard that they are putting a line of guitars into Costco although I have yet to see this.

Anyway, Guitar Center is not causing Gibson's prices to rise. They actually sell their Gibsons for below Gibson suggested list. No, it is private investors that are creating the rise in the price of a Gibson, and it is Gibson that then takes advantage by also increasing the price of a brand new "vintage" or "relic" guitar way beyond its realistic value.

Guitar Center also sells Squier, and if your statement were accurate, then these would be selling for more also. Right now, a Squier Affinity Strat sells at Musician's Friend (GC's online store BTW) for $149.99, the same price my daughter paid for hers two years ago.

No, it is not GC, but rather, individuals and Gibson, independently of each other, plus a small cadre of middlemen who are fueling the increase in the price of a Gibson, used or new.

BTW, if you just want Les' signature on an instrument as a cool family curio, then buy a Gibson LP Junior. Sure, it probably won't become worth thousands (you say you're not in it for the money) as an investment, but you also won't break the bank, or your annual guitar budget, to purchase it (currently $649.00 @ MF).

A Japanese Orville by Gibson could also be used, but these too are beginning to become the latest "victims" of the collector market.

Remember that the original guitar that Les Paul developed with Gibson was constructed froma 2x4. That might just give you an idea for something quite unique that Les could sign. I'll bet that if it actually played, it would tickle him pink and really make his night as well!