Shopping for the sound of a Martin HD28V

[sunvalleylaw]

That is the sound I like. The big, rosewood/Spruce Martin dreadnought sound. I have been looking a while, and cannot afford 2 to 3 K for an acoustic. I recently found some deals on used Martins (D16RGT, DSR, Custom D15) which are all basically the same build according the factory man I talked to today. Each are built to the same specs other than cosmetics. None are HD28Vs, but they do sound good.

A local musician also reminded me of Blueridge guitars (which Markb had pointed out before), which are asian Martin copies that get really good reviews. There is one, the BR-160A that is an adirondack spruce top with rosewood back and sides, and sounds great on the vids, even as compared to a D-28 Marquis, which is a very nice Martin. Hmm. Decisions, decisions. Anyway, no more pedals or etc. for me until I save up for an upgraded acoustic. I have some saved but have a ways to go. I think i can get the sound I want for well under a grand. Here is a vid of the Martin D16RGT I found, and another showing the blueridge.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbIkSU1lEak
Watch it in HD, you get the sound better.

Blueridge
http://i.b5z.net/i/u/1530927/m/BR160AvsD-28marquis.wmv

[evenkeel]

Another option is the solid wood series from Morgan Monroe. My M30 is essentially a Martin 000 knock off. Very well made. There is a dread version.

Also have to put in a plug for Guild. The GAD series are reported to be a bit inconsistant, but the ones I've played I like a lot. You can also pick up used Westerly or Calif. built spruce rosewood dreads for under a grand.

[bigG]

Hey Steve, may I ask why the HD-28V? The D-28 is basically the same guitar, except for the Herringbone, V-shaped neck, forward shifted X bracing and price.

The D-28 has an MSRP of $2,999 vs $4,099 for the HD-28V, and is considered by many to be the best dreadnought ever made.

Just a thought. You might wanna go here to make direct comparisons:

http://www.martinguitar.com/guitars/choosing/model.php

Personally, I'd like to see you get a Martin (it is what you want). Just my 2 cents...

(Remember what Jimi75 said when he finally got his Gibson LP Trad Gold Top: paraphrasing here - that he finally knew to go after what you really want, without settling, and trading, and selling, and wasting time, effort, and, in the end, money. Very wise words. I went WAY over my budget for my new Martin M-36, but as the days go by, I have absolutely NO regrets, and the money thing is working itself out nicely. )

G

[sunvalleylaw]

Yeah BigG, I would kinda like to stay with a Martin, or at least an American or North America (ie Larrivee, Canada) made guitar if possible. Also, those Blueridges have some gaudy headstock stuff on them. Why the HD28V? Well, there was one in the local shop that has now closed that just rang with me. I cannot tell you exactly what I heard, but I just liked it. I also like Adi top Martins like the D-28 Marquis (they are called cannons) too. I played a D-45 that I think was a Marquis on the rep night, and that thing was sweet! But I might admit that if I did not play the HD28V right before or after a decent standard D-28 or even perhaps the less expensive Martins, I would not notice a difference. The D16/15s have different bracing again, (D1 A frame vs. standard bracing on the D-28 and forward shifted as you have noted on the V) so have the same Martin family of sound, if not the same exact sound.


I have a big discussion going on in the Acoustic Guitar Forum right now on the same subject, and many are pointing me in that same direction. All comes down to what I can really afford in a reasonable time. I don't mind saving and waiting a while, but saving for a HD28V would tie up a huge percentage of personal funds in one guitar. Maybe a used D-28 might work, or maybe one of the others if I get over some cork sniffiness, or really decide that the family of sound is close enough when i am not sniffing different guitars in the same room.

[bigG]

Another option is the solid wood series from Morgan Monroe. My M30 is essentially a Martin 000 knock off. Very well made. There is a dread version.

Also have to put in a plug for Guild. The GAD series are reported to be a bit inconsistant, but the ones I've played I like a lot. You can also pick up used Westerly or Calif. built spruce rosewood dreads for under a grand.

If you want that big Martin sound you're after, stay w a dreadnought. The 000 mentioned above has a shallower body (approx 4 - 1/8" vs the dread's 4 - 7/8"). The "sound" won't be as big and boomy as you want, imho.

I do love my Guild GAD Jumbo, great guits for the price. But it's no Martin...

Just my opinion.

[markb]

If you want that big Martin sound you're after, stay w a dreadnought. The 000 mentioned above has a shallower body (approx 4 - 1/8" vs the dread's 4 - 7/8"). The "sound" won't be as big and boomy as you want, imho.

I do love my Guild GAD Jumbo, great guits for the price. But it's no Martin...

Just my opinion.

A true (i.e. Martin) 000 is shorter in the scale too which all detracts from that big sound. The OM is a 000 body with dreadnought scale length. Only a rosewood dread' is going to give the sound Steve has in his head. I'll go further and say that the different bracing in the more modern Martin designs (15, 16, etc) won't get you that D28 thump either.

[evenkeel]

If you want that big Martin sound you're after, stay w a dreadnought. The 000 mentioned above has a shallower body (approx 4 - 1/8" vs the dread's 4 - 7/8"). The "sound" won't be as big and boomy as you want, imho.

I don't think I even suggested a 000 would replicate the sound of a dread. SVL was asking for some options for that traditional, big dread, spruce/rosewood, Martin rumble. The Morgan Monroe I was refering to is this
http://morganmonroe.com/M50_11a13697...4bc5d5d6b.html
Forward shifted bracing, solid woods, very much a Martin HD-28 clone.

Having said that, I agree, if you want a Martin, then probably only a Martin will do. FWIW I played a used, mid '90's HD-28 recently, just after purchasing the Guild D-60. The Guild has all the dread rumble of the Martin if not more. The Martin has an asking price of $1,500, the Guild... well a lot less. A plainer Guild, D-40 for example, even less.

[sunvalleylaw]

I don't think I even suggested a 000 would replicate the sound of a dread. SVL was asking for some options for that traditional, big dread, spruce/rosewood, Martin rumble. The Morgan Monroe I was refering to is this
http://morganmonroe.com/M50_11a13697...4bc5d5d6b.html
Forward shifted bracing, solid woods, very much a Martin HD-28 clone.

Having said that, I agree, if you want a Martin, then probably only a Martin will do. FWIW I played a used, mid '90's HD-28 recently, just after purchasing the Guild D-60. The Guild has all the dread rumble of the Martin if not more. The Martin has an asking price of $1,500, the Guild... well a lot less. A plainer Guild, D-40 for example, even less.

And I have looked at Guilds before, thinking a D-50 might be a good one. The Tacoma built ones seemed like decent guitars, if not what they were in the old days. That Morgan Monroe might be and option too, or a Recording King, or a Blue Ridge, or a Stanford PSD28. http://www.gypsyjazzguitars.com/guit...nfordpics.html
Or a Tacoma proper (with standard type sound holes) might do the trick. My problem there is finding these other makes to play might be hard. Fender killed the whole Tacoma thing, and I have never seen most of the rest (other than some lower end Blue Ridges) in Idaho. Someone also suggested a Breedlove in the retro series, and a quick look on line indicated they might be nice. Well, first things first. Save up some dough, and continue to play some as I can find them, and get one when it happens.

[markb]

An older Guild D35'll get it too if you can find one at a good price. 70s and 80s Guilds used to be the real bargains of the acoustic market but I haven't checked lately.

[Heywood Jablomie]

Have you checked out any of Godin's acoustics? Even their top of the line models cost little more than $1000. If my Seagull and A & L experience is any indication, the top models will be great.

[peachhead***]

Personally, I'd like to see you get a Martin (it is what you want). Just my 2 cents...

(Remember what Jimi75 said when he finally got his Gibson LP Trad Gold Top: paraphrasing here - that he finally knew to go after what you really want, without settling, and trading, and selling, and wasting time, effort, and, in the end, money. Very wise words. I went WAY over my budget for my new Martin M-36, but as the days go by, I have absolutely NO regrets, and the money thing is working itself out nicely. )

G

Can't say it any better than that. If that's what you want, then you won't be really satisfied with anything else.

[sunvalleylaw]

Well, I am leaving all options open at this point. The first thing is to get any sort of budget. Right now, I cannot buy anything I want. But I can in a while with a bit of planning and saving. I am going to shoot for a Martin of the type that I want (not necessarily a HD28V, just one in the same family of tones), unless and until I find the guitar that makes me forget about getting that tone. There are a lot of options to look at, and I can and will take my time. Reports will follow as I continue my quest.

[bigG]

I don't think I even suggested a 000 would replicate the sound of a dread. SVL was asking for some options for that traditional, big dread, spruce/rosewood, Martin rumble. The Morgan Monroe I was refering to is this
http://morganmonroe.com/M50_11a13697...4bc5d5d6b.html
Forward shifted bracing, solid woods, very much a Martin HD-28 clone.

Having said that, I agree, if you want a Martin, then probably only a Martin will do. FWIW I played a used, mid '90's HD-28 recently, just after purchasing the Guild D-60. The Guild has all the dread rumble of the Martin if not more. The Martin has an asking price of $1,500, the Guild... well a lot less. A plainer Guild, D-40 for example, even less.

evenkeel, sorry if I stepped on your toes, there. I didn't mean to imply that you had suggested a 000, only mentioned one, as in: "you like yours", and that a dread was available from the same manufacturer.

Apologies for any misunderstanding. I probably could have worded that 000 reference better, and made myself more clear. When I saw a 000 mentioned, I simply wanted to make sure that SVL steer clear for the sound he was looking for, which you had certainly said when suggesting the same brand's dread (and its specs).

My bad,

G

[markb]

... I am going to shoot for a Martin of the type that I want (not necessarily a HD28V, just one in the same family of tones), ...

Modern D28s are great guitars and do the "banjo killer" thing without even pausing for breath. So do many other rosewood dreads. I had a Sigma (Martin licenced copy) "'bone" that managed to fool one of London's top prewar Martin snobs after he'd heard it. He stopped speaking to me once he found out what it really was I think we get far too hung up on model numbers and the like in these interweb times. I can remember when there was only "a Gibson humbucker" available if you wanted a replacement pickup. Now you ask the question and get 100+ different replies. Progress?

Use your ears, play many, buy one

[evenkeel]

An older Guild D35'll get it too if you can find one at a good price. 70s and 80s Guilds used to be the real bargains of the acoustic market but I haven't checked lately.

My Guild 1975 D35 is a spectacular sounding, if rather plain Jane, dread. But, it's Spruce/Mahogany, so probably not the sound SVL is looking for. Has a much brighter, mid range oriented tone. Not the low end rumble of rosewood.

[wingsdad]

Well, I am leaving all options open at this point. The first thing is to get any sort of budget. Right now, I cannot buy anything I want. But I can in a while with a bit of planning and saving. I am going to shoot for a Martin of the type that I want (not necessarily a HD28V, just one in the same family of tones), unless and until I find the guitar that makes me forget about getting that tone. There are a lot of options to look at, and I can and will take my time. Reports will follow as I continue my quest.

Steve, you've often pointed to Neil Young & his Martin (D45) as a major favorite of yours, so it's no surprise you're longing for the big sound of a Martin rose/spruce dread.

It's been pointed out that if it's a rose/spruce Martin dread you want, be it an HD28 or otherwise, then anything less or other may be a disappointment, a cause to 2nd-guess yourself for 'settling'.

With your mind open, and by necessity, perhaps not your wallet as much as your mind, I echo the advice of others: while you're saving, start the quest by finding and laying your hands on all the rose/spruce dreads you can and play them. Ideally, you'd find a store that has a Martin to A/B with.

I'd only add that it may be wise to go in the company of a friend/player, who can play (them) for you while you stand back and listen...like they're on audition. They sound a whole lot different from the front than from behind, nestled against your body as they'd be with you behind the wheel.

Finally, an acid A/B test of the 'value' of the solid rosewood back is to hold each of the contenders up and out, away from the body, finger a big open E or G chord, and give it a big, hard rip.

Chick-a-Chunggggg!!

Listen to the ringing overtones and sustain.

You'll know THE ONE when you hear it, no matter what brand it is, because you'll feel your knees buckle.

[evenkeel]

I'd only add that it may be wise to go in the company of a friend/player, who can play (them) for you while you stand back and listen...like they're on audition. They sound a whole lot different from the front than from behind, nestled against your body as they'd be with you behind the wheel.

Finally, an acid A/B test of the 'value' of the solid rosewood back is to hold each of the contenders up and out, away from the body, finger a big open E or G chord, and give it a big, hard rip.

Very good points. I always like to have someone play few chords when comparision shopping. A few big first position chords, a bit of fingerpicking, a few riffs.

[sunvalleylaw]

LOL! Wingsdad, I was just this morning looking out our PMs from a few months ago on the subject. Yep, that is the approach I want to take. And I will take my time with it.

[sunvalleylaw]

Well, I am in the process of ordering this: http://www.dreamguitars.com/preowned...6tr_581077.php

I have been looking at it for a couple weeks, and collecting my funds. Ready to go today and am waiting for the call back to complete the order. Click on either the link to the clip of the guitar, or the slideshow vid that also has the clip to check it out. It is a 1996, not a 2006 as it is incorrectly listed at the top. I am pretty excited!

I have shopped GC and looked at theirs, looked in the Boise Martin dealer (they did not have any R/S dreads at all, just mahogany), and tried lots of guitars. The Martin R/S dreadnought sound is it. This one is a nice compromise, with a good sound, a nice look that is a bit off the beaten track, and has a 3 day approval period in case it is not what I want when it gets here.