Need Some Clarification

[just strum]

The DP223F PAF 36th Anniversary F-Spaced Bridge Pickup DiMArzio pick-up was recommended to me, but I have a question about the description. What are they referring to when they say "F-Spaced"?

[M29]

A short answer is the spacing of the pole pieces and strings on a Fender pickup at the bridge is wider than a standard humbucking.

[hubberjub***]

What M29 said.

[mrmudcat]

F=floyd spacing I believe.

[just strum]

I contacted DiMarzio's and told them I wanted to mod my Dot. Told them that my taste in music is primarily blues and classic rock.

I was looking for suggestions from them and they responded with

"try a standard-spaced AIr Classic neck model (DP190) in the neck position and an F-spaced PAF bridge model (DP223F) in the bridge position."

I'm also going to look at some Duncan pick ups.

At the risk of confusing the issue, I'm open to suggestions.

[markb]

Duncan use the term "trembucker" (and confuse the issue by having a Trembucker model!) for the same thing. Humbuckers spaced for Fender bridge position.

[ZMAN]

JS: With all the money you saved by not buying the ES335, I would spring for a set of BB 1 and 2s or 57 Classic, Classic plus and be done with it. My take on it is why buy 2 or 3 lower dollar pickups. After all what are these pickups copying? Then your dot would sound amazing.
Plus Chrismas is coming. Wouldn't that be a nice gift from a couple of family members. Just some thoughts.

[just strum]

Wouldn't that be a nice gift from a couple of family members. Just some thoughts.

We think alike.

Last Christmas it was pick ups for my Washburn Idol. I never heard of BB 1 and 2.

The 57's have always been a consideration, but I wasn't sure if the difference in cost was worth it (if you haven't figured out by now, I'm cheap).

[hubberjub***]

We think alike.

Last Christmas it was pick ups for my Washburn Idol. I never heard of BB 1 and 2.

The 57's have always been a consideration, but I wasn't sure if the difference in cost was worth it (if you haven't figured out by now, I'm cheap).

He's talking about Gibson Burst Buckers. Some people really like them. I'm not a huge fan of Gibson pickups but they would be pretty easy to test out as they are in several new Gibson guitars. The 36th Anniversary Dimarzio pickups are getting some high praise. I am a fan of Dimarzio and have them in four of my guitars. My Modulus has Virtual P90s, my Les Paul has Virtual Vintage, and two of my new Heritages have a PAF Classic at the neck and a Super Distortion at the bridge. My other two Heritage 150s have Seymour Duncan 59s in them. They sound good but are a little muddier than the Dimarzios in my opinion.

[Kazz]

(if you haven't figured out by now, I'm cheap).

Ha.....he finally admits it...

[ZMAN]

Burstbucker 1, and 2, 3. Are the new line of Gibson pickups. I have been listening to the Joe Bonamassa at the Royal Albert hall and he uses BB in his guitars. They really sound amazing. The 57s 57 classic plus used to be my favourite upgrade, but the Burstbuckers are now #1. BTW that DVD is a must have. You are not cheap btw only frugal. But I think in the long run it is cheaper to buy the best once! And IMHO they are worth the extra cash.
Not many guys that have swapped them have not liked them. I mean guys like us who play blues and classic rock.
And for the record I was born in Scotland, so you know what our reputation is! LOL

[just strum]

Burstbucker 1, and 2, 3. Are the new line of Gibson pickups. I have been listening to the Joe Bonamassa at the Royal Albert hall and he uses BB in his guitars. They really sound amazing. The 57s 57 classic plus used to be my favourite upgrade, but the Burstbuckers are now #1.

I'm thinking either the DiMarzio's as already noted or the 57 classic and 57 classic plus. I've used the DiMarzio's (not the same model) in my Idol and I was pleased with them. However, I know what 57's sound like and it goes without saying that I am attracted to them.

I'll have to check out the BB's if I get the opportunity.

I would like to get a sample of how the 36th Anniversary Dimarzio sound.

[hubberjub***]

This is a video by Jack Zucker. He's using an Epiphone Elitist Les Paul with the 36th Anniversary pickups in it. I have been impressed with what I've heard of these pickups.

[deeaa*]

Guys,

I don't believe anyone can blind test and make out any differences between any mostly similar pickups, like Seymours of similar-output power, distinguish between them or put in order & repeat the feat reliably.

In real world, there is NO real difference between any regular humbucking pickup using the same structure and basically the same materials and winding. By using totally different magnets for instance you can get differences, yes, but they are so small you only need a 1/30th turn of yer tone knob to negate the changes.

Of course there's going to be a difference between, say a Seymour and a cheaply made chinese copy but between those groups it's damned hard to notice any real differences, and I bet if there are any, 90% of it is plain imagination.

So basically, changing between various similar seymours and finding differences in them is, IMHO of course, akin to seeing Jesus in a burnt toast.

Just pick the output level you want and the build quality you want and it won't matter none which exact model you are using in the end.

I could rip & randomly give numbers to for instance Seymour site sound clips and ask people to re-name them according to which pup clips they are and I'm confident there is NOBODY who could do it.

Want to test it? I could easily put up a couple of 'official seymour' soundclips in new files and see if anybody could even remotely guess or compare what clips they might be?`:-)

[just strum]

Guys,

I don't believe anyone can blind test and make out any differences between any mostly similar pickups, like Seymours of similar-output power, distinguish between them or put in order & repeat the feat reliably.

In real world, there is NO real difference between any regular humbucking pickup using the same structure and basically the same materials and winding. By using totally different magnets for instance you can get differences, yes, but they are so small you only need a 1/30th turn of yer tone knob to negate the changes.

Let me try to understand this. What you are saying is that if you take Gibson 57's and compare them to "like" pick-ups of another brand (Duncans, DiMarzio or .....), you will not be able to hear a difference?

[deeaa*]

Let me try to understand this. What you are saying is that if you take Gibson 57's and compare them to "like" pick-ups of another brand (Duncans, DiMarzio or .....), you will not be able to hear a difference?

Usually you will hear a difference but that is because you won't find and udually not even try find a pickup with exact same values. But, yes, if you swap a Gibby 57 to any pup with just the same values, same build (covers/no, magnet type), then any differences can only come from loose potting or such.

Usually there are differences due to age etc. but what I'm trying to say it doesn't matter if its ghs, gibby, duncan, whatever, just that the output and build is what you want.

Pickups are VERY simple. You can build your own easier than bake a cake. There is no magic or mystery to them, although that's what manuacturers would have us believe.

[deeaa*]

I wanna clarify further; as with anything else, there are subtle differences to pickups for sure, and with age they accumulate traits like loose the coils a little, magnets weaken etc. and so on and on...

But the bottom like is they are much much more similar between each other than people, based on reports etc. seem to really think. I've tested it several times too. The tone of an electric probably changes much more by swapping the body to a mahogany one for instance than by swapping a DiMarzio to a Seymour, unless the new pickups are clearly different from the originals.

But, say you swap a nice $50 bucker for a $200 bucker that has the exact same output level and build type...I really can't believe anyone who claims they could spot the difference in a blind test. That's what I mean. The user probably does hear even a lot of differences; well he _wants_ to hear a difference and he'll adjust it and play it and probably will end up with a difference in tone, but I'm sure it's not the pickup, it's how it's set up, how the polepieces are set and so on.

IMO there is no sense in swapping a, say a better quality Epi pickup to a same type/power Gibson pup...whatever differences there may be are surely smaller than a small twist of a tone knob.

Now, if you're changing the build, that's another story. P90 is entirely different from a bucker, or a single, or active, or minibucker, or stacked, or coverless/covered, with staggered poles/large/small screws, alnico/normal/vintage magnets...all these are totally different in sound between each other.

But a 11.2 DiMarzio Alnico and a 11.2 Seymour Alnico and whatever 11.2 alnico bucker...there is virtually no difference between those.

[Eric***]

In real world, there is NO real difference between any regular humbucking pickup using the same structure and basically the same materials and winding. By using totally different magnets for instance you can get differences, yes, but they are so small you only need a 1/30th turn of yer tone knob to negate the changes.

Of course there's going to be a difference between, say a Seymour and a cheaply made chinese copy but between those groups it's damned hard to notice any real differences, and I bet if there are any, 90% of it is plain imagination.

I know you have taken some heat for this assertion, but I think you're right-on. It's kind of freeing to me to know that you don't have to buy super-expensive to get that elusive pickup tone, because...well, I'm cheap.

It makes me wonder what other things are veiled in mystery and don't really mean as much as some think they do. Cables come to mind...

[ZMAN]

I got ot thinking about the DC output of my humbucker pickups. I tested my three Gibson Les Pauls, my 335, and my Epi Elitist LP with the Gibson pickups.
The ES335 were the closest to a PAF pickup ala 57 Classic, Burstbuckers etc.
They were in the range of 7.11 neck to 8.79 bridge. The two with the 490/498 combos and the Epi which are said to be rebadged Gibby 490/498s
all had in the range of 7.4 neck and 13.35 bridge. Just for fun I checked the 2001 Sheraton with the stock Epi pickups and they were neck 8.43 and bridge 8.67.
The 496/500 set in my Classic were way up at 8.32 neck and 14.59 bridge.
The P90s were interesting as well. The Wilkinsons were 9.83 neck and 10.98 bridge. The ones in my 68 SG Gibson P90s were neck 7.48 and Bridge 7.55.
Now to rate the tone on all of these I would say that the 335s with the semi hollow body are very mellow, but can hit some pretty good highs.
The 490/498 combos are really good at both ends. You get a pretty good PAF sound on the neck and yet you can get some screaming solos with the bridge. The Classic Ceramic magnet pickups are really nice for some electric blues, and I must say I really like them now that I have heard the Burstbucker 2 and 3s that Bonamassa has, which are the high output in that series.
JS: I thought you could use this as a reference when you are looking at the aftermarket pick ups. They usually give their DC resistance in the specs.
In your dot you might like to try something that is in the range of 7.5 neck and something that is in the range of 13 in the bridge for a little punch. I am not sure but I think the 57 Classic plus is in that range.
Also I would look around for a set of 490/498s in the used section because they are very nice pickups. I have a set of Seymour Duncan design pickups in an Esprit that are supposed to be copy of the 59, and JB. I just checked them, and the neck is 7.65, and the bridge is a wopping 15.52
As you know the wood and the other electronics play a big role in tone. I hope this helps.
I am now going to measure my Strats.