Compensated Acoustic Saddle or not

[long past dead]

I really wonder what use a compensated saddle has. I have read that the reason is for intonation. For me when I play acoustic I rarely play beyond the 5th fret and I do not believe intonation is that critical. The reason I am asking s because I recently replaced a compensated saddle on an old acoustic with a standard bone saddle and the guitar came to life sounding better than my newer electric acoustics. Also I have read that if there are any string marks or indentations in the saddle to replace it. On the compensated saddle the B and G string are across less than 1/16 of an inch of saddle and after a few hours of playing there are marks and after weeks they become small grooves. I am going to experiment and place a standard non-compensated saddle on one of my acoustic electrics. Is there any merit to this? Is it just a waste of time? Any feedback would be appreciated before I dig in and try it. Has anyone tried this?

[evenkeel]

People with a lot more knowledge than me and better ears than me will tell you that a compensated saddle on a acoustic is 1. nonsense or 2. essential to proper intonation. On my Guild D35 I've gone back and forth with compensated vs. not and have a hard time telling a difference.

In a recent issue of Vintage Guitar Magazine Dan Erlewine was interviwed along with Steve Earl re: Earls new signature Martin 0000. It does not have a compensated saddle as both feel it makes no difference.

If you play a lot of first position chords and/or stay below the 5th fret then my opinion is a compensated saddle has little impact.

[long past dead]

Thanks for the input. This is my feeling exactly as you state. I am going to give it a try as little by little I am improving the tone and sound of my acoustics.

[navvid]

Compensated saddles are not a matter of improving your tone. It has to do with the scale length of the string, which effects the "temper" I believe is the traditional word for it. This refers to the pitch of fretted notes and harmonics as you go up the neck. If your guitar is properly set up, the 12th fret harmonic, 12th fret fretted note and the open note should match. If they do not, you need to compensate the saddle appropriately, (on an electric usually this can be done via an adjustment screw for each string individually). What I would stress is that this is a matter of correct setup, not tone. It does have the side effect of making the guitar tend to sound better when played because your harmonics are not off pitch and so on, but they will not make half the difference of say, a slight improvement in technique, a lighter touch.

Also, if you tune by harmonics and your intonation is wrong, you tuning will be off as well.

The bone saddle improved your tone because it was bone, not because it was or was not compensated.

[luvmyshiner]

The bone saddle improved your tone because it was bone, not because it was or was not compensated.

Exactly! I know I keep preaching the value of upgrading your acoustics to a bone saddle. That's because it really does make that much of a difference.

Throw me in the group that's never been able to tell that much of a difference between a compensated saddle and a "non-compensated" (?) saddle. On some of my guits they seem to work, on others I can tell no difference.

But the very first thing I do with every acoustic guitar I get is upgrade the saddle to bone. Try it once and you'll understand.

[sunvalleylaw]

I had wondered about Colosi's fossilized walrus. Any of you try that? There was a taste test over on the acoustic guitar forum, and on the taylor that was being played, I liked the FWI the best, with bone second.

[wingsdad]

...Colosi's fossilized walrus.

Man, the cork sniffers n' Colosi butt kissers at the AGF must be on some kinda strange canabbis to be ga-ga over fossilized freakin' walrus...

I'm sorry....I just find that absolutely hilarious. What's the next magic tone pill : picks made of petrified dork foreskin?

[sunvalleylaw]

Lol!

[markb]

I've had acoustics with both. I haven't found that they really make a difference.
Things that affect tone at the saddle end (ime) are the material and the way the saddle fits in the bridge slot. If it rattles in the slot or fits too tightly or doesn't sit dead flat on the bottom of the slot you'll have problems.
Getting your new saddle fitted by someone who knows how to level the slot and will make sure the saddle fits properly is far more important than any other consideration.

[navvid]

Again, compensation is not a matter of tone. It is a matter of scale length, which is scientific fact. The proper scale length for each string has to do with the gauge, and tension. When you adjust the scale length (i.e. compensation), you are correcting the fretted notes to match the appropriate corresponding chromatic scale degree for that fretted note. If your saddle is not compensated, there is no way all your strings will be the proper scale length, which means fretted notes going up the fret board will be progressively further out of pitch. In other words, your open 5th string may be tuned to A 440, but the 1st fret note will not correctly match A#, 2nd fret will be still further from proper B, and so on.

[FrankenFretter***]

Again, compensation is not a matter of tone. It is a matter of scale length, which is scientific fact. The proper scale length for each string has to do with the gauge, and tension. When you adjust the scale length (i.e. compensation), you are correcting the fretted notes to match the appropriate corresponding chromatic scale degree for that fretted note. If your saddle is not compensated, there is no way all your strings will be the proper scale length, which means fretted notes going up the fret board will be progressively further out of pitch. In other words, your open 5th string may be tuned to A 440, but the 1st fret note will not correctly match A#, 2nd fret will be still further from proper B, and so on.

Amazingly enough (to me, anyway), that makes total sense. Why would anyone use an uncompensated saddle then, Navvid?

[navvid]

Amazingly enough (to me, anyway), that makes total sense. Why would anyone use an uncompensated saddle then, Navvid?

Well, they require some skill to make so unless it is for a nice guitar (which would likely come with a compensated saddle) some won't go to the trouble. Pre-made compensated saddles can be found, but it may be that you can't find one that fits the saddle routing easily (this is the case with an old Washburn acoustic I am fixing for a friend).

In most cases I think people just don't know what they are, or why they would want one, so if they don't have one on there to begin with, they're not gonna get one. If and when they do, it's usually because the guitar has problems and a new saddle is part of the fix.

[navvid]

I had wondered about Colosi's fossilized walrus. Any of you try that? There was a taste test over on the acoustic guitar forum, and on the taylor that was being played, I liked the FWI the best, with bone second.

I want to try human.

[FrankenFretter***]

I want to try human.

I'm laughing and grimacing at the same time. One must have their hobbies, I suppose...

[navvid]

Unfortunately, there are no bones in the human body which have enough wall thickness to produce a usable blank.

[gunnier]

I have 2 guitars. The saddle on the classical is compensated on the G string and it has near perfect intonation.
My acoustic came with a fully compensated saddle, but the intonation wasn't that good so I replaced it with
one compensated on the B string only. There's some improvement, but it doesn't come close to the classical.
Can someone explain the difference between saddle compensations and suggest a remedy?

[Bookkeeper's Son]

Can someone explain the difference between saddle compensations and suggest a remedy?

As on any guitar, acoustic fixed-bridge intonation is never perfect, only a compromise. But, do keep in mind that string gauge affects intonation, too, and since most modern acoustics are engineered for light-gauge 12s, other gauges are more problematic.