Reverb pedal woes

[kidsmoke*]

My first amp was a Roland 30X, which has a built in reverb. My teach at the time, a pro guitarist made the comment "a little 'verb goes a loooong way" and I've always had it in the mix since.

Later, I bought a small tube amp, which simply has gain, tone and vol. So now I needed a pedal. Did the basic research, and picked up a Holy Grail on CL, in box, not a blemish.

Yeah right. It is very temperamental. Works about 30% of the time. If I'm playing, and hit the pedal, it adds the 'verb, no problem. Kick off. Kick on again, and the output from the amp cuts 50% with some hissing. kick off. kick on, and it's at 30% with crackling and hissing. kick off. kick on, clean 'verb.

I'm thinking the Grail is digital, so the cost of repair is nearly the cost of a new pedal, so it's not worth it. Does anyone think it's worth looking at?

If not, I'm thinking about different directions. I like the idea of a true spring reverb, like that found in a Fender amp, only, outside the cab, as a pedal. The dude who built my amp builds them. Or, any other recommendations?

[duhvoodooman***]

Could be something as simple as a bad footswitch on the Holy Grail, but could also be something complicated and expensive to fix. Unless you have a lot of $$ in it or can do the work yourself, it's prolly not worth fixing.

That true spring reverb pedal looks interesting, though I'd be concerned potential reliability problems (spring reverb units are kind of infamous for this), and the Harmony Central reviews aren't too impressive. Kinda big for a pedalboard, too, if that's a consideration.

Something you might want to consider is the BYOC Reverb kit. I built one for myself and use it as my exclusive reverb unit for my Egnater Rebel 20W head. The Belton digital spring reverb emulator module it uses sounds amazingly authentic, and being all solid state, reliability should be a non-issue. You can see some details on my build HERE....

[sunvalleylaw]

Could be something as simple as a bad footswitch on the Holy Grail, but could also be something complicated and expensive to fix. Unless you have a lot of $$ in it or can do the work yourself, it's prolly not worth fixing.

That true spring reverb pedal looks interesting, though I'd be concerned potential reliability problems (spring reverb units are kind of infamous for this), and the Harmony Central reviews aren't too impressive. Kinda big for a pedalboard, too, if that's a consideration.

Something you might want to consider is the BYOC Reverb kit. I built one for myself and use it as my exclusive reverb unit for my Egnater Rebel 20W head. The Belton digital spring reverb emulator module it uses sounds amazingly authentic, and being all solid state, reliability should be a non-issue. You can see some details on my build HERE....

Hey DVM, you and I were chatting about how you like that BYOC, and I surfed here a bit and found a year or two ago you really liked the Digitech Digiverb. How do they compare as options for getting a nice spring reverb sound? I also have interest.

[Tig***]

Hey DVM, you and I were chatting about how you like that BYOC, and I surfed here a bit and found a year or two ago you really liked the Digitech Digiverb. How do they compare as options for getting a nice spring reverb sound? I also have interest.

Yep, + 1.
I'll need a great reverb, hopefully soon.

[kidsmoke*]

DVM, hoping you'd chime in. I had looked into your pedal from your site, and for sure that's on the very short list.

AS for a repair, I'll open it up and see if there is some glaring issue. I've no experience on diagnostics though, so unless it's a bad solder point, I don't think I can take it too far. If it's gonna be a paperweight though, makes for a good learning experience. Looking at all the gut photos on this forum, band all the DYI'ers commenting, bolsters my confidence for sure.

Your points on the Lanilei pedal are valid. Is it not true that true reverb is delicate anyway? Seems that on half the amps with it that you see for sale, it's out of commission. And the dude builds a rock solid amp.....

[duhvoodooman***]

Is it not true that true reverb is delicate anyway? Seems that on half the amps with it that you see for sale, it's out of commission. And the dude builds a rock solid amp.....

Yeah, I think spring reverbs are just intrinsically delicate. Like you say, they always seem to be going on the fritz. I read a funny comment from Joe Bonamassa on his website forum:

"The problem I have with real spring reverbs on stage is the tendency to break down and to make that SPLUSHHHHH sound when a man of considerable stature walks by..."

So even the pro's with their full-time techs can't keep 'em running!

Hey DVM, you and I were chatting about how you like that BYOC, and I surfed here a bit and found a year or two ago you really liked the Digitech Digiverb. How do they compare as options for getting a nice spring reverb sound? I also have interest.

Yeah, I still have my DigiTech Digiverb, though it doesn't get much use these days (maybe I should sell it to one of you guys!). It's a great reverb pedal--sounds good, it's quiet, and it has a TON of different reverb sounds on tap. But I found that I virtually always used the spring setting, 'cuz that's just THE reverb sound in my '60's-infused head. And while the Digitech's spring emulation sounds good, the Belton module in the BYOC pedal is a step up. It will never match the overall flexibility of the Digitech pedal, but if it's that spring reverb sound you love, the BYOC Reverb is very tough to beat!

[tunghaichuan***]

If you like the spring reverb sound, avoid the Boss RV-5. I have one and the spring reverb setting is terrible. The other settings, however are very good. It's kind of expensive, though so the BYOC and Digitech 'verbs are a much better buy.

[duhvoodooman***]

I should mention that the BYOC Reverb kit is quite an easy build--maybe not their easiest kit, but still very straightforward. The parts count is moderately high, but it's mostly resistors and film caps, which are easy to pick, place & solder. Because of the physical size of the Belton reverb module, the kit comes with a larger 1590/BB-size enclosure, so there's plenty of room inside and the parts aren't all jammed together to fit. The pots are the PC-mount style that you solder directly to the PCB, and the kit uses the latest BYOC layout that keeps the wiring neat, clean & easy. If you have some basic soldering experience and can follow directions, you can build this kit....

[Ch0jin]

If you like the spring reverb sound, avoid the Boss RV-5. I have one and the spring reverb setting is terrible. The other settings, however are very good. It's kind of expensive, though so the BYOC and Digitech 'verbs are a much better buy.

Also avoid the cheap Behringer DR100 reverb pedal.

I bought one a while ago to use on with my homebrew JCM800 and I hate it. I was only comparing it to my peavey ultra tube's spring reverb which isn't mind blowing anyway, but IMO it just sounds, well, electronic rather than organic.

DVM my good sir, have you by any chance had the opportunity to A/B the BYOC with an EHX HG?

I've played through the HG a while ago in a store and loved the sound, but it was really, really expensive so I left it. If the BYOC unit comes close, I might have to grab one.

I reckon Tio's grail is probably fixable though.

They look pretty rugged so I'd be looking for bad joints around anything electromechanical like power and audio jacks and pots. Loss of volume and excessive hum that comes and goes with impact could be as simple as a bad earth. Put it this way. If you lived near me I would definitely try and persuade you to sell it to me dirt cheap so I could fix it up. Those babies run $300 over here and sound amazing when they work...

[kidsmoke*]

I opened it up, and all solder points appear solid. Is it possible that one can fail while appearing intact? Anything else to look for?

[tunghaichuan***]

I opened it up, and all solder points appear solid. Is it possible that one can fail while appearing intact? Anything else to look for?

In the past, I've emailed EH and gotten prompt, curteous repsponses from them. You might email them to see if there is a common fault that they know about. You never know, it could be an easy fix.

[kidsmoke*]

I'll give em a try.

[Ch0jin]

In the past, I've emailed EH and gotten prompt, curteous repsponses from them. You might email them to see if there is a common fault that they know about. You never know, it could be an easy fix.

Now THAT'S a good tip

[otaypanky***]

I have a Holy Grail, the older style, that doesn't see much use but it acted up on me a bit too. 'Seems I remember finding somewhere on the net that this was a pretty frequent occurence. It does sound great when it's working correctly. Stepping on the switch a 2nd time and all is good ~
I never tried to correct mine, but I would bet a new switch would be the worth a try

[kidsmoke*]

Basic deduction says that's should be it. It never slips into "low output" mode during use, only at switch points. I'd think that if some circuit was failing under load, it would occur randomly during use as well.

DVM...can you direct me to a good switch source? That may be worth the nominal cost and a few minutes with soldering iron.

[duhvoodooman***]

DVM...can you direct me to a good switch source? That may be worth the nominal cost and a few minutes with soldering iron.

Best selection I'm aware of, short of wading through the Mouser catalog:

Small Bear Electronics

[kidsmoke*]

Thanks, man.
Is there a particular make that you recommend based on your build experience?
It's a 9 pin switch with 8 in use.

Here's the guts.......

[duhvoodooman***]

Thanks, man.
Is there a particular make that you recommend based on your build experience?

THIS ONE.

[kidsmoke*]

dude, can you be more specific?


KIDDING...thanks man!
Question...from your link

"Blue 3PDT True Bypass Switch by E/H. RoHS compliant."

Does that mean it's made by Electro Harmonix? If so, their switch may be what has failed......no concern going with the same switch? Damn, $4.00! gonna cost more to ship it. That's awesome.