How to adjust high action on Seagull?

[Eric***]

I had not taken my acoustic out of its case in a few months until this past week. As I'm playing acoustic in church this Sunday, I needed to get it out and play it a bit, and in doing so, I noticed that the action is pretty high. Some of this may be perception, since I've been playing electrics recently. However, up the neck it seems high even for an acoustic.

Last summer, the guitar was a little over-humidified due to the weather here and developed a bit of a crown in the top. I took it in and had a new saddle cut that was lower, with the expectation that when the top dried out, I would put the old saddle back in. At the time, the action was pretty decent, but now it seems high. Last night I think I measured the action at the highest fret (19th fret?) to be about 5/32", but I don't remember what it was at the 12th fret -- probably closer to 1/8". I still have not put the old saddle in, as it never really started buzzing. I also checked the neck with a long straight-edge along the frets, but I didn't know what I was looking for. It seemed that, while there was some gap on the middle frets, it wasn't outrageous.

So...my question: what could this be? Neck relief? Even more over-humidification than last year? An odd angle on the neck? Again, when I took it from the shop at the end of last summer, it played fine and had reasonable action. More importantly than identifying the problem (though related nonetheless), is the question of how I address this. Is there any DIY fix or will it involve bringing it somewhere for repair?

Input appreciated.

[Heywood Jablomie]

I have an A & L dread, pretty much the same as a Seagull. If you're using a bona fide straight edge, then the neck apparently has some relief, which should be minimal to none. Sounds like the truss rod needs to be tightened up a tad, with the guitar in normal tune. Do it 1/8 turn at a time, checking with your straight edge after each tweak. If the action of the low E at the 12th fret is in fact 1/8" (8/64"), that's not exceedingly high for an acoustic, althought it may be possible to have it a bit lower without excessive buzz. For each 1/64" of action you want to lower, sand 2/64" off the bottom of the saddle, using 150 grit sandpaper. Draw a line along the bottom of the saddle, marking how much you want to take off. With the sandpaper flat on a table, hold the saddle between your thumb and index finger, running it against the sandpaper. Here's further instructions for the saddle adjustment:

http://www.ehow.com/how_4881425_lowe...ic-guitar.html

If you feel comfortable trying these things, go for it. If you mess up the saddle, you can always get a new one. Actually, I advise you to buy and modify a new Tusq saddle, so that if you mess it up, you have the original saddle to fall back on.

The nice thing about doing it yourself is that you can adjust the saddle height in stages until you get the action where you want it. Good luck.

[Eric***]

Excellent. Much appreciated.

I think I'll try the neck relief first and see what that gives me.

[Heywood Jablomie]

Note: Check your relief with the straight edge below the 14th fret, because there's often a slight hump or dip where the neck joins the body (normal).

[markb]

Check relief using the first fret and the last fret clear of the body as Heywood suggests. If that doesn't help you'll need to adjust action at either the nut or the saddle.
If the nut's too high it'll show up as notes playing sharp on the first few frets. Cutting the slots a bit deeper will fix this. If it plays in tune, leave well alone.
If it's the saddle, you can sand down the base to lower the action. Put the sandpaper on a flat surface and move the saddle across it keeping it straight and level. A tiny amount at a time is the way to go here.
If all else fails, it could be the neck angle. This is definitely a job for a pro.

[Duffy]

I have a S6 Seagull too. Love it. It is a twentieth or some year anniversary model and it has a solid spruce top and is awesome and beautiful.

I always thought the action was a little too high but the techs told me that it is set just right and that acoustics should have a higher action than electrics in order to sound right, not get string slap, etc.

I would still like it lower, string slap or whatever. I might like some string slap, especially if I get it when I really dig in. Sometimes some of that string buzz and slap is a good thing, in slight amounts. It adds to the sound. Listen to Neil Young. He gets all kinds of vibes out of his acoustics. Then of course we are talking about one of the best players in the world, in possession of playing methods and skills and abilities that are extremely developed and expert and even in some cases unconventional. These awesome masters are capable of getting sounds that are completely unachievable to the vast majority of players. But we can still enjoy our playing and get our soul into our playing and even sound really good, relatively speaking. I know I'm becoming more of a master all the time. You play every day and work on your vibes and you get a lot better. You study theory ideas and practical methods and work some of the ideas into your style and you get better.

I hope you get that S6 rollin' real well. I know how much I like mine.

I also have a very inexpensive Samick Jumbo that is an awesome player. Jumbo acoustics are really cool and definitely different animals from regular acoustics. Glad I got such a beautiful one for such a great price, like 175 or so, new. Laminated, but laminated is not always a bad thing. Very durable and mine sounds really awesome and is really fun to play.

[evenkeel]

Have not looked in for a while. Dropped in today and saw this post. Let me clarify a few things.

First, action is not adjusted via the truss rod. A truss rod only adjusts the amount of neck relief. Most, but not all acoustic players like a small amount of relief. When a guitar string is plucked and is vibrating away, the largest range of motion is in the middle. So... a bit more breathing room, via relief, results in better tone and volume. The factory spec for Martin is a maximum of .010". Gibson .012".

Assuming the neck is set properly and the top has not bowed to excess then the action is adjusted at the saddle and nut. The saddle is easy to adjust, the nut less so. Martins factory specs for action at the 12 fret are.
High E 1/16" - 5/64"
Low E 3/32" - 7/64".

A good tutorial on adjusting action at the saddle.
http://frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician...raction01.html.

also at frets.com a tutorial for checking action at the nut.
http://frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician...nutaction.html

[markb]

I'll agree that the truss rod is not normally used to adjust action. But a neck with a large forward bow (= too much relief) will appear to have a high action. I still think it's worth checking first before breaking out the edged tools.

[Eric***]

First, action is not adjusted via the truss rod. A truss rod only adjusts the amount of neck relief. Most, but not all acoustic players like a small amount of relief. When a guitar string is plucked and is vibrating away, the largest range of motion is in the middle. So... a bit more breathing room, via relief, results in better tone and volume. The factory spec for Martin is a maximum of .010". Gibson .012".

Point taken, and I happened across some guides saying the same things while checking for the best way to adjust the truss rod. However, to Mark's point, I figured the truss rod needing adjustment might be why it looked to have high action.

After making some tweaks to the truss rod (1/8 turn in either direction) and not seeing the problem corrected, I realized that I'm petrified of screwing up something, since I think this has a double truss rod. I'm going to take it in eventually and see what my regular luthier can do.

[evenkeel]

Relief is very easy to check. Simply put on a capo on the first fret, then press the low E string where the neck meets the body. Probably at the 14th. fret. You have now created a straight edge and can measure the gap between the fretboard and the string. If you have two capos use them at both points, it's a lot easier. A feeler gauge will give you an exact reading, but just looking will probably tell you if you have an excessive amount of bow.

[Eric***]

As an update, I took it in last night and the guy said it's totally normal action and relief, maybe a tiny bit of bow to the neck.

I guess I've just been playing too much electric guitar lately and want electric action on an acoustic. Oops...

Anyway, things are A-OK on this end. Thanks for the help.

[gregsguitars]

It can be achieved.The action on an acoustic is done by a new nut and bridge saddle. As for truss rod adjustments, never turn every which way, go in one direction , very small ,1/8 inch turn at most and wait at least 24 hours to see any results.