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Thread: Input levels into the mixer

  1. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by guitardan777
    A few suggestions:

    To see if your pedal rig is putting out enough signal, just plug it in w/ a short guitar cable directly to the mixer (no snake, no cables over 25 ft.)
    If the signal level is fine then the problem lies in the 'Line Loss' from trying to run it throught the snake / or cables longer than 25'.
    If the signal level is still too low, then you'll need a device like a line driver or clean booster to get the signal up.

    Impeadance matching is most important when running a long line or though a snake. Your pedals are a HiZ out. So if you want to run it through a snake w/ or w/out a DI, LoZ is the way to run to the board. You can get Hi to Lo Z adapters for both ends. Or just one to convert the pedal(s) output to LoZ and use the XLR LoZ in at the board.
    I'll check out the mixer direct-input thing. Good idea.

    For the impedance part, I was going through a DI box before the snake, which should drop it down to balanced LoZ, then the snake input was HiZ. I checked to make sure all other connections were similarly bridged connections (LoZ -> HiZ), and I'm pretty sure they were, so the voltage (i.e. signal) should have been preserved.

    In the end, I gave up and will keep dragging my monitor in the immediate future. We're just not set up with proper monitoring capability to do ampless just yet. It would be fighting a major uphill battle at present. Still, a good chance to learn. Thanks for the ideas.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudman
    Does anyone read the original post?
    Guitars: Gibson LP Studio, MIA Fender Precision, Carvin C350
    Amps: Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0 + Avatar B212 / Genzler 12-3, Acoustic B20
    Pedals: Pod HD500X, Diamond Compressor, Tech 21 VT Bass, Sonic Research Turbo Tuner

  2. #21
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    Does the DI have an XLR out or is it a 1/4" balanced?
    If its 1/4" balanced it will have a TRS type of jack. (Tip Ring Sleve) which looks like a stereo plug or jack. If that's the case, then you can just use a converter cable or plug to mate it up w/ the XLR input on the snake.

    HiZ & LoZ are really the spec of a devices input or output.
    So you could run a LoZ output through a snakes 1/4" jack, but at the other end (mixer) that would have to go though gender bender to connect back to an XLR LoZ input. They do make a TRS to XLR adapter / cable that may be the easiest way to connect it up right.

    See: http://accessories.musiciansfriend.c...ble?sku=336971

    Or: http://accessories.musiciansfriend.c...ter?sku=339519

    It's all about the impeadance matching or you'll definatly knock your signal down to un-usable levels.

  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by guitardan777
    Does the DI have an XLR out or is it a 1/4" balanced?
    If its 1/4" balanced it will have a TRS type of jack. (Tip Ring Sleve) which looks like a stereo plug or jack. If that's the case, then you can just use a converter cable or plug to mate it up w/ the XLR input on the snake.

    HiZ & LoZ are really the spec of a devices input or output.
    So you could run a LoZ output through a snakes HiZ or 1/4" jack, but at the other end (mixer) that would have to go though gender bender to connect back to an XLR LoZ input.

    It's all about the impeadance matching or you'll definatly knock your signal down to un-usable levels.
    The DI is 1/4" input, XLR low-impedance, balanced output. I go from that into a high-impedance XLR input on the snake. The other end of the snake (in the sound booth) has a low-impedance output, and is plugged in via 1/4" connector to a high-impedance input on the mixer.

    From what I've read, this is not actually "impedance matching", but rather a "bridged connection". Impedance matching involves having the same impedance values for both source and load, which results in maximum power/current transfer, but minimal (virtually zero if my estimates are correct) voltage transfer. In the age of line level and reamplification, pretty much everything is bridged.

    I could be wrong on that second paragraph, but what I've read and my current understanding leads me to that conclusion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudman
    Does anyone read the original post?
    Guitars: Gibson LP Studio, MIA Fender Precision, Carvin C350
    Amps: Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0 + Avatar B212 / Genzler 12-3, Acoustic B20
    Pedals: Pod HD500X, Diamond Compressor, Tech 21 VT Bass, Sonic Research Turbo Tuner

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    The DI is 1/4" input, XLR low-impedance, balanced output. I go from that into a high-impedance XLR input on the snake. The other end of the snake (in the sound booth) has a low-impedance output, and is plugged in via 1/4" connector to a high-impedance input on the mixer.
    The DI's XLR output is LoZ, the snake has 'No Z' just connections and wire.
    The output end of the snake in the sound booth should just go to an XLR mic input and your done !!
    But you are converting it to a 1/4" and plugging it into the HiZ in on the board. This is where your mis-match is. If you need to plug it into a HiZ in, then you need a 'matching transformer' to convert it to HiZ.

    Something like this: http://accessories.musiciansfriend.c...mer?sku=330710

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by guitardan777
    The DI's XLR output is LoZ, the snake has 'No Z' just connections and wire.
    The output end of the snake in the sound booth should just go to an XLR mic input and your done !!
    But you are converting it to a 1/4" and plugging it into the HiZ in on the board. This is where your mis-match is. If you need to plug it into a HiZ in, then you need a 'matching transformer' to convert it to HiZ.

    Something like this: http://accessories.musiciansfriend.c...mer?sku=330710
    We have this:

    http://www.roland.com/products/en/S-0816/index.html

    I thought I read in the manual for it that it had HiZ inputs and LoZ outputs, but maybe I'm wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudman
    Does anyone read the original post?
    Guitars: Gibson LP Studio, MIA Fender Precision, Carvin C350
    Amps: Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0 + Avatar B212 / Genzler 12-3, Acoustic B20
    Pedals: Pod HD500X, Diamond Compressor, Tech 21 VT Bass, Sonic Research Turbo Tuner

  6. #25
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    Okay maybe I missed it early on, didn't realize you are using a 'Digital Snake'

    Skimming through the manual, I see that there is a gain adjustment available for each channel. Have you palyed around w/ that to try to optimize your signal?

    This is copied out of the manual, and it tells me that you still treat the inputs and outputs with respect to the device's (Instrument & Mixer) impeadance.

    To connect unbalanced sources:

    • use a direct box—such as the BOSS DI-1—or balancing adaptor in-line
    —or—
    • a cable adaptor with the following wiring: fig.6-27.eps

    To connect high-impedance sources—such as the output of an electric guitar or bass with passive pickups—use a direct box or impedance-matching tansformer in-line.

    When connecting unbalanced sources that require long cable runs (over 6 meters), a direct box or balancing adaptor placed in-line near the source is recommended for the best audio quality and noise rejection.


    You are using a DI with an XLR LoZ output. So your stage setup should be fine. Check the gain on the snake channel and make sure you are matching the LoZ output of the snake to the input of the mixer. (hi or Lo)

  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by guitardan777
    Okay maybe I missed it early on, didn't realize you are using a 'Digital Snake'

    Skimming through the manual, I see that there is a gain adjustment available for each channel. Have you palyed around w/ that to try to optimize your signal?

    This is copied out of the manual, and it tells me that you still treat the inputs and outputs with respect to the device's (Instrument & Mixer) impeadance.

    To connect unbalanced sources:

    • use a direct box—such as the BOSS DI-1—or balancing adaptor in-line
    —or—
    • a cable adaptor with the following wiring: fig.6-27.eps

    To connect high-impedance sources—such as the output of an electric guitar or bass with passive pickups—use a direct box or impedance-matching tansformer in-line.

    When connecting unbalanced sources that require long cable runs (over 6 meters), a direct box or balancing adaptor placed in-line near the source is recommended for the best audio quality and noise rejection.


    You are using a DI with an XLR LoZ output. So your stage setup should be fine. Check the gain on the snake channel and make sure you are matching the LoZ output of the snake to the input of the mixer. (hi or Lo)
    Upping the gain on the snake was going to be my next attempt. Because we swap out guitar players from week to week, it means that someone else might be using that same input, so I wanted to see if I could resolve it completely on my end, but point taken.

    As I mentioned a couple of posts back, I'm putting this whole concept on the back burner a little bit until the church gets either a) enough wedges to allow for no amp or b) some in-ear monitors. It's just too hard to try to do it by myself with no regular sound person, unfortunately.

    Still, thanks very much for the help.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudman
    Does anyone read the original post?
    Guitars: Gibson LP Studio, MIA Fender Precision, Carvin C350
    Amps: Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0 + Avatar B212 / Genzler 12-3, Acoustic B20
    Pedals: Pod HD500X, Diamond Compressor, Tech 21 VT Bass, Sonic Research Turbo Tuner

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