Piezo bridge saddle pickups

[DeanEVO_Dude]

Ok, for all you modders, tinkerers, and anyone else who wants to pipe in:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Schaller-Piezo-A...item5d27f19af6

Has anyone out there installed a piezo bridge saddle pickup in their electric guitar? If so... how did you route the wiring, etc? how do you like it? what are your opinions?

I am curious about these, I would like an acoustic, but I have a hard time playing one due to the large body size (I had a Stratocoustic, liked it, but the sound was only ok). Alex Lifeson has a number of his guitars equiped with them so that he can do the "acoustic" stuff on stage, without having to swap guitars. Just askin'.

[deeaa*]

Unless it's some cheaper end copy guitar I'd rather not route anything but just use tape etc. to fix the leads etc. to the strap for instance out of sight...like you would with acoustic soundhole pickup. At least I'd use it like that for a while to see if it is a keeper.

Fwiw, I wouldn't expect a great sound...live playing, sure it's nice enough with some effects & such but...well I once used one in studio, and in the end we ended up using a normal tele instead d/i and mixed that to sound like an acoustic.

If you really want a nice acoustic sound, you need an acoustic...I had a nice Takamine w/piezo, soundhole mic as well, and I almost always used just the soundhole mic. Piezos are so hard to play in proper acoustic style, they need a softer touch, better for picking etc. but sucked IMO for rhythm. just my 2c.

[Robert****]

Never tried those, but I just got a Roland GK-3 pickup, and I'm now controlling synths with ease. Very cool.

[DeanEVO_Dude]

I'm not necessarilly looking for a "nice" acoustic sound, just cant get my arm and eyes around them to play well. I do like the Ibanez Talisman (sp?) acoustic guitar, kinda slim, very nice woods and colors...

I am just curious about the piezo pickups, I know they don't sound exactly like an acoustic, and they are more dynamic than regular magnetic pickups, gotta be someone that has installed one on a solid-body electric out there somewhere... hopefully on this board.

That Roland synth pickup is really cool, Robert. I saw a demo vid of one of the Fender Strats with it installed... Some of the coolist things about them was the variety of sounds (like a synth... DUH!) and that you could change the tuning "on the fly," like drop D, down half-step, open G, etc, without actually changing the tuning of the guitar.

[markb]

That'll be the VG strat. Someone here has one.

I've said it before and I'll say it again here. Piezo pickups DO NOT sound like acoustic guitars. They sound EXACTLY like piezo pickups.
For my money, adding them to an electric is more trouble than the end result is worth.

[hubberjub***]

The only electric guitar I've had with piezo pickups was my Music Man Petrucci. No, they don't sound like a miked acoustic, they sound like a piezo pickup. They sound the same as most plugged in acoustics. The way I've seen most people install the TOM style piezo bridge requires no routing of the guitar. They typically cut a notch in the pickup ring on the bridge pickup. You'll have to have a preamp of some sort installed. That can be done in a reversible fashion. You'll have to rewire the guitar so that it's electric pickups run through a single volume and tone control (or use stacked pots). You'll also need to run a stereo output jack so you can separate the signals using a y-cable. There are other people on this board who are far more experienced in this than I am.

[Eric***]

Sorry to awaken the dead here, but...what's a model of piezo you can buy to add to existing electric guitars? The ebay link is dead these days, but is this what you were talking about with the tune-o-matic bridge?

http://cgi.ebay.com/LR-Baggs-T-Bridg...item20b4da2e8f

My curiosity has been piqued recently, so I'm just checking things out.

[Duffy]

I have two hybrid electrics: a Peavey tele Gen EX Custom and a Schecter C1
E/A. Both of these have piezo bridge acoustic simulating pickups. I have a good acoustic amp and run these guitars stereo, although you can play both pickup types thru a regular guitar amp but it won't sound nearly as good, especially pure acoustic simulated.

The Schecter is an outstanding hybrid guitar and sounds more than twice as good as the Peavey. The acoustic sound is relatively good. The Peavey's acoustic sound is unconvincing. The Schecter is also semi hollow and has a swamp ash/mahogany body.

I would expect, based on my limitted experience, to find significant variance in piezo electric acoustic simulating bridge saddle pickups.

Both of my guitars have the pickups as standard features, installed at the factory, professionally.

Installing these yourself would be very difficult with the switching and controls. Having someone install them would also be quite a job, because most techs have not installed a lot of these, if any.

Also, they can be difficult and expensive to get worked on and are somewhat delicate systems.

I am thinking of disconnecting the piezo system on my Peavey tele so I can make more effective use of the twin humbuckers with the five way switch. Plus, with all of the connections and complicated circuit, I think that the tone of the humbuckers suffers. I want to change it to a straight humbucker guitar.

The Schecter is a real good sounding guitar and actually is useable in stereo and switching between the two modes - electric and simulated acoustic.

Another avenue: I have a jumbo acoustic guitar with a Dean Markley Pro Mag Grand humbucking sound hole piano black pickup permanently installed with a tail pin jack. This acoustic can be played thru any of my regular electric guitar amps and sounds great. It doesn't require an acoustic amp. I have two acoustic pre amps that work well with this pickup, one a Dean Markley, no affln. The humbucking pickup must be why it works so well with a regular electric guitar amp. The Pro Mag Grand is fifty dollars, new.

Hope this helps. I would think before I paid to have one of these piezo systems installed in an electric. A better idea might be to wait for a used Schecter or other reputable hybrid to show up used and try it out. You would probably be very happy with the Schecter C1 E/A because it does its job well, but everything is subjective and you might not like it at all.

[DeanEVO_Dude]

Sorry to awaken the dead here, but...what's a model of piezo you can buy to add to existing electric guitars? The ebay link is dead these days, but is this what you were talking about with the tune-o-matic bridge?

http://cgi.ebay.com/LR-Baggs-T-Bridg...item20b4da2e8f

My curiosity has been piqued recently, so I'm just checking things out.

Hi Eric, that is exactly what I was talking about. I never did install one of these, but there are some guitars with them (well, not that item, but a piezo bridge) installed available, some models of the Parker line come to mind... That kind of bridge is what Alex Lifeson uses on many of his guitars, instead of switching between an acoustic and electric on stage.

[Algonquin]

Go out and plug one of these in...
http://www.fender.com/products/searc...tno=0135000303

I think you will get much better results if you are playing through something that you would normally play an acoustic with. I find I get a much nicer sound if I play through my JC120 over tube amps, and I can get a better sound when I use a pedal like the Boss AC-2 as well.

[DeanEVO_Dude]

Go out and plug one of these in...
http://www.fender.com/products/searc...tno=0135000303

I think you will get much better results if you are playing through something that you would normally play an acoustic with. I find I get a much nicer sound if I play through my JC120 over tube amps, and I can get a better sound when I use a pedal like the Boss AC-2 as well.

That, my friend, is a nice guitar... When I first saw the post, I thought the link would be to the (obligatory) Roland Strat... To my supprise, a Deluxe Nash Power Tele pops up... With exactly the kind of bridge (albiet in a Tele form factor) that is the topic of discussion in this thread... Do I understand that you have one? If so, you say the piezo bridge sounds better through a quality, clean solid state amp vs. a tube amp? That is very good information, good indeed. I've seen the AC-2 and the AC-3 (as well as the Behringer clone), and have thought about getting one, since I can't seem to actually play an accoustic guitar - something about the size of them gets me... Have you tried the AC-3 (current version available new)? Thoughts?
Thanks.

[Algonquin]

Hi Scott.

Under each saddle piece is a Fishman Piezo transducer pickup. There is a separate volume control that can be blended with the guitars magnetic pickup if desired.

I've had this guitar for just over three years now. It works well for me for many different styles of music, and I believe having something versitile was one of the reason's you were looking into piezo's in the first place. The stereo input jack on mine has been flaky, and I've had to tweak it a few times to ensure it makes good contact with the cable. Time for me to just get a quality replacement and be done with it.

I don't find I get a great sound when plugged through a tube amp, but I've had good luck with it through my JC120 which is a very neutral amp as far as colouring your sound goes.

The AC-2 I have was purchased 2nd hand, and I don't think I'd want to pay full price for a new one... but if you can find one used at a decent price, look into one. I've never tried the AC-3, but imagine it's a decent unit.

If you can find a place to try out this guitar, then look for a used one it might me a better alternative to modding an existing guitar. A used Tele 2 years down the road will likely get you close to what you paid if you decide to move onto something else.

I wish I had some recording software set up on my pc at the moment and I'd record something quick and dirty for you, but I don't right now... sorry.

[DeanEVO_Dude]

Hi Scott.
...

If you can find a place to try out this guitar, then look for a used one it might me a better alternative to modding an existing guitar. A used Tele 2 years down the road will likely get you close to what you paid if you decide to move onto something else.

Yes, I agree with that first part whole heartedly... Always better to have a factory-installed rather than home-modified option... or at least professionally installed. Also a good point on the value of a used Tele. I can't say that I have ever played an electric guitar with a piezo bridge installed, plugged in the accational accoustic guitar, but for very brief and few times. I think that I will have to find one in a local music store somewhere and test one out. Thanks for the info.

[Duffy]

This is a Schecter C-1 E/A with piezo electric bridge saddles. A sophisticated stereo system with mix function. It has a single stereo jack that combines all signals from the humbuckers as well as the piezos when plugged into an electric guitar amp.

Compared to my Peavey tele type with dual full sized humbuckers and the piezo electric saddles this Schecter sounds incredibly better.

I also installed nickel platted Seymour Duncan humbuckers; a JB and a 59. These sound super great. This guitar is awesome and looks better than the picture.

One note however, these guitars with stereo outputs do not sound up to their full potential thru regular electric guitar amps, solid state or tube, only.

You need to get an acoustic amp and run the piezo cable to the acoustic amp. When you balance the two amps, electric and acoustic, in stereo you get an incredible blendable sound; and you can switch to either acoustic or electric and it sounds great.

This guitar sounds great set to acoustic simulation only, thru my Crate sixty watt solid state acoustic Gunnison amp. It does a fair immitation of a quality acoustic electric sound. My Peavey tele piezo/HB hybrid guitar does not sound even close to this Schecter.

Therefore, it is obvious that there are great differences in the quality and sound of the piezo systems in various electric/acoustic guitars.

Plus, you might want to seriously consider getting an acoustic amp if you are planning on getting one of these Fender Nashville Power Telecasters or another hybrid electric acoustic - this way you will be able to enjoy the acoustic tone as it is designed to sound. Regular guitar amps do not do the acoustic simulating section any type of justice when compared to a good acoustic amp - that is why they are stereo guitars.

Hooked up stereo to a good acoustic amp and a good electric amp, a good hybrid electric/acoustic guitar will sound very good. Plugged straight into an electric guitar amp you will not get even close to the potential sound the guitar is capable of.

I would say, first of all, make sure you get a real good electric/acoustic hybrid guitar to begin with, because there is substantial variance in quality, as noted between my Schecter and Peavey. I would think that Fender did a good job with theirs, but I would try it first and also play it thru an acoustic amp.

I have a regular Fender Nashville tele and it is an awesome and very enjoyable guitar.

It is definitely interesting to play a quality hybrid electric/acoustic stereo guitar. They are capable of a beautiful range of tones.

Good luck with your search for a good one.

[guitarify]

I'm building a telecaster at the moment that I plan to add the Graph Tech "Ghost" system to. What's cool is that later on I can add midi capability as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhGA1...eature=related

________________________________________________
www.guitarify.com

[Duffy]

More info on the "Ghost" piezo saddle system and the Schecter C-1 E/A:


The C-1 E/A combines the mellowness of a vintage style hollowbody with a truly acoustic tone from a piezo pickup element located in the bridge of the guitar. This bridge was made by TonePros and features the Graph Tech (a different company) Ghost Piezo pickup. The pickup produces a very real sounding acoustic guitar tone similar to that of an electric-acoustic or a miked acoustic. It’s made of a specially made ceramic crystal that is placed in the bridge ‘saddles’. The saddles are where the strings rest on the bridge of a guitar.
Instead of transmitting the string vibrations back into the guitar’s body through the bridge it is picked-up by the piezo elements in the saddles. Each saddle has its own wire that is connected to an internal pre-amp and switching matrix. The switching matrix is simply a 3-way switch which allows you to hear the humbuckers, piezo, or both. Each pickup has its own output as well so each can be amplified using different settings or amps. It uses a stereo 'Y' cable to carry both the guitar signals. This is a stereo 1/4 inch male that plugs into the guitar and has two 1/4 inch mono cables coming out. One output carries the humbucker(s) while the other has the piezo pickup.
Both the humbuckers and piezo pickups can be combined together or played separately. You could for instance have the acoustic sound right below that of the humbucker where the humbucker is distorted and contains some reverb or delay. The sound from the piezo pickup could then be used to add more definition. Even though the Ghost pickup saddles can be installed without the preamp Schecter has used the Acousti-Phonic preamp which allows you to split the two guitar signals. The preamp uses a 9-volt battery and is activated when a guitar cable is plugged into the ¼ inch input. You can also use the stereo ‘Y’ cable or a normal mono instrument cable. The guitar output is wired so it will convert both signals to mono if a mono cable is used.
The body of the guitar is made of Mahogany and has a quilted Maple top and features two ‘f’ hole opening that give the guitar its semi-hollow design. Mahogany has a deeper tone than that of say Alder or Basswood. There is a Crème colored binding that surrounds the body which gives the guitar a very elegant look. The Ghost piezo pickups also lend to its acoustic/electric appeal. It’s available in Dark Vintage Sunburst which is semi transparent and really allows the Maple top to stand out. The neck is set in to the body (Glued in not bolted in). As mentioned the bridge is a TonePros TOM type (Tune-O-Matic O-Matic) with the Graph Tech Ghost Piezo pickups installed.
The 25.5 inch scale length neck is made of Mahogany and has a Rosewood fretboard. There are 22 Jumbo frets on the fretboard as well as Split-Crown inlays used as position markers. There’s also a crème colored binding around the neck and headstock. The neck is glued in to the body and features Schecter’s Ultra-Access which allows greater access to the upper frets of the guitar. Being a glued in or ‘Set-In’ neck allows the body/neck joint to be sculpted for greater access (Ultra-Access). On the headstock are Grover Tuners which have been sealed and lubricated and will never require lubricating. They have an 18 to 1 ratio and will keep your guitar in tune for years.
As mentioned the electronics consist of the Tone Pro bridge which has a Graph Tech piezo pickup. There are 4 control knobs where the top two are used for as the Master Volume and Master Tone for the humbuckers while the bottom two are used for the Master Volume and Tone for the Ghost pickup. The humbucker tone knob is the push/pull type which allows you to access the tapped humbucker for a single coil (strat) sound. There is also a set of Seymour Duncan Designed HB-102 humbuckers used. These pickups have been based on their (Seymour Duncan) US made SH-4 JB and SH-2n Jazz humbucker combination. They use Alnico5 magnets and have a hotter winding specification. There are actually two 3-way switches on the guitar. The one located above the neck pickup is used to select between the humbuckers while the switch located below the tailpiece is used to switch between which pickups will be output: piezo, humbucker, or both. The 3-way pickup selector is wired in the traditional configuration: bridge, bridge+neck, and neck. The Push/Pull knob simply turns off the two middle-most single coils.
Features

• Hollowbody design with f-holes
• 2 Duncan Designed humbuckers
• Graph Tech Ghost Piezo pickup system
• Mixed or separate signal operation
• Quilted maple top
• Bound mahogany body
• 25.5 Inch Scale Length Mahogany neck
• 22 fret rosewood fingerboard
• Grover tuners
• TonePros bridge

[DeanEVO_Dude]

I'm building a telecaster at the moment that I plan to add the Graph Tech "Ghost" system to. What's cool is that later on I can add midi capability as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhGA1...eature=related

________________________________________________
www.guitarify.com

That system is very impressive... Especially the Hammond... very cooool

[guitarify]

That system is very impressive... Especially the Hammond... very cooool

Hopefully it lives up to the hype. I'll probably do a review on my site(www.guitarify.com) once I have it installed and tested, but that's probably a few months away. All I have is a solid mahogany body at this point. I'm planning on doing a 72 Deluxe type build. I figure that huge pickguard will give me lots of room to rout out extra space for the ghost system.

________________________________________________
www.guitarify.com