Can you identify this EPI model?

[drsyn67]

I picked up an Epiphone Les Paul today for $25.00 cash with a SKB hardshell case. I'm guessing this is what Epiphone turned into the Les Paul 100s or Juniors, but it does not have any model name on it - just a serial number that places it as a Chinese factory product from either 2002 or 1992? (The serial number is MC21090997 and is on the back plate at the joint). It has no binding, one tone and one volume switch, with a toggle in-between. The most unique aspect of it is the E logo on the headstock - it is gold colored in a red circle with very art deco wings on either side of it.

The truss rod and nut are all one piece, the neck feels like a Telecaster, and the headstock is odd. The tuners are not Grovers. (I don't think I've found anything special - I'm sure this was bottom of the barrel EPI product)... I'm just hoping someone has some details on this model. The guitar had at least two-dozens stickers on it and it was a hassle to clean! (The Fret uploader is not accepting photos - so I will try to use the Quick Upload option and see if this displays the photos). Thanks in advance for your input!

[Duffy]

That is a nice looking old guitar.

You might want to oil the fretboard with some lemon oil or something and get some strings on there so that neck has the right tension on it. I imagine you have the bridge and tailpiece.

I don't believe it is good to let a neck sit without strings on it. It might get a mind of its own and decide to do its own thing, much to your consternation.

Hopefully it has not sat without strings for a long period of time.

I usually even change strings one at a time, and tune each one roughly up so that the neck retains the same fundamental tension on it. On a difficult to notice level the neck changes its orientation from being tensioned by the strings to being totally untensioned. Hopefully it will move back into the correct orientation when it gets retensioned.

I'm not sure how true this concept is, but I believe it to be correct and I stopped removing all the strings at one time when restringing because of this theoretical characteristic.

I'm not trying to tell you what to do, it's your guitar - you can do whatever you want with it. I'm just sharing something I heard, and realize you are probably cleaning or replacing the parts and have every intention of stringing it without much delay.

I think that is a real nice looking Epi, worth fixing up. It's definitely not a model I've ever seen.

[deeaa*]

Pretty colour!

As for the no tension on neck...I do the same as Duffy does, one string at the time so the tension stays, and clearly no no string tension on the neck lets the neck settle differently and it takes time to 'get back' when you string it up...but, in the end I don't believe there's usually a difference if it's for five minutes or five years. When the neck is without string tension, it's just how it was made, i.e. how the wood naturally is, relaxed...it can stay that way for basically forever and be OK. But when you string it up, it can take anything from 10 minutes to a week or more to settle to a new tensioned state, that's for sure.

I know for a fact that guitar builders have lots and lots of necks, without string tension, in storage for any given time to no ill effects, so I don't think in the long run it does any harm. But short-term it does. AND I suppose, if for some reason the neck had been adjusted for super-thick strings and that had to be compensated with truss rod being extremely tight so the neck is warped to a hump when not stringed, well that could spell some trouble. But at least all my necks are exactly straight and the truss rod quite lax when there aren't any strings.

One thing that can, AFAIK, ruin a neck, is storaging a guitar so that it always rests in a position where there is external pressure on the neck. Like laying a Les Paul on even floor so it rests on headstock and end of body only, now that can warp the neck given enough time.

At a music school I was in for a few years back in the day they had these 70's Gibson Les Pauls hanging from the wall in one studio - they had been there since the 70's and pretty much always hung there for 25 years unless needed for studio recording now and then. And the hooks were such that the guitar's own weight pulled the neck a little, and _both_ the guitars had a really strange neck bow that could not be corrected with truss rod. They were bowed so that the bow began right at the first two frets, so even when the rest of the neck was straight, it 'rose up' at the first frets slightly, making it impossible to get a good action on them any more.

Since that I decided _not_ to hang my tiltnecks only by the neck; I hang them so that the fretboard lies flat against the wall if I do, but am not sure if even that is a very good idea.

So while I do believe it's definitely best keep guitars stringed and at tension, I still believe that no irreversible damage is to be expected in most cases if a guitar lacks strings for any given time, as long as there is no other pressure on the neck. Best be safe on that if you can affect storage methods, but not a big concern IMO if you are buying a guitar in parts or sans strings.

[Eric***]

Huh. So this whole post begs the question: how do you store guitars for long periods of time? In the case? In a stand? On the wall? Now I'm paranoid...

[Jx2]

Id say thats a form of a Les Paul II, Ive seen that headstock before but can recall the information.

As for how to store them. I think the main thing is to keep it clean and controll the humidity. A case will make those 2 things easier to controll. But I dont think there is anything wrong with hanging them on a wall or on stands. The down side is you will need to clean them more often and pay attention to the set ups when the temp changes. My living room is done in a music theme, have framed posters of Jimi, Led, Dime and others as well as 4 guitars on wall hangers. But then again my best guitars are only mid ranged $400-$500 models. If I had a Gibson Les Paul standard or something of that nature Id probably store it in the case. Even with that said though, a friend of mine had 6 diffrent Peavy EVH models one that was actually owned by EVH himself and he hung all of his in his music room. So again it comes down to just keeping them clean and set up correctly.

[Andy]

loosen the strings down a step, I always store my guitar(s) in it's case.
this is what esp recomends atleast

[Andy]

The wing logo from the epiphone "E"series.

these guitars were aimed at the beginner guitar market and were slightly smaller than norm to suit smaller players better. they were also given names like

demon,slasher,bully...ect..I belive the the LP shaped one is called "the basher"

[deeaa*]

Yeah case is IMO always the best, and then on its side probably rather than lying flat.

And there is nothing wrong with hanging 90% of guitars, but I'd not do it for years on end with heavy tiltnecks. Fenders, other straights, one of the better options.

I have a 5 guitar stand where the guitar stands sideways on two soft bars, leans back towards the wall (the bass side) to the side and gently rests between cushioned bars at the neck.

Seats 5 axes in 3 feet wide space very securely and no tensions anywhere.

[Eric***]

Yeah I've seen those racks before. Maybe I'll look into one of those. Of course, then I'd need somewhere to put it. Stupid lack of space...

[deeaa*]

Here's one bigger:

http://www.thomann.de/gb/rockstand_rs20863.htm

The thing is, it takes surprisingly little space sideways...but surprisingly much depthwise. It can't be right at the wall or the headstocks hit the wall...

[drsyn67]

This is why I love forums... you seek one answer and get not only what you're looking for, but also extensive discussions into product, storage, cleaning, etc...

The guitar, identified by devoted fretter ANDY as an Epiphone 'E' Series "Basher" (Thanks Andy!), did come with strings! I have enjoyed the extensive discussion on storage and the need for them... The guitar was covered with dozens of stickers (even on the fretmarkers) and I had to remove the hardware and strings to get them off (and to clean it with Goo Gone... worked like a charm and smelled like an orange). I am going to put new strings on it and have to replace the input jack / plug...

I greatly appreciate everyone helping me nail down what this model is... the color is called "Blood Stain" and it was manufactured in 2001-2002. INteresting info here on the E series guitars:

http://epi.p3net.net/wiki/index.php/E-Series

[DeanEVO_Dude]

I thought this might be interesting, though, not helpful in identifying the guitar model...

http://cosprings.craigslist.org/msg/1979058981.html

[drsyn67]

I found someone selling the same guitar for $200 on Ebay. Like I said, I didn't expect this to be worth anything... to give you an idea of how cheap it was made, the nut and truss rod are one piece! Now that is bad!!!! I'll put $30 into fixing it up and likely sell it for not much more (I bought it for the case).

I thought this might be interesting, though, not helpful in identifying the guitar model...

http://cosprings.craigslist.org/msg/1979058981.html

[deeaa*]

the nut and truss rod are one piece! Now that is bad!!!!

Huh? How do you mean? Do you mean the rod cover???

[drsyn67]

Yes, sorry... dropped out a word. The truss rod cover and nut are the same piece. Same piece of... HA.

Huh? How do you mean? Do you mean the rod cover???

[deeaa*]

Well, that's pretty amazing anyhow! Any chance of separating them? I tend to adjust my truss pretty often, I'd hate to screw up with the nut every time :-)

[drsyn67]

Well, that's pretty amazing anyhow! Any chance of separating them? I tend to adjust my truss pretty often, I'd hate to screw up with the nut every time :-)

The truss rod cover and nut are one piece. Really screams horrible craftsmanship, I think. But I'm told these E Series Les Pauls have lots of great feedback and natural distortion (maybe that's why?).... so if I ever get around to getting the input jack fixed, I may be in love with it.