Culminating an appreciation . . .

[Nelskie]

For me, 69SL's recent post about the Hendrix Strat stirred some interesting thoughts - most especially those involved with the appreciation of vintage gear. While this has been addressed in various shapes and forms in other threads, I have always found it interesting to see how vintage gear hounds culminated their own interests / opinions about that which is vintage.

Early 80's metal was at the headwaters of my first gear-buying experiences, and like most kids around that time, I had a part-time job at a fast-food restaurant, and barely eeked out enough bones to set myself up with my first rig. Thoughts about owning / playing vintage gear were about as far from my mind as me mastering EVH's two-handed tapping technique, which at the time, was THE rage.

Anyways, I was perfectly happy playing entry-level guitars and solid-state amps for my initial foray into the world of guitar, and things remained that way for about (7) years or so - all of which would bring us to right around 1990, and my discovery of the blues. Spear-heading my transformation into the realm of "vintage" was none other the bearded wonder himself - the Right Reverend Billy F. Gibbons. As I immersed myself in the early ZZ catalog, I became more cognizant of the variances in tone between his material, and the omnipresent metal sound I'd been so accustomed to. I mean really, if you're talking about a kick-a$$, bluesy, vintage rock tone - who better to usher you into that realm that The Rev?

Naturally, I was intent on finding out what kind of gear he used to create those sounds, and that, in short, was how I found out that my "grail tone" was not going to found in stacks of shiny, solid-state amplifiers - but rather, in crusty old relics from the past. Yeah, that was quite a news flash to me - esp. since custom-painted Charvels and 200W rated thunder-stacks were the most prominent features of the landscape during my formative playing years. A few years later, I would trade in my Yamaha 112II for my first all-tube amp, and the rest is pretty much history. From that point on, vintage gear would play an integral part in the search for my own personal "grail tone" (which for me, is still a never-ending quest), as well as the development of my own playing style.

For some of our FN Senior Statesmen (isn't that much more dignified than "old"??!!, the vintage tone was THE tone when they started playing - and oh how I envy them. Yet, I always find it very interesting that the roads that lead to an appreciation of, or a desire to own, vintage gear are so very different. Many of our younger FN members are also starting to move along the various in-roads to the vintage world, and its really a lot of fun to share in the thrill and wonder of them buying their first Les Paul / Stratocaster, or playing a tube amp for the first time. That, and knowing the players, music, and history behind some of these rock n' roll gear staples makes it even more exciting. This point is perfectly illustrated by our FN brother Riley recently posting a clip of "Sunshine of Your Love". Hearing him capture some of that vintage Clapton mojo, and then combine it with his own style - to me, that's what's really awesome about the vintage thing - putting a fresh spin on something that's undoubtely influenced and has been an integral part of rock n' roll history - - which as guitar players - is our history.

While it might not be all that surprising that a Gen X'er and die-hard metal player like myself would eventually end up as a vintage gear fan, I do think that culminating an appreciation for it takes time. When you initially start playing, you probably aren't really familiar with terms like "Woman Tone", "Brown Sound", "Tweed", "Plexi", or "sag" - even though you probably know a lot of the artists that created music that is associated with them. As you become more familiar with gear as a whole, and the tones / sounds that they produce, you eventually assimilate some of these things into your own repetoire.

So how did it happen for you? What flipped your switch "on" to vintage gear? Was it a particular player or song? Did your buddy's dad have a crusty old Fender Tweed in the basement, that you and him would sneak down and play? Or maybe it hasn't even "happend" for you yet. Perhaps you're living your vintage dream vicariously though our forum. Tell us . . .

[Plank_Spanker]

When I started out, I was pretty much in the same boat. I had a zero budget and played whatever guitar and amp I could scrounge or cloodge together. I cringe when I think about that now, but I was happy as a clam then and playing my butt off. I always coveted Les Pauls and Strats, but never had the money to buy one.

In the early eighties, I had a little better budget and bought a Marshall and a cheap Les Paul copy. I was in heaven. I had a real rig! Alas, by the the late eighties, I was out of the game and sold everything but my guitars. I didn't seriously play again for almost ten years, and when I did, it was acoustic.

After a divorce in '99, I decided to get back into playing. I bought a Les Paul, a Strat, and a Johnson modeler. I re-honed my chops and joined the band I'm in now in 2000. I found that my tastes were really getting defined. I actually began to realize exactly what I was seeking in sound. The Johnson served me well, but I missed "old school" real tubes. I missed the warmth of them. I missed the touch response of them. I missed the sag when the amp really digs in. So, I bought my Germino a couple of years ago and have never looked back. I have an amp that oozes "vintage", without any of the reliability issues.

Not so much of a "vintage" story - more like a "traditionalist" story and getting back to my roots. I have a very eclectic collection of guitars, but chances are I'll have a Strat, Les Paul, or an SG on if you see me playing.

[SuperSwede]

I think that it was somewhat charming with those massive racks of effects and power amps...long haired guitarists with a tone better than their playing, those were the days. I wonder if future guitarists will consider that pink charvel hockey club guitar, the 4 reverb units, the digital preamps and the obligatory noise gate (you gotta keep down all the digital hiss) as the true vintage tone? Only time will tell :P

Oh, vintage.. right.. Well, I have been flipping that vintage "on" and "off" switch a couple of time. I started out with a 1 humbucker guitar with non original floyd rose. Not exactly a jazz box.
But since I was studying music my parents were nice enough to invest in a proper instrument and amp (when I were going to music college), a 1974 Les Paul and a silver face Twin. Those followed me a long way, but after a couple of years I had to sell the Twin (living in my first own apartment with not much money, and the tubes needed to be replaced and I couldn´t afford it then.. the twin has a lot of tubes!). I got an old Roland Jazz Chorus that I used a lot when I was in a bar touring band. I still love that old Jazz Chorus sound, its far from "sag" and "brown sound" but tasty clear and warm, just like a high quality solid state amp should be.

When I had met my wife and my first child was soon-to-be born I sold all my guitar stuff cause we needed the money (around 1998). I didnt play on them much anyway, I had lost the interest in guitars and the whole thing with playing "Sweet home alabama" in smoky shabby places got me fed up on music. I wasnt really playing much until I ran across Roberts site and found his telecaster review, I decided that I had to have one of those and bought one!
So vintage? Well, I have been exploring the vintage amp sounds a lot with the various computer/hardware modelers and even though I dont have a real vintage amp (or vintage guitar) I´m enjoying those amps from the past in my own way. I would love to get a vintage/reissue strat/tele/LP and amp one day, but for now I´m temporarily satisfied (apart from various g.a.s attacks that we all get from time to time).
As usual a very interesting topic Nelskie, even though I dont know if I had something of interest to add.

[jpfeifer]

Hi Nelskie,

Nice thoughts man. You should write for a magazine or something, you're good with words!

I guess I'm slightly older than some of the folks on this forum, for better or worse :-) My formative years in guitar were during the late 70's. During this time I had no clue about vintage equipment, tone, or anything. I could only afford used crappy guitars and solid state amps. Most of my tone came from cheap stomp boxes. I was perfectly happy just having something to plug in and play. I just wanted something to make some noise. Then one day my rich friend bought a Marshall and invited me over to try it out. It was a 100-watt head (plexi). It was really nice.

My first experience of having a tone so powerful that it raised the hair on the back of your neck. But, I could never afford equipment like that for years to come though.

Then during the very early 80's I started listening to Stevie Ray Vaughn. One of my friends lived in Austin and told me about him, and sent a cassete to me of a live radio performance. I had never heard anyone play a Strat like that ever in my life. (way cool). Then I started becoming interested in these old guitars that Stevie Ray used. That's when the bug bit me. I was convinced that this was part of the mojo that players like Stevie had from using these old beatup Strats, and Fender amps. When I finally got a change to actually play some old guitars I noticed right away how they had this different feel to them from being played so much.

Today, I still don't have any real vintage guitars or amps. But I bought the Clapton Strat, because it feels like a vintage strat. I also use a modeling amp so that I can imitate most of the classic sounds that I've liked over the years. I think that we have better equipment choices for guitarists than we have ever had. You can buy re-issues of all the classic guitars from the golden years of the 50s and 60s from Fender and Gibson. In addition, there are tons of great amps out there that mimic the tones of the classic amps.

-- Jim

[Spudman***]

When I started out in 1975 I was borrowing the other guitarists Vibrolux Reverb amp while he played a Peavey Roadmaster through a 4x12 cabinet. I was a small amph fry compared to him yet there was something magical about turning up that little Vibrolux. I used it for a lot of gigs until I stole his girlfriend (kidding). He kept suggesting that I get my own amph.

When I finally started making money sweeping the floor at the motorcycle shop the leader of another band I was in was a Kustom dealer and he talked me into the 135 watt solid state IIIL head with a 4x12 cabinet. Now I was in the same league as my friend with the Peavey. I ran a DynaComp and a Fender FuzzWah in front of that Kustom transistor amph. I could get all kinds of sounds and feedback at will with that setup, yet something was missing I thought. I sold that amph while on the road years later.

On to the next band...this was a hard rock band doing original music. I was all of 17 and the other guitarist was older and wiser and had a Peavey Mace all tube amph. Man! That amp could sing. I moved up to working on motorcycles, got a raise and played gigs for $ so I ordered a Marshall JMP 50 watt combo with 2 12's never having played one. I still have it. At that time I got a Tube Screamer and still used the DynaComp. WOW! What a combo. I took that amph and those pedals around the USA and Canada making money and seeing North America. The sound from that amph is what got me hired by other bands so I must have been on the right track.

From there I never looked back. Tubes all the way. I bought my Princeton Reverb in 1977 and still have it. It went along as a back up to the Marshall and as a practice amph. I have to say that now I think those amphs qualify as vintage. That is what drew me to the Epiphone Valve Jr. head. It was even more simple than the Marshall and very classic. Also the Peavey Classic 30 and 20 fit the mold too along with my Crate Vintage Club 5212. It's like the Marshall with better speakers, reverb and channel switching. It still fits that classic/vintage sound mold. No high gain amphs here.

Now I've got that vintage sound in a solid state box no bigger than an over sized wah wah pedal. Times and technology have brought solid state pretty close to those older tube amphs as far as tone and touch go. Still no high gain amphs for me. Why? Well first off they are really expensive and secondly I don't want one. All those classic amphs sound great by themselves and with a few pedals in front of them I have the high gain sound if I want it.

Sure tube amphs require you spending money on new tubes and biasing from time to time but you have to put gas in your car if you want to go somewhere too. Of all the tube amphs I own only the Valve Jr. has not been used to make money with.

So vintage/classic amphs to me are money in the bank (or guitar collection).

[duhvoodooman***]

I am at once an "old hand" and a "noob" on this subject. Certainly, my interest in music and guitars goes way back. I was 16 days shy of my 13th birthday when the Beatles made their landmark appearance on Ed Sullivan in Feb. 1964, and my (and many, many others of my generation's) world changed forever. From that point on, it was one "guitar hero" after another. Clapton in his Cream and Bluesbreakers days was a huge favorite. Hendrix, Beck, Page, Duane Allman and many more quickly followed. I bought my first guitar--a horrible used Kay acoustic--in '65. But as much as I would have loved to, I just didn't have the money for an electric guitar and amp. Summer job pay went directly into the college fund, and several hundred dollars on a guitar/amp rig wasn't in the cards. I did manage to upgrade from that Kay to a fairly nice Guild flat-top, and that guitar carried me through college.

It wasn't until I graduated and had my first job (late '73) that I finally had the money to buy my first electric guitar--a '71 Strat, vintage white with a maple neck that I bought used. I also had a small Fender amp (don't even remember the model now) that had a nice tone, but I knew absolutely nothing about amps and how to manipulate them at that time. It would have been great to join a band, but by this time I was working full-time and seeing my wife-to-be on weekends, since she had started vet school at Cornell University. So, now money wasn't the issue, it was free time. I played that Strat--and loved it--as much as possible, but after the neighbors in my apartment building called the cops about the noise for the second time, I decided to sell the guitar & amp. I briefly had a Gibson semi-hollowbody (no amp), but sold that and didn't own another electric for over 20 years. I always had an acoustic--that same Yamaha FG-300 in my forum signature had replaced the Guild in '78--but I played only occasionally. Life focused around job and family, and available spare time was used for other pursuits.

While living and working in the Lancaster PA area in the late 90's, I commented on several occasions to my wife (not the vet; she was long gone by this time) that I really wanted to get another Strat at some point and get back into guitar playing. God bless her, she acted on it before I got around to it, and located my '89 Strat Plus in a local music store in Lititz. The store owner threw in a cheap SS Fender amp with the guitar and I was back in business. The amp sounded like crap but, hey, at least I was rockin' again! But even then, I didn't play all that often.

What really got me heavily back into playing was the purchase of my Epiphone LP Standard late last year. I had wanted an LP since seeing Clapton playing one on the back of the "Beano" album, and Epiphone finally made it affordable enough for me to get one. But the real eye-opener for me was the incredible wealth of information on guitars and playing that I found on the internet when I began to research the LP purchase. Looking around for a decent amp, I quickly discovered the Vox Valvetronix series--not a "vintage amp" by any means, but newer technology that put the sound of several vintage amp models within reach. I don't think the S.E.G. came off my face for one second of the first several hours I played through it! I began to poke around on a couple of Valvetronix-related websites, and then one day one of them had a link to this "Fret.Net" place. OK, let's click on that link and check it out....

So began a serious case of GAS, as I read informative postings and picked the brains of several of you veteran guitarists around here. I discovered the joys of tube amps and effects pedals and snazzy pickups and fancy pickup/controls wiring and on and on and on....

So while I can't claim to have "vintage" guitars or amps, I do have come-lately versions of some vintage guitar models (there's a Strat, an LP, an ES-335 type, and a Tele in the house now!) and some new amps that feature vintage technology (Delta Blues & Valve Jr.) and sounds (AD30VT). And for my budget and play-at-home-for-my-own-enjoyment purposes, that is vintage enough for me! At 55 years of age, the most "vintage" thing I use to play guitar with are my fingers!

Anyway, guitar playing is a daily occurence now, and tone farming is one of my favorite pastimes! And I couldn't have gotten this far without you guys! So thanks for your voluminous knowledge and your willingness to share it!

[sunvalleylaw]

So while I can't claim to have "vintage" guitars or amps, I do have come-lately versions of some vintage guitar models (there's a Strat, an LP, an ES-335 type, and a Tele in the house now!) and some new amps that feature vintage technology (Delta Blues & Valve Jr.) and sounds (AD30VT). And for my budget and play-at-home-for-my-own-enjoyment purposes, that is vintage enough for me! At 55 years of age, the most "vintage" thing I use to play guitar with are my fingers!

Anyway, guitar playing is a daily occurence now, and tone farming is one of my favorite pastimes! And I couldn't have gotten this far without you guys! So thanks for your voluminous knowledge and your willingness to share it!

Awesome stories guys. Starting up playing music now after a long lay off since my piano days has been a good addition. I could easily suffer from GAS, but need to keep it real for now, and in proper relation to family life. VooDoo, your experience looking for what you like in the vintage sound but keeping it real inspires me. (Robert, with his accomplishments on modest equipment also amazes me). Also, I am glad to hear of your experience on the site. I look forward to learning all the things you can do with a strat and a Vox, and with a regular old acoustic. All of you, thanks for sharing your interest and knowledge, and your stories about your SEGs. I get 'em too doing this stuff.

[Plank_Spanker]

"Tone Farming".............................DVM, I love that!

[duhvoodooman***]

"Tone Farming".............................DVM, I love that!

I take no credit for the phrase--I first heard it from Nelskie, and have seen it in print elsewhere a couple of times since. Very descriptive phrase!

[Plank_Spanker]

"Vintage" gear is an acquired taste. Most "younger guns" plug into an old amp and run away going "WTF?"

The thing about those old school amps is that they need to played right along with the guitar. It's an eye opening experience for those accustomed to a pre-packaged, processed sound:

What you play is what you get - no mulligans. You need to master your touch in order to get that coveted amp to sing............................it's stripped down honest sound. You have to play the amp.

[Nelskie]

What you play is what you get - no mulligans. You need to master your touch in order to get that coveted amp to sing............................it's stripped down honest sound. You have to play the amp.

That's a good point, Spanky, and one that really does relate very closely to the vintage "thing". I recently came face-to-face with that fact when I plugged into my Epi Valve Jr. for the first time. Nothin' but your fingers and a guitar in-between what you hear. And that in and of itself is kinda' cool. Almost like a "challenge" - as in "show me what ya' got, boy!"

Modeling technology certainly has brought some of the "vintage" sounds into vogue, which is such a great thing. I could only imagine what might have happened if I'd have had access to modeled sounds of vintage Fender amps when I'd started playing back in '83. But I do now, and I must say that it's opened many new doors with my playing, as well as my enjoyment of music in general.

Hopefully, those who've read this post won't feel like they have to own, or have played a lot of vintage gear to respond. As a matter of fact, I find it hard to believe that I haven't seen a single post from some of our younger members. The vintage sound is everywhere you look, and has influenced just about everyone who's anyone in the world of rock - including modern day bands and players. John Frusciante of the RHCP is a vintage gear afficianado, and calls to duty several early 60's Strat for his main recording / performing instruments. Billy Joe from Green Day wields a Les Paul Jr., another Gibson goodie from yesteryear. Zakk Wylde (Black Label Society) has been a Les Paul / Marshall player from day one. Young John Mayer has given modern / contemporary music a much-needed shot in the arm with his infectious, bluesy Strat tones.

As good as modern gear may get, and I'm assuming that there are some things that lie on the horizon that'll drop jaws instantly, there's something to be said - - and learned - - from the gear of yesterday. It's what brought us to this point. And perhaps most importantly, that it's steady and unwavering pulse is still very close to some of today's greatest players and their music.

[Plank_Spanker]

Nelskie,

I've been playing since '72 and I cut my teeth on a group of those "vintage" amps. There's one point about those vintage amps that often gets ignored - pretty much there was just a few amps out in those days. The choice was slim and you did what you could do with what you could get your hands on. That also applies to the "big boys" at the time.

The "tone" that we covet is more a result of a player playing the amp and getting what he wanted from it, or settling for what it is.

We're now in the "Golden Age" of gear. There are so many choices to be made that our "vintage boys" never faced. The possibilities are bewildering..............

[Nelskie]

The "tone" that we covet is more a result of a player playing the amp and getting what he wanted from it, or settling for what it is.

"Settling for what it is" might be somewhat of a understatement, in regards to the part the amp played in the overall tonal equation. While there weren't the number of choices back in the day that there are today, what was there reads like the classic tonebanks on my PODxt. As in amps that changed the course of musical history - - Marshalls, Fenders, Voxes, Hiwatts, Gibsons, Supros, etc. These amps have gone from everyday status quo to elusive treasure in a mere point of 30-40 years, a fact that I myself find pretty amazing.

Although I realize that what you said might truly be the case for a lot of legendary players and their recordings, I cannot help but wonder what was going through Clapton's mind as he was laying down the guitar tracks for the Beano album. Was it "business as usual" for EC as he carved out what might be the quintessential blues-rock record of the day - better yet, of all time? Or perhaps he was thinking, "Hey, this Marshall combo sounds pretty good. I could just as well use it for the whole album." Forty years later, the Beano album is still dropping jaws at an alarming rate. Anyways - some interesting thoughts to ponder.

I think where you were going is that people who were playing vintage gear back then weren't looking at it in the same light as we do today. Quite simply - it wasn't "vintage" gear at the time - it was what was available. As well, the tone(s) from these rigs probably wasn't micro-analyzed or fawned over to the large extent that it is now. Back then, it either sounded good, or it didn't.

Now that I've had time to examine the context of original thread, I can clearly see the possibility of generational differences affecting the perception of vintage gear, as well as the light in which these opinions are assessed. Newer players tend to look at vintage gear in a "historical" kind of way - ex. Hendrix played Marshall amps, so they must be good. Wheras the experienced, older player tends to look at it more in the brand-science aspect - ex. Fender amps being noted for clean headroom.

The responses to this thread, to date, have been very interesting. As I thought might be the case, most of the replies show a gradual interest over time - as in no one was instantly mesmerized by a vintage sound (though I was hoping I'd hear one of those stories from one of our younger Fretters.) I also liked the fact that DVM (not to be confused with the DMV) mentioned The Beatles, who in my opinion, just might me the most under-appreciated guitar outfit in the history of recorded music - a close second being Thin Lizzy.

Anyways - there are a lot of answers still floating out there in space, and only fate knows where it'll go from here. Just thought I'd stop on by, and stoke those glowing embers a bit.

[Plank_Spanker]

I think where you were going is that people who were playing vintage gear back then weren't looking at it in the same light as we do today. Quite simply - it wasn't "vintage" gear at the time - it was what was available. As well, the tone(s) from these rigs probably wasn't micro-analyzed or fawned over to the large extent that it is now. Back then, it either sounded good, or it didn't.

That's exactly what I was so poorly trying to say.

[6STRINGS 9LIVES]

Clinically i guess that you could define any amp made before 1985 as vintage , 21 years old , but no body in their right mind is going to regard a 1984 peavey deuce as vintage other than the fact taht it is 22 years old.
Vintage refers to where a consensus is reached that a specific amp or era of amp for a given brand is considered to possess a highly regarded spec and tone , For example Fender Blackfaces from 64-67 , all of that line up quallifies, and likewise a 1969 Kustom 250 qualifies in all of its tuck and roll glory .
The fact that so many players aspire to achieve the tonal attitude of some previous guitar legend by using the same equipment that (pick a guitar hero) used , supports the idea that the hunt for tone can have many paths , all valid and worthwhile , but you also have to agree that A Les Paul Standard played through a Marshall Bluesbreaker is a Grail Tone , like Nelskie said , it changed the sound of music ..I personally dont think you have to invest thousands of dollars to enjoy and explore the world of vintage tone , as i've posted before 350-600 gets you a clean original 64-73 Fender Vibro Champ , it too has a classic vintage spec and tone .. so what it realy comes down to is if you want to get into vintage it aint that pricey to get a real taste , Modelers may come relatively close but not REAL close ..the real thing is out there and waiting but be forewarned its crazy hard to go back , and you dont know gas till you get vintage gas ... just my 2 cents...6S9L

[Spudman***]

and you dont know gas till you get vintage gas ... just my 2 cents...6S9L

Ha ha ha. I'm rolling. That is one of the funniest statements I've heard since Tammy2theBone. It probably wouldn't have had the same effect if it was spelled out GAS instead of gas. snicker

Nothing like really old gas now is there?

I'm with ya 6S9L. I was thinking of those old Crate 1x12 solid state amps in the crate like cabinets. Like your Peavey example I'll never think of those as vintage yet they are well over 20 years old.

One of the very first big amphs I played through was a Vox Beatle amp. It had the speaker in a metal frame and it could be tilted. The amph head sat on a non movable shelf on top of the frame. At the time (early 70's) it was just 'an amph.' No big deal. It's what we had so we used it. Today I'd give my G string to have that because now it's vintage.

So...today's sounds...tomorrows vintage amphs. Shop wisely. Maybe those Powerblocks and Valve Jr's are tomorrows most desirable toys.

[sunvalleylaw]

Nelskie,

I've been playing since '72 and I cut my teeth on a group of those "vintage" amps. There's one point about those vintage amps that often gets ignored - pretty much there was just a few amps out in those days. The choice was slim and you did what you could do with what you could get your hands on. That also applies to the "big boys" at the time.

The "tone" that we covet is more a result of a player playing the amp and getting what he wanted from it, or settling for what it is.

We're now in the "Golden Age" of gear. There are so many choices to be made that our "vintage boys" never faced. The possibilities are bewildering..............

Plank: I really like that approach. As a newbie, I hope to dial in my tastes with my Vox AD50VT (which I hope to pick up in December), then develop my tastes using the models, and ultimately get something I like with a vintage type of tone. Probably headed toward a cleaner tone that can be overdriven like a Fender or Peavey, and would like to try out the Epiphone Valve Jr. Right now, my taste in music, and in tone, is all over the map. I would like to see what I end up playing the most before I commit to one amp tone.

I also like what you say about learning to play an amp to get what you want out of it. I hope to get there one day.

A ski analogy: I am a coach and instructor, and have skied since the days when most good skiers picked one type of race ski and skied it in all conditions, learning to work the ski to make it do what was needed for the condition and terrain. Today, there is an overwhelming array of skis that just about turn for you. Unless a person has learned, however, how to really work a ski, these new skis are one trick ponies. A really good skier learns how to work a ski, typically by training on skis that are not quite as "shaped" in terms of sidecut, so that the skier can make that ski do a whole lot of things. Then you can go back to the new technology and really rip it up with the new possibilities built in. I am hoping that is what I will find with amps. Dial in my favorite tone, get a reasonable tube amp that will make it to supplement my modeling amp, and learn to work that thing. With the help of the Fret, of course.

[Plank_Spanker]

sunvalleylaw,

It funny to listen to guitar players talk at infinite lengths about "tonewoods", neck construction, pickups, hardware, etc as the prime factors of the tone equation, while skimming or skipping the topic of amps. The amp is just as important as the guitar.

And the only person it needs to please is the player...............

[Nelskie]

I would like to see what I end up playing the most before I commit to one amp tone . . .

If you're saying that in the sense of developing your "own" signature sound, and then involving it at some point down to the road to a piece of vintage equipment - - you path is clear, Young Skywalker. The Force is strong. On the other hand, the beauty of much of today's technology allows you to have an infinite number of tonal options at your beckon call (*i.e. amp / guitar modeling.) In other words, there's really no committment necessary. Like the "Summer of Love" all over again.

It funny to listen to guitar players talk at infinite lengths about "tonewoods", neck construction, pickups, hardware, etc as the prime factors of the tone equation, while skimming or skipping the topic of amps. The amp is just as important as the guitar . . .

Ah yes - - the seemingly under-appreciated guitar amp. For as long as there have been amplified guitar sounds, the amp has continually lived in the shadow of the mighty guitar. Perhaps it is due to the greater degree of physical interaction that the player has with the guitar vs. the amp - although effects pedals and channel footswitches do involve a bit of that same thing. As well, it is far more common that a player be associated with his instrument, rather than his amp - i.e. Chuck Berry with his ES-335, Jimmy Page with his Les Paul, and Jimi Hendrix with his Stratocaster.

In the electrified equation, the guitar is the tool by which the note is given life, and the amp which provides it with voice. When weighing each of those factors individually, it's likely that you'll hear two very different schools of thought as to which is more important. There are really no right or wrong answers. I tend to look at it this way: An average / good guitar can be made to sound better through great amp. And a great guitar though a great amp hearkens the voices of angels. But a good guitar though an average or sub-par amp will undoubtedly sound average, or perhaps even poor. And the mystical mojo of a really great guitar will be lost very quickly through an average or sub-par amplifier. So, if one looks at this with a logical train of thought, and great tone being the desired end-result, the amplifier appears to play the more significant part in the overall scheme of things. Anyway - it's probably a good idea for a new thread . . . should someone wish to move additional discussion in that direction.

The fact that players perceive value to, and are able to differentiate direct benefits from the use of vintage gear has motivated manufacturers in ways that few could imagine - essentially, what was once old is now new again. Some might look at it as a step backwards, but I see it as a re-birth, and ultimately, a fitting tribute to the musicians, bands, and companies that have brought music to where it is today. Considering all of the technology available to us, one cannot help but feel that it's a really exciting time to be a guitar player.