Seymour question

[grungemaster]

Recently I've been browsing the Seymour Duncan website for some pickups for an sg replica and I must say, I've been quite impressed with the SP90-1's on-site sound clips. However, I've learned to not believe everything I hear; so I'm just asking what you fretters think of them. Thanks!

[Katastrophe]

I'm a big fan of Duncan pickups. They'll sound great!

However, they are expensive. Look at GFS pickups here:

http://store.guitarfetish.com/

A lower cost alternative...

[Ch0jin]

Don't know about that specific model, but I'm fan of SD pickups as well. I use a SH-1 SH-4 set in one of my guitars and love them.

I've had not so great experience with one type of GFS single coil pickup, but the Fat PAF humbucker I got from them really rips in my Squier Strat. Loud, aggressive and edgy.

As Kat said, a great cheap(er) alternative and well worth considering unless budget is no issue.

[Beerman***]

I put an SH-11 in my Paul Reed Smith (bridge) and just ordered another for my new Hagstrom. It's hot but not too hot and sounds very nice and I definitely recommend them.

[deeaa*]

Yes always worth looking at cheaper copies.

IF someone can demonstrate in a blind test they can tell the difference between, say a GFS P-90 and a Seymour one, I'll start believing in differences other than dollar in most (similar) pickups from various manufacturers.

I think you can choose the style (single, P-90, staggered, etc. etc.) and you can choose the magnet type (alnico etc.) and you can choose the overall idea (active/passive, overwound/vintage) and the output level, but if you get a bunch of pickups where these variables are the same I honestly do not believe for a second there could be any sound difference.

[Ch0jin]

Yes always worth looking at cheaper copies.

IF someone can demonstrate in a blind test they can tell the difference between, say a GFS P-90 and a Seymour one, I'll start believing in differences other than dollar in most (similar) pickups from various manufacturers.

I think you can choose the style (single, P-90, staggered, etc. etc.) and you can choose the magnet type (alnico etc.) and you can choose the overall idea (active/passive, overwound/vintage) and the output level, but if you get a bunch of pickups where these variables are the same I honestly do not believe for a second there could be any sound difference.

If all the variables are the same, of course, but with pickups there's a bit more (scientifically provable) stuff going on including wire gauge, winding style and pattern to say the least. From an electronic engineering perspective the PU is probably the most complex system in a guitar. EMF is a complex thing.

I'm not saying I think your wrong, as I said, if everything IS the same then for sure they sound the same. Just pointing out that there's a fair bit going on inside a pickup so there's a fair bit of room for audible differences in -similar- pickups.

FWIW I have pickups by Fender, GFS, Dimarzio, SD, and a local Australian winder in my current guitars so I'll go from boutique to dirt cheap, as long as it sounds good I'm not bothered with the brand. In fact I'm really keen to try some EMG actives soon too. (probably a subliminal suggestion from your avatar)

[deeaa*]

Yes, I may seem too oversimplifying - indeed there are differences. If you really skimp on wire gauge etc. it may have a clear difference. But in case on generally well build pickups, say between DiMarzio and Seymour or even OEM pickups, the differences are very very minute so as to not IMO be worth changing from one to another really. Even if there are differences, I think more often than not in pickup changes and happiness with your pickup has more to do with the placebo effect than anything else.

I'm pretty sure if I had someone ask me to change some nice high-output Epiphone pickups to similar Seymours or whatever, and instead I'd just change the plastic top parts, the guy would not be able to tell the difference and would swear they sound way better now :-)

I used to have a no-name partscaster in the store I worked in, which I sometimes gave customers to try for comparison on how a partscaster can be, and people liked fine when they tried it, but suggested changing the (no-name bucker) pickup for better usually. I started telling people it has a PRS pickup in it _before_ they plugged it in, and whenever I did that people only commented how good the pickup sounded, never got any suggestions to change. I never even knew what brand it actually was. I did a lot of similar evil tests back then, like telling someone he's playing an SS amp when it was tube and lo behold it does sound 'kinda metallic' to him, and vice versa :-) and then I go 'oh wait it IS tube' and the customer is puzzled and 'lemme try that again, well yeah, it isn't that bad' LOL.

Meaning, if you're unhappy with the pickups you have, it may be worth a change if you're going for entirely different output level or something, but not to another quite similar pickup; it's cheaper and better just to adjust the EQ rather or pole heights or pickup height etc. Much more change can be had with those than changing a pickup. Can be a different story with some farestern super cheap copy pickups - those can indeed vary a lot how they sound, but I'm talking regular OK quality pickups.

If you put a Seymour like JB or Jazz or PAF or whatever that have the same output in the same guitar, they all sound just the same to me. Have someone play you back the sound samples of similar PU's from the Seymour site for instance, I'd be more than amazed if you could tell them apart in a blind test.

There's a LOT of bull and superstition about guitars going round, and most of it is actually based on factual things too and at least partially true, but, by and large, most this kind of things tend to get exaggerated to the point of ridiculous with all kinds of 'mojo' issues...that's why I try to suggest otherwise when I can, just to keep a kind of reality check around.

[Ch0jin]

I got no problem with that at all.

A small, vain, part of me hopes that the nature of my previous posts on mojo V physics type subjects (I've posted on wood types, construction, strings and all kinds of things I could apply Physics too here in the past) would indicate that I too am a soldier for quantifiable truth. I'm an engineer who works in marketing so I've been light side and dark side

Anyway, that's why I called you out on your pickup post. I felt it was accurate, but missing some data so I tried to fill in the blanks. I'm a pr*ck like that

If you want to see true insanity though, have a wade about in Audiophile world. People who claim to be able to hear the difference in conductor velocity and so forth. I think it's truly a curse to be that sensitive that you need $1000 interconnects and cryogenic drawn, solid unobtainium power cable just to listen to your classical music. I don't NEED to hear Yo Yo Ma blinking while he's busting out some Cello tunes.

Anyway, to get more aligned with the OT.

As I said initially, There's nothing wrong with SD pickups and I really like the ones I have. Value for money aside, what your getting when you buy SD is a great pickup and the knowledge that you are not buying something sub-standard. You should be able to pick something you like and be comfortable in the knowledge that you are getting the right sound for the pickup type you select. That is to say, if you buy a SD P90 style pickup you know you'll end up with industry standard P90 sounds out of it. Something that is in my opinion a gamble with cheaper versions.

Simply, If you buy a SD (or Dimarzio etc) duck, that duck is gunna quack. If you buy a lesser known duck it might quack, but it might bark too.

[deeaa*]

Very well put; that's the good side of brand stuff. You know what you're getting! Exactly. And agree otherwise as well.