Tube amphs, are some more "forgiving" than others?

[sunvalleylaw]

Historical perspective: I have owned (and still own) two tube amphs. My first, my Peavey Classic 30, is warm, articulate and nice. My second is a vintage Fender Concert 4x10. It is also somewhat warm and nice, but is more "Fendery" in the highs and is voiced with less mid range.

After I got my Concert, my C-30 lived at work for a while, and got less use for a bit. But since I joined my new jam project, the C-30 has been my workhorse for that, as the Concert would be overkill.

Finally getting to the point: Since I have been using my Peavey more, I was reminded of my initial impression of the two amphs. The sounds above, and also that the Fender was less "forgiving". The Peavey picks up stray string noises and such as well, but the Fender demands cleaner technique from me or else I am punished it seems.

Do you find this to be true with different tube amphs? If so, can someone explain why?

I love both for different reasons. Each has its own characteristics. The 4x10 is more complex sounding, the Peavey 1x12 more direct, and easier to dial in at lower volume, and has that warmth. Fun to be able to play with each!

[ZMAN]

I think a lot of it has to do with the tube/speaker/pickups. In other words there are a lot of variables. What you are describing is why a lot of guys go to pedals to shape their tone. I think your fender is a 4/10 combo and probably has GTs in it. Fenders have always been known for their extreme cleans. A Marshall on the other hand has decent clean tones but is a little more forgiving on the clean channel. Of course we all know about the Marshall OD channels.
So I would say that yes some amps are more forgiving. Fulltone has a pedal called a fat boost that thickens up the tone quite nicely on Fenders and single coils. I would say you can tweak your Fender with pedals etc. to get a "clean" yet forgiving tone.
If you check out Gregory Hilden's videos he uses a Fender Vibrolux reverb which is a 4/10 but he always uses some sort of OD. He get excellent clean tones from any of the guitars he reviews
Sorry I have no experience with Peavey but you seem to like that tone anyway.

[Spudman***]

If you check out Gregory Hilden's videos he uses a Fender Vibrolux reverb which is a 4/10 but he always uses some sort of OD. He get excellent clean tones from any of the guitars he reviews

Vibrolux is a 2x10 amph.


SVL - The only differences I've been aware of are that some amps translate the electrical signal from the guitar more efficiently than others making them 'feel' different from each other. I've never found an amph that forgives my crappy playing.

[pedalbuilder***]

Yeah, the overall touch sensitivity of different amp's is a fun thing to play around and explore with. It can really make the amp a larger part of your overall music-making experience which is one of the reason I always prefer an array of tube amps to a good modelling setup. Boss, and I'm sure others, have tried experimenting around with this - my GT-8 supposedly has an algorithm to change effects or effects levels depending on my picking attack . . . . I never tried it out though.

In my experience the least forgiving amps are the brighter, cleaner amps like my Traynor YCV-40, or Ampeg R-50H. This also seems to be 'amplified' if I'm playing at low levels, and most amps seem to become warmer and more 'forgiving' as I bring the output levels up.

Pedals will help and hurt also, as mentioned above. Some of them can help make the amp more forgiving and some will take your little mistakes and put them right out front fro everyone to hear. Not good!

[sumitomo]

Yea unless the fuzz or dist is on your(mine)mistakes will be amplified too!Sumi

[marnold***]

I've heard people call AC30s "quick response" or something of that sort which supposedly makes them less forgiving. Honestly, I haven't the foggiest. Great playing can make even the crappiest gear sound awesome. Likewise crappy playing can make even the most awesome gear sound crappy.

[Tig***]

From my experience and understanding, class A amphs can be quite unforgiving.

[sumitomo]

I don't know about that Tig,My little 5 watt Supro is class A and is very warm,does not really need a dirt pedal,I can get sloppy and it covers up,now my Super Reverb,if I'm not damping good all the crap comes through like a blow horn(I can hear it,some people can't)I love that little Supro,you can turn back the tone on the guitar and get that old '50s fat distortion from tube,that sound is awesome on certain styles.Sumi

[Eric***]

Hmm. I'm not sure, Sumi. Based on marnold and Tig's posts, I would think the always-on operation of class A amps would lead to a less forgiving amp, but I usually trust anecdotal evidence more than the theoretical. Is your experience with the Supro from playing it clean?

Where's tung when you really need him, anyway???

[ZMAN]

[QUOTE=Spudman;200427]Vibrolux is a 2x10 amph.


Yes I was thinking of the Super Reverb.

[markb]

Funny that the Vibrolux should come up in this thread. It's one of the most forgiving amps I've ever played. The power supply in a BF or SF Vibrolux is quite weak and gives the amp a lot of "sag". An AC30 by comparison will just chuck it straight out front. A Marshall even more so. Please don't ask me about modern high gain amps

[marnold***]

BTW, I'm just parroting what I've read. I can't say that I understand it much less have experienced it.

[sunvalleylaw]

I think in my case, it is a combination of the factors Pedalbuilder mentions (the Concert has cleaner cleans than the Peavey), and Sumi hit it with his SuperReverb vs. his little 5 watter. The Peavey by comparison warms up and saturates a bit sooner than the Concert, and I think that makes a difference too.

@Markb, When I turn on the vibrato on the Concert, a feature at least the vintage Vibrolux shared, it is more forgiving sounding. That is probably the onboard effect covering up some stuff.

Interestingly, I often prefer the Concert without a drive pedal on, and with just the amph and the guitar, with a little verb, or the vibrato turned on. That is very nice clean sound that can have some nice warmth, and is much more complex and less direct and in your face than the 1x12 Peavey.

Interesting. Like I said, I love them both for different purposes.

[Duffy]

It seems to me that a super clean amp will reveal your little and especially bigger mistakes very noticeably; whereas an overdriven high gain amp, with some reverb and possibly a little tremolo or rotary speaker sound, will immerse your little mistakes in it's, to some, own outstanding sound, wash of distortion, etc.

So, it's subjective I think, depending on who is the one doing the "forgiving".

If it is just you playing at home, you may find a particular amp or some overdrive and reverb to provide a richer and more rewarding and forgiving sound; or just that some amps simply seem to you to sound more forgiving.

On the other hand, if your playing is being listened to by others, some may not be so forgiving and actually be more critical and "unforgiving" when they watch you play thru a particular rig or
wall of high gain distortion and feedback; suggesting that you are hiding your mistakes behind the amp and that "anyone could sound good with that rig". At the same time I might reply to the critic that I think the dude sounds great.

So I guess it's subjective and you have to decide for yourself if one amp is actually more forgiving, or if it is just a figment of your imagination.

To my ear some amps inherently sound more rewarding to play thru than others; but then again on any other given day a different amp might sound inherently more rewarding. This, being different than "being more forgiving", is to me an inexplicable phenomenon - I don't know if it has to do with my state of mind or what: it's like how playing a clean strat might sound so great one day, but yet on another day an overdriven humbucking guitar sounds so awesome, and captures my soul. But this is a different concept.