Are epiphones as good as gibsons?

[ROCKER IN PROGRESS]

I have listened to many reviews and I have come to the conclusion that names don't matter. A quality guitar is a quality guitar. Take the epiphone firebird studio (2006) it sounds unbelievably good and I have found some for as cheap as 310$. So I don't think it's names I think it's the the person playing it. I'm sure your all familiar with the white stripes jack white (vocals,guitar) plays cheap plastic guitars still he sounds as good as slash people are all about Gibson and fender well squire and epiphones can be just as good if you can play. I have also found that even a crap guitar sounds good through a good amp.

[ROCKER IN PROGRESS]

Jack white "A guitar is a guitar"

[FrankenFretter***]

Having never owned a real Gibson, I can only tell you that I have a couple of Agile Les Paul-style guitars that I think compare favorably to even the best Epiphones out there. The Epiphone Les Paul that I have is a great playing and sounding guitar (I think the Gibson '57 Classic pickups have a lot to do with that), but I think the quality overall of my Agile AL-3000 is better. From what I've heard about Gibson's QC control, it seems like a real crapshoot as to whether you'll get a real magic guitar, or something that you feel was a real waste of several thousand dollars. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Gibsons are crap, or that I wouldn't love to own a real LP someday...I just don't really feel like I'm missing that much by not having one. You are probably more likely to get a better quality instrument (some would say 40% better) by buying a Gibson over an Epi, but when you look at the prices, most of us without the luxury of a sizable disposable income will take an Epi any day.

[hubberjub***]

I take a lot of flack because I'm not a huge Gibson fan (though I do own two). Gibson, as with a lot of larger companies, does suffer some QC issues. They also have a very large advertising campaign that the consumer picks up the tab for. On the Gibson vs. Epiphone front, I'm sure the Gibson uses a nicer grade wood and some components. Both Epiphone and Gibson (not the custom shop) make their guitars utilizing CNC machines so you'd think the end product would be fairly consistent. It all comes down to being able to play a lot of them before deciding which is right for you. To me, I can evaluate whether I like an electric guitar or not without plugging it in. If the neck feels good and I can feel significant amounts of resonance that's about all I need to know. Pickups and electronics can be replaced.

[ROCKER IN PROGRESS]

Ya like what I am planning in doing is I'm buying a squire strat and some fender stat pick ups that way I will see witch one really sounds better cause the pick ups aren't coming for a while.

[ROCKER IN PROGRESS]

I am also saving up for a epiphone firebird studio it is very inexpensive bit sounds just amazing.

[Commodore 64***]

You can find a lot of great instruments if you don't care what logo is on the headstock. You can also find great deals on used gear, especially if you don't mind scuffs, dings and scratches. The best guitar I own is Jackson Soloist Pro (Neck-through, made in Japan). Dude scraped stickers off of it with something blunt, but softer than the finish. There's a lot of scuffing on it. Also had hosed the trem and put an ugly-assed, half-assed, gold LFR on there. He also had it refretted. The fret work is fantastic, but there's some ugliness on the binding (the neck is bound ebony). Traded a Champ that I had $250 into, and dropped a Gotoh LFR in there and it plays like it did in 1990 (maybe even better) when it cost $1,800.

Here's a pic of it before I put in the new trem. Someday I'll get around to polishing the body, maybe. Plays like a dream. I really like the PUPs, they aren't hot at all...unless you crank up the (active) midboost. So I can go from Down by the River to Rainbow in the Dark with a turn of a knob.

[mapka]

I bought my Gibson Classic LP and loved it, but for some reason the finish did not love me (It gets cloudy where my arm rest on the body). It is easy enough to buff out but I did not want to destroy the finish with playing it everyday so I picked up a Hagstrom Swede to practice with and play. I love the Hagstrom and it gets used while the LP sits in its case in the closet.

[Commodore 64***]

Ya like what I am planning in doing is I'm buying a squire strat and some fender stat pick ups that way I will see witch one really sounds better cause the pick ups aren't coming for a while.

PUPs are the most overhyped, overblown and overrated mod you can make. I swap them out all the time (LOL), but really by the time you amplify and add effects, and play at stage volume, they just don't matter a whole helluva lot. And they are strictly personal taste, and HIGHLY subjective. Spend your time and energy on the playability (and reliability) of the guitar.

1. You'd do better to save your money on the PUPs and drop it into Tuning Machines, fret dressing file, a couple pots, a switch and a soldering iron. You'll end up with a rock solid, reliable instrument. I've replaced about a dozen trems/bridges now. I've come to the conclusion that this matters about as much as the PUPs. Personal preference, HIGHLY subjective. Dress the sharp edges of the frets (fret sprout) on the neck edges. Take the shaft of a screwdriver, and run it along the neck edge (between the frets...also called "rolling the fretboard"). The 35$ set of locking tuners from azguitarparts.com are pretty nice. Also, don't be afraid of unscrewing the neck and adding a shim (if it's a bolt-on). Try a business card, or credit card strip at the front of the neck pocket, if your action is too high. It's super easy, and the best way to understand what shimming does is to try it. It's easy and free.

2. If wanna take it to the next level drop $30 a fret leveling block and some 220 grit sandpaper and a crowning file ($45 on stew mac). You'll end up with playability at as low (or high) an action as you wish. Great tutorial on fret leveling from TDPRI

3. If you wanna get to the point where you can take a $100 SX or $100 partscaster, and make it play as well as any of the biggies, drop some coin on nut files, and nut blanks. Learn to cut a few nuts. Nut material doesn't matter. This is another case of cork-sniffing, overhyped, bullshit. For tone, the nut only makes a difference on open strings, and I challenge anyone to tell the difference between bone, micarta or plastic in a blind test. I use micarta because it's cheap and easy to work with. The most important part of the nut is how the strings lay in it, and how it affects them returning to pitch after a bend or trem dive. Great Tutorial on making nuts from TDPRI

Do this on a few cheap, or beater guitars. You'll quickly find that you can make some gems out of Craig's List or Yard Sale bargains. They won't be worth much as far as resale goes, but they'll play awesome. I sold a partscaster to a guy 2 weeks ago, he played it for 5 minutes and said he had to have it, that it was the best playing guitar he'd tried in a long time. Guy handed over my asking price, no haggling.

I sold Eric's old SX Tele too, same deal. Guy couldn't believe how well it felt and played. This was a bastardized guitar, with no pickguard, a Gibson P100 (P90 with a dummy coil, universally reviled on online reviews) and a cheap-*** bladed humbucker with ceramic magnets in the bridge. Once I demoed the dead-nuts, Keith Richards Satisfaction tone from the bridge and he played it for a few minutes, he reached into his pocket and gave me my asking price.

I don't polish the frets (playing it will do the same thing) to take out the crowning marks. I slip with the dressing file and leave marks on the neck. I don't polish the nuts, I lose the trem covers. I use rusty screws for the PG. I plug stripped pg holes with toothpicks and glue. None of this stuff matters...The point I'm trying to make is just grab a cheap guitar and get to work. I level fretboards while I watch the Browns and Indians lose. Just stick the neck on the carpet and start grinding. You don't need anything elaborate if you don't go OCD or anal about perfection.

[Eric***]

Wow, C64 -- quite the authority on this now (I'm not being sarcastic). I'll keep this thread bookmarked if I ever decide to get around to unraveling guitar repairs and modding. How's your band situation coming along?

[Commodore 64***]

Thanks, Eric. We have our first gig scheduled for September 10th at a local Eagles club. It'll be a 4-hour gig! Hope we have enough material.

I also signed up for this year's "Rock Band" at the local shop. We'll do 4 or 5 songs at the end of the summer. We rehearsed last week. We worked on Last Days of May (Blue Oyster Cult) and Down by the River (Neilage). I'm singing on both of them (God help everyone). Looking forward to that too.

[ROCKER IN PROGRESS]

Blue oyster cult man rock and roll baby

[Lev]

PUPs are the most overhyped, overblown and overrated mod you can make. I swap them out all the time (LOL), but really by the time you amplify and add effects, and play at stage volume, they just don't matter a whole helluva lot. And they are strictly personal taste, and HIGHLY subjective. Spend your time and energy on the playability (and reliability) of the guitar.

1. You'd do better to save your money on the PUPs and drop it into Tuning Machines, fret dressing file, a couple pots, a switch and a soldering iron. You'll end up with a rock solid, reliable instrument. I've replaced about a dozen trems/bridges now. I've come to the conclusion that this matters about as much as the PUPs. Personal preference, HIGHLY subjective. Dress the sharp edges of the frets (fret sprout) on the neck edges. Take the shaft of a screwdriver, and run it along the neck edge (between the frets...also called "rolling the fretboard"). The 35$ set of locking tuners from azguitarparts.com are pretty nice. Also, don't be afraid of unscrewing the neck and adding a shim (if it's a bolt-on). Try a business card, or credit card strip at the front of the neck pocket, if your action is too high. It's super easy, and the best way to understand what shimming does is to try it. It's easy and free.

2. If wanna take it to the next level drop $30 a fret leveling block and some 220 grit sandpaper and a crowning file ($45 on stew mac). You'll end up with playability at as low (or high) an action as you wish. Great tutorial on fret leveling from TDPRI

3. If you wanna get to the point where you can take a $100 SX or $100 partscaster, and make it play as well as any of the biggies, drop some coin on nut files, and nut blanks. Learn to cut a few nuts. Nut material doesn't matter. This is another case of cork-sniffing, overhyped, bullshit. For tone, the nut only makes a difference on open strings, and I challenge anyone to tell the difference between bone, micarta or plastic in a blind test. I use micarta because it's cheap and easy to work with. The most important part of the nut is how the strings lay in it, and how it affects them returning to pitch after a bend or trem dive. Great Tutorial on making nuts from TDPRI

Do this on a few cheap, or beater guitars. You'll quickly find that you can make some gems out of Craig's List or Yard Sale bargains. They won't be worth much as far as resale goes, but they'll play awesome. I sold a partscaster to a guy 2 weeks ago, he played it for 5 minutes and said he had to have it, that it was the best playing guitar he'd tried in a long time. Guy handed over my asking price, no haggling.

I sold Eric's old SX Tele too, same deal. Guy couldn't believe how well it felt and played. This was a bastardized guitar, with no pickguard, a Gibson P100 (P90 with a dummy coil, universally reviled on online reviews) and a cheap-*** bladed humbucker with ceramic magnets in the bridge. Once I demoed the dead-nuts, Keith Richards Satisfaction tone from the bridge and he played it for a few minutes, he reached into his pocket and gave me my asking price.

I don't polish the frets (playing it will do the same thing) to take out the crowning marks. I slip with the dressing file and leave marks on the neck. I don't polish the nuts, I lose the trem covers. I use rusty screws for the PG. I plug stripped pg holes with toothpicks and glue. None of this stuff matters...The point I'm trying to make is just grab a cheap guitar and get to work. I level fretboards while I watch the Browns and Indians lose. Just stick the neck on the carpet and start grinding. You don't need anything elaborate if you don't go OCD or anal about perfection.

That's some great information. Thanks for sharing your insights.

[deeaa*]

What CBM64 said and even more so. Exactly how it is.

Fwiw, epis are much the same quality as gibson with 2 big differences: aftermarket parts won't always fit properly because the dimensions aren't gibson standard and the woods are always inferior (laminated tops etc. although most can't even tell they are).

Personally I think woods make very little difference to a guitar's sound and all things considered, I'd rather get an epi and tweak it better, unless I wanted an investment, in which case I'd buy a used Gibson. I've owned a few of both brands too. Of course, if money is no issue I'd get a gibson, and in most cases get a better guitar out of the box too (except gibson can sell some crappy finishes)...but for playing, and with my own money on the line...probably no more gibsons, unless a cheap nice used sg happens my way some day when I have some extra dough lying around.

[ZMAN]

I have both the Gibson and Epiphone counterparts for the SG, LP and ES335. To answer the OP original question. NO they are not as good. They "looK" as nice but if I had my choice I would always pick up the Gibson. My Epiphones are no slouches. I have an Elitist Custom Made in Japan, and Korean Sheraton II, and a Korean Custom, and a G400.
I have two Gibson Les Pauls a Classic and a Standard. I have two Gibson SG, an HB and p90, and an ES335.
I think what is missing here is a qualifier. I think what he is asking is "Is it worth the money to buy a Gibson" . In that case i would say the Epiphones are a very good alternative. Cost wise they are pretty good bang for the buck.
CD64 is correct that they are a great patform for mods and you will not feel badly taking a file or screwdriver to an an Epi.
The only issue I have is that they NEED that to be a great guitar.
The Gibsons I have owned only needed a set up to be great. I did mod the Classic because I came across a set of Historic Pickups for low dollars and I did not like the Ceramic pickups in it. That was my choice. Most owners love them.
I do think that new Gibsons are overpriced and the only reason that the Epis are cheaper is because of labor rates in Asia.
This is about to change!
And if I had to choose only one guitar I would pick the SG Standard. So I do agree with Deeaa.
I also think that there are other manufacturers of the Gibson Copies who are doing as well if not better than Epiphone, and at a little bit less of a cost.
I think Gibson has realized they have two markets. They have the person who has more disposable income and can afford the dressed up Gibson, and they are slowly bringing in more budget Gibsons to appeal to the Epiphone buyers market. They are priced just a little more than an Epi, but less than a full blown Gibson.
A guitar in this category will come fairly plain but have all the "guts" of a Gibson. But be aware they are sometimes fairly roughly made and may need a little TLC.
I think that the Gibson Studio is probably the best bang for the buck in the Gibson /Epi line. They have the good looks and the hardware, they even come with a case.

[Brian Krashpad]

A decently built and set up cheapie can be just as giggable as a Gibson or USA Fender. Whether or not it's "just as good" is a whole nother question. Frequently less expensive gear has less sturdy pots/shafts/soldering, chintzier wiring, slipperier tuners, etc.

If it's a good guitar I play it, whether it says "Epiphone" or "Gibson," or "Squier" or "Fender," on the headstock. I have all 4 of those brands currently, as well as everything from Rickenbacker and Hamer USA on one hand, and Brownsville and an unbranded Frankentele on the other.

They all end up sounding like me anyhow.

People get too hung up on brands and prices. Get a good deal at whatever price point, and rock the feck out.

[jpfeifer]

I haven't played very many Epiphone's to compare against their Gibson counterparts, however, I've only seen 1 Epiphone that I absolutely hated due to quality issues. It was an Epi Les Paul where the bridge had been mounted in the wrong spot or something, causing the guitar to play out of tune with no way to correct the intonation far enough.

However, I have played several other Epi Les Pauls, 335s, and SG's that were great, with superb quality.

I have also seen some top-dollar Gibsons that should never have left the factory due to major manufacturing flaws (split tops, defective glue joints, messed up paint, etc)

So I don't think you can really answer the question with any certainty to say that one is better than the other. In my view, a good Gibson is still going to have a better tone and overall feel than the good Epi, however, the Epi will get you near the ballpark of the Gibson equivalent for a whole lot less money. The listener will probably never know the difference between the two, especially if you put higher quality pickups in the Epi, as an upgrade.

--Jim

[NWBasser]

To my untrained eyes and ears, the Agile AL3000s that I've played are better than their Gibson counterparts.

[deeaa*]

One of the biggest reasons I love this forum is that the members here are so sensible folk. On many a forum there's people who refuse to accept any opinions different than theirs or what's fed to them by some branch of hype industry.

This thread is a good example; everyone makes great and correct points without jumping to assassinate the others.

There is no simple answer to any vs. issue, in the guitar world even more so than anywhere else.
All too often people put huge faith in selecting just the right woods and pickups and whatnot, while ultimately they make a very very small difference, and sometimes the difference they do yield may not be what's desired. Sometimes even a plywood body may give just the best resonance for some kind of music, and sometimes a murky and a bit dull 2-dollar pickup is just the perfect one for superb stoner rock sound.

I'm not saying woods make no difference, they do obviously change the sound some, but it's not the woods, it's the combination of them, and swapping an alder body for a mahogany one for instance, well makes no difference to me...swapping a 2-piece maple/rosewood neck for an onepiece maple will change the sound and feel quite drastically however. But usually when I've played some guitar that has been made of some superb woods thru and thru, they often sound lackustre and deadish.

Basically, every guitar is an individual, and a good setup and frets and tuners, any decent pup and such make 90% of what it is.
I don't really care what brand it is, is it home-made or a top notch gibson when I play it, as long as it's set up well. But of course the more you pay, usually the less you have to improve it yourself later. Expensive guitars are usually very good or great, sure...but cheapos can be just as nice with some TLC.

I like active guitars, though, that's my preference...any strong active bucker-pup basically will do fine by me, or alternatively an onboard clean preamp maybe. There are other things like that in guitars that do make a difference. Scale is one obviously, as is the tilt vs. straight string angles...but, these things overlap and work in unison and make up an entirety we know as an electric guitar, and the said entity is still a bit of a mysterious thing of art - sometimes a guitar just has just the right woods and parts and setup and just sings way better than its sibling, and it's hard to tell from where does the mojo come from.

For instance, I think my sawed-down Squier w/EM85 is the most 'mojo-filled' guitar I ever had. It's not my best guitar, not the best woods or parts or even looks, but perhaps being so simple and light, it just screams so much more lively and easily than my other guitars, which is just great for leads. I think it's the combo of a 1-piece hard neck and a pretty light body without even paint or plastics much, helped by a bridge that just barely floats.