Trade Tang Gibsun Les Paul Supreme - order review

[NWBasser]

I used "cheap" in quotes. A cheap, as in cost, guitar is not the same as a cheaply made guitar. You can get a very nice guitar for your money buying an Agile and an Epi. You also get a warranty and some piece of mind over buying from some unknown Asian knockoff company. I understand you knew you were taking a risk ordering that guitar. I don't recommend someone do that. The story rarely ends as well as yours. Again though, to save money, those mentioned guitars will use cheaper parts - those parts being the nut and the electronics/pups.

Allparts necks are made in Japan, some in USA, and are licensed Fender replacement necks. The body, from GFS, is wood milled to exact vintage specs for either strats or teles and will accept all necks, parts, hardware perfectly. Most Asian knockoffs will not.

If you read into my post as knocking Epi and Agile, I think you missed my point.

I have to interject something here. Your course of action makes complete sense for someone wanting a Fender style guitar, but the options you presented aren't really applicable for the player desiring a Les Paul style guitar. Also, FWIW, the upper-tier Agiles do use quality electronics, tuners, and nut material.

If you have suggestions for affordable Les Paul style guitars, I'd like to hears those.

[stingx]

I have to interject something here. Your course of action makes complete sense for someone wanting a Fender style guitar, but the options you presented aren't really applicable for the player desiring a Les Paul style guitar. Also, FWIW, the upper-tier Agiles do use quality electronics, tuners, and nut material.

If you have suggestions for affordable Les Paul style guitars, I'd like to hears those.

A carved topped/set neck instrument such as a Les Paul is more expensive to produce than a bold on type of guitar. You can buy the higher priced models of Agile, for instance, and get the better components but the price goes up. Some Agiles LP style guitars are over $500. Epi's with better components and aesthetics are more than that. It's hard to get a custom build for cheap with these models. This still doesn't rule out a great used market. Also, my intent wasn't to knock any of these guitars.

You ultimately get exactly what you pay for.

[Eric***]

You ultimately get exactly what you pay for.

I'll go ahead and disagree with that outright. You think all profit margins are the same?

I mean, we're not going to agree on this, because we both have things we can't see past when it comes to this discussion. I suppose we should just give it a break. You can have the last word if you prefer; I'll just sit and watch.

[syo***]

You ultimately get exactly what you pay for.

I'll go ahead and disagree with that outright. You think all profit margins are the same?

I'm with Eric on this one. As for getting "exactly what you pay for", I could buy the same guitar that progrmr did for probably 40% less. Would this mean that we both got what we paid for?

I'm also in the financial sector and will repeat what I said. All goods are manufactured to a price point. That's a fact. What separates good guitars from mediocre from bad are the quality of the parts used and the attention to detail/setup - all reflected in the price point the manufacturer has set for maximum profit.

Regarding manufacturing to a price point, I'm not really sure what you mean in this instance, stingx. What progrmr bought here is not a typical Gibson-sold-in-GC kind of thing. These guitars are often being sold by factories to middlemen who sell them to westerners. Sometimes different sellers are selling the same guitars for very different prices. Therefore I would say that at the stage that progrmr received it, any price point from the manufacturer wasn't terribly relevant.

Regarding what I think separates good guitars from bad:

1). Quality/compatibility of components. We basically agree here.
2). Accomplished level of craftsmanship AND quality control. A setup has not much to do with whether your guitar is good or bad, just how playable it is (or not) when you've received it. A good guitar with a bad setup can still be a good guitar however a bad guitar, even with a good setup, well...sucks...!
3). Luck (or lack of it).

My 2 cents (or is it 4?)

[NWBasser]

A carved topped/set neck instrument such as a Les Paul is more expensive to produce than a bold on type of guitar. You can buy the higher priced models of Agile, for instance, and get the better components but the price goes up. Some Agiles LP style guitars are over $500. Epi's with better components and aesthetics are more than that. It's hard to get a custom build for cheap with these models. This still doesn't rule out a great used market. Also, my intent wasn't to knock any of these guitars.

You ultimately get exactly what you pay for.

I think I'm in near complete agreement here. I'd add that with such brands as Agile and Epiphone, they are well-known quantities and you can set your expectations for quality/price accordingly. With Trade Tang, they don't have a very documented quality record which makes it much more difficult to define your expectations.

I can't think of anyone doing a custom build for this style of guitar for cheap, probably for good reason.

The used market is indeed a great place to save some $$ on an LP.

[NWBasser]

You ultimately get exactly what you pay for.

I had to think about this a bit and generally agree that for more $$ you'll get better parts and workmanship.

However, if for example the workers at the Agile plant just got a raise/laid/good coffee/etc. you may get a guitar that really exceeds the price on the workmanship part. Conversely, you can buy a Gibson for top $$ and the builders got drunk the night before, wife/husband left them, yelled at by super, etc. and the guitar turns out to be a POS.

There is a fair bit of variability in the manufacturing processes and it's always a good idea to purchase from a dealer/mfr. who will support the products if a problem should arise. (Kurt at Rondo Music being a good example)

I'd further argue that your example of the custom tele for $500 may be a bit more value than what you pay for. I mean, if it's comparable for a $1K USA Fender, then you're getting quite the bargain!

[deeaa*]

I had to think about this a bit and generally agree that for more $$ you'll get better parts and workmanship.

However, if for example the workers at the Agile plant just got a raise/laid/good coffee/etc. you may get a guitar that really exceeds the price on the workmanship part. Conversely, you can buy a Gibson for top $$ and the builders got drunk the night before, wife/husband left them, yelled at by super, etc. and the guitar turns out to be a POS.

There is a fair bit of variability in the manufacturing processes and it's always a good idea to purchase from a dealer/mfr. who will support the products if a problem should arise.

I agree wholeheartedly with this - I've seen such lemons from respectable brands and so good el cheapos...it just happens.

My personal view is that generally you get what you pay for - now disregarding purely aesthetic values here - up to a certain point. I find that point to usually rest somewhere around the $500 marker, depending on how much features you want from a guitar. And that is assuming no costs for luthiering. If we assume you can't do any work yourself basically, the bar raises to maybe around $800 or so.

I know for a fact that I can score and rebuild a guitar for under $400 that will rival _any_ guitar out there in both playability and sound. I have two prime examples; my Charvette-based build that is - no shaite - better than pretty much any guitar I ever played in almost any respect, and the Yamaha shredder, a simple machine of some $200 value that still plays and screams better than most if not all $1500 shredders I ever tried.

Now, if you want a truly great guitar and assume you can't do any work on it yourself, I'd say you're looking at that 800 or so in the minimum. I can totally understand dropping 15 hundred for a dream guitar that looks and feels just as you want. Sure, there are some really good guitars way cheaper too, but they will _always_ have some weak points; need to upgrade the pickups, don't come with a case, or just need a good setup, or maybe have some crappy woods hidden below the veneer.

So you do get what you pay for...but in my personal view, if you're approaching or exceeding 4 digit sums for an electric guitar...well, I think it would be healthy to realize anything past that is either purely aesthetic or brand image or, in many cases - assurance for resale value. Nothing to do with the usage value or quality of the instrument past that. Hell, for 15 hundred I could have any kind of guitar built to tightest standards ever, with best possible woods, just as I want it. That's why some of the Gibson etc. prices just make me dizzy - they have nothing to do with anything but brand and prestige.