Poll: What affects tone the most?

[Eric***]

I might be wrong, but the Swede and Ultra Swede also have different scale lengths. 24.75" and 25.5" respectively.

I think it's the Super Swede that has 25.5" scale. IIRC, the Ultra Swede is an LP with a basswood body.

[Tig***]

I think it's the Super Swede that has 25.5" scale. IIRC, the Ultra Swede is an LP with a basswood body.

Yep, you are correct! The Swede and Ultra Swede are both 24.75".

[deeaa*]

I guess I would say that the woods _complement_ the sound of the instrument, they do not really change it all over that drastically. They have their share in the tone shaping, yes...but, you can build a strat out of Mahogany only and it can still sound like a strat. You can build a Les Paul out if maple only - hell even 100% acrylic, or even stone for that matter - and it can still sound like an LP should.

Still, if you're gonna build a totally spanky twangy Tele for instance, it's gotta have an all maple neck...in some extremes woods do matter much - but IMO more so in the neck than the body. The effect of woods is often exaggerated, I think it's more akin to whether you car has real leather seats or vinyl, than something really significant. Leather won't make the car go any faster but it can make the driver feel better and need to adjust the AC unit less :-) same with guitar woods - if the woods are just right for the sound intended, you need less EQ, and if they're just whatever, well, it might in some cases even make it hard to chase the particular sound.

But I'll say this: if I wanted an extreme all-round guitar, it would have to be a strat type thang with many different woods used.

[Perfect Stranger]

I couldn't disgree more with this poll. A player canNOT effect tone. The tone is a result of the device making the sound. Take two different players and have the play the exact same notes on any guitar, the same way, and the tone will be the same. The technique can be different, the style can different, lots of things can be different....but the tone will be the same because the same instrument make the same notes.

I could pick up Robert's guitar and have the same exact "tone" as him.....I can't play like him at all.....but the tone will be the same. My hands cannot make the sound brighter, or mellower, or crunchier, or overdriven.....but the pickups, pedals, and amps can. Saying that a player can personally change the tone is just ludicrous to me.

[Tig***]

My hands cannot make the sound brighter, or mellower, or crunchier, or overdriven.....but the pickups, pedals, and amps can. Saying that a player can personally change the tone is just ludicrous to me.

I wish I had a video camera. I get a wide variety of resulting tones with different pick attacks, and even more with the many finger style attacks I enjoy. There is even a limited range of overall gain (crunchier) changes just by the intensity that strings are attacked. Add adjusting the guitar's volume knob and the entire range of gain is in reach when playing through a decent amp.

Anyone who has not experienced the above hasn't tapped into the possibilities of their gear and the techniques available to us all. Think outside the pick.

[Eric***]

Take two different players and have the play the exact same notes on any guitar, the same way, and the tone will be the same.

I think the point is that this never happens. Even if it's just touch or phrasing or chord voicings, everyone has something different to offer with their playing. Most of the time that trumps what brand of overdrive pedal you're using.

I could pick up Robert's guitar and have the same exact "tone" as him.....I can't play like him at all.....but the tone will be the same. My hands cannot make the sound brighter, or mellower, or crunchier, or overdriven.....but the pickups, pedals, and amps can. Saying that a player can personally change the tone is just ludicrous to me.

The other thing, which I touched upon earlier, is that I think part of the tone-is-in-the-fingers argument is that people tend to adjust amps to suit their personal taste, so everything ends up sounding pretty similar. I know I do this.

Ultimately, I'm with deeaa in that you need to be within the ballpark of the type of music you want to play, which is mostly dependent on amp. After that, what makes you sound good or bad or able to be identified comes down to how you set up and play your guitar, at least part of which can be considered your hands/fingers.

[R_of_G]

I wish I had a video camera. I get a wide variety of resulting tones with different pick attacks, and even more with the many finger style attacks I enjoy. There is even a limited range of overall gain (crunchier) changes just by the intensity that strings are attacked. Add adjusting the guitar's volume knob and the entire range of gain is in reach when playing through a decent amp.

Anyone who has not experienced the above hasn't tapped into the possibilities of their gear and the techniques available to us all. Think outside the pick.

That's exactly my thinking behind the belief that tone is in the hands, and really, that's just the picking/strumming hand, there's another 50% of the equation on the other side. In my ever-present desire to learn to play funk better I realize how much of the sound comes from what I do with my left hand (aside from the obvious) whether I'm playing plugged in or not. I can certainly use effects to enhance that, but I'm plenty funky without my wah-wah too.

[FrankenFretter***]

Ah, finally some friendly controversy. These discussions wouldn't be much fun if we all agreed on the subject. Carry on!

[Spudman***]

I have a good example. A popular band/ festival and recording artist was playing our company Christmas party years ago. I and another employee got up to play a few songs. I used all the guitar player's gear and never touched a thing on his rig. After the set he came up to me with eyes wide and wanted to know what I changed to get the guitar to sound so much bigger and fuller than it normally does for him. You should have seen the look of shock on his face when I told him that I hadn't touched a thing.

[Tig***]

In all fairness, there is an additional component to so called "tone". (I think the word is sometimes over used or too easily applied across a wider spectrum than necessary)

The other part of "tone" falls into the gear category. From strings: materiel, gauge, ,coatings, design, etc.; scale length, action, bridge design and material, fretboard material, pickups: location, design, windings, magnet types, placement, etc.; guitar electronics: pots, wiring, capacitors, circuit design, etc.; body and neck woods, shapes, thickness, etc., etc...

Then we could list the same for amps, tubes, circuits, speakers (a huge part of tone alone), and on and on...

So yes, the gear certainly is a part of the equation, but so is the player.

[Perfect Stranger]

You just made my case FOR me. You get all of those tones BECAUSE of how the equipment picks up the vibrations and transmits them out thru the speaker. ANYONE doing the same things will have the same tone.....simple as that. If both people use the same attack, same volume knob settings, yada yada yada then they will have the same tone. It is NOT the person making the tone, it's the equipment making the tone based on what the person is doing to it.. The person is simply changing what is going INTO the equipment....not the tone.

*NOTE* Sorry, I was trying to reply to Tig's post #24

[Tig***]

You just made my case FOR me. You get all of those tones BECAUSE of how the equipment picks up the vibrations and transmits them out thru the speaker. ANYONE doing the same things will have the same tone.....simple as that. If both people use the same attack, same volume knob settings, yada yada yada then they will have the same tone. It is NOT the person making the tone, it's the equipment making the tone based on what the person is doing to it.. The person is simply changing what is going INTO the equipment....not the tone.

*NOTE* Sorry, I was trying to reply to Tig's post #24

Wow, people sure see only what they want to see. Amazing...

I give up.

[R_of_G]

You just made my case FOR me. You get all of those tones BECAUSE of how the equipment picks up the vibrations and transmits them out thru the speaker. ANYONE doing the same things will have the same tone.....simple as that. If both people use the same attack, same volume knob settings, yada yada yada then they will have the same tone. It is NOT the person making the tone, it's the equipment making the tone based on what the person is doing to it.. The person is simply changing what is going INTO the equipment....not the tone.

*NOTE* Sorry, I was trying to reply to Tig's post #24

And if every baseball player would swing exactly like Ted Williams they'd all be in the Hall of Fame.

I don't discount gear as part of the equation, otherwise I wouldn't own more than one guitar because what would be the point otherwise? Still, I think physical individuality plays a significant role as well.

[deeaa*]

You just made my case FOR me. You get all of those tones BECAUSE of how the equipment picks up the vibrations and transmits them out thru the speaker. ANYONE doing the same things will have the same tone.....simple as that. If both people use the same attack, same volume knob settings, yada yada yada then they will have the same tone. It is NOT the person making the tone, it's the equipment making the tone based on what the person is doing to it.. The person is simply changing what is going INTO the equipment....not the tone.

Of course you're right that anyone doing the _same_ things will have the same tone. The thing is, however, that usually no player, except perhaps starting ones, will play anywhere similarly, and thus have different outcomes in tone.

Is it changing the tone if you play with fingers as opposed to a metal coin? Or if you pluck the strings upwards hard as you play as opposed to strumming them?

It depends on what you mean by 'tone'. Going by the dictionary, it's not going to change that much by players.
But, if by the tone we mean the way the listener perceives the sound, well, that's mostly due to how it's played rather than equipment, of course.

There have been a few instances where I for one have been struck by how different someone sounds on same gear exactly...the first was back in late 80's when my band had a new guitarist who played thru this ancient Marshall halfstack and sounded insanely good, real Steve Vai virtuoso it seemed to us. Once I tried his rig and was totally flabbergasted...I didn't know how to effectively dampen the strings not used and also those used, so when I tried to play it, it was a mess of rattle and hum and a cacophony of sounds - the rig was VERY unforgiving indeed. And secondly, I realized the guy used next to no gain, he just really ripped at the strings and played 'em so hard it screamed...and me, I had been used to playing ultralights with a light pick and even lighter touch on a floyd-guitar. Well to sum it up - I sounded like a bad punk player on the exact same guitar and amp, and he made it sound like Steve Vai simply by playing it totally differently.

Now, arguably, the _tone_ per se was just the same...but to the listener it was a difference between ear-piercing cacophony and sweet, ringing notes.

[guitartango]

Tone in the fingers ? If you watch David Gilmour play then most of his tone comes from his fingers and the way his adjusts the volumme and tone knobs. Doesnt matter if he is using his black strat, his gibson or the gretsch.

[Jipes***]

The player is the principal source of tone the way you bend or play the notes and the way you attack the strings whether with a pick or the fingers makes a huge difference. To illustrate just listen to Freddy King playing a raw and energetic Blues with his thumb-pick and metal picks and on the other side of the guitar planet Wes Montgomery caressing softly the strings with his thumb

[Perfect Stranger]

Style, nuance, phrasing, yes...all attributable to the player. The true "tone"....no, how could it be?
You say tomato, I say to-mah-toe

[deeaa*]

Oh, I'm tempted to make a demo of sorts, and really see how much can I - if I can - change the tone just by changing the way I pick etc. Gotta try that some day...but not now, too tired. In the middle of rebuilding our kitchen.

[Eric***]

Oh, I'm tempted to make a demo of sorts, and really see how much can I - if I can - change the tone just by changing the way I pick etc. Gotta try that some day...but not now, too tired. In the middle of rebuilding our kitchen.

That would be pretty fun to see.