What's the point of 100 watt amps?

[NWBasser]

100 watt amps can be very cool indeed, like the Blackheart 100 watt head with six preamp tubes.

As far as great contributing bass players in rock bands, in a few "rock" bands of old the bass players were key players and irreplaceable, at least in terms of the band sounding the same. Three of these being Hendrix's Experience, Noel Redding; The Who's, John Entwhistle; Led Zepellin's, John Paul Jones; and the Stones', Bill Wyman. The Stones, in particular, just don't sound the same without Bill Wyman, in my opinion. Redding, Jones, and Entwhistle had unique styles and were integral to the overall sound of the bands. Of course, Paul McCartney's bass contribution can not be discounted, although he uses a guitar player to play bass in his current band on must songs - a beautiful Gibson SG bass.

Typically though, I would agree that in average gigging cover bands that a lot of different bass players could probably do just as excellent a job in supporting the band.

One thing I noticed in most modern real heavy metal bands, screamo, etc., the bass players and drummers are generally super excellent and super loud and the guitars and vocals sound buried behind their booming rhythm - at least in my observation listening to a lot of the music my son listens to and bands he has been in. A friend of mine has a 2000 watt per channel bass power amp and he uses it in clubs: super loud, including incredibly loud head busting drummer that is proud of breaking a snare head each show. Obviously a lot of people would not want to be in a band like this but you wouldn't believe how many super loyal fans they have. They are called "Farewell Rescue".

Interesting take on bass Duffy.

I wasn't aware that there was extremely bass heavy metal.

Funny thing, I really enjoy listening to the guitars when I'm playing, but not so much if they're burying me. IMO, a great mix is where everyone is heard clearly. With my 600-watt bass rig, I could bury my guitarist's combo amp, but I enjoy hearing him too.

[Eric***]

Funny thing, I really enjoy listening to the guitars when I'm playing, but not so much if they're burying me. IMO, a great mix is where everyone is heard clearly. With my 600-watt bass rig, I could bury my guitarist's combo amp, but I enjoy hearing him too.

I think I'm somewhere between you and deeaa. I do like things best when everybody can be heard and it's balanced, but I've found good, stable musical experiences to be fleeting. I think I'd probably take a backseat for a bit or play with a less-than-great musician if it meant that the whole band/package thing worked. Maybe with time I'll have more luck WRT bands, but it's been a tricky thing for me so far.

[Ch0jin]

I wasn't aware that there was extremely bass heavy metal.

Ever hear of a little indie band from the UK called Iron Maiden?

Listening to early Maiden made me want to learn bass because the bass was so prominent in the mix in most of their songs. Have a re-listen, the bass really drives their tunes.

[NWBasser]

Ever hear of a little indie band from the UK called Iron Maiden?

Listening to early Maiden made me want to learn bass because the bass was so prominent in the mix in most of their songs. Have a re-listen, the bass really drives their tunes.

Oh boy, talk about a tangent!

I thought we were discussing 100 watt amphs! ;-)


Maiden was one of my favorite bands back in the day. The early stuff was really good.

I better revisit their older material.

Thanks for reminding me of that Chojin!

[Duffy]

I think the frequency and the wavelength of a 40HZ bass note will remain the same no matter what. The wave will not move faster, that would change the frequency - the number of cycles the wave makes per second. The frequency of a bass E note is always going to be about fourty cycles per second and the wavelength is going to always be about twenty seven feet long. What changes when we add more energy to the speaker, watts, is that the amplitude of the waveform increases.

It might not seem to make sense, but frequency (cycles per second), wavelength, and the third component of a waveform - amplitude are involved. The amplitude is the variable that changes and makes the sound louder. Frequency and wavelength of a given note remain the same. In order to increase the amplitude there needs to be an increase of power at the speaker to make it louder.

For the sake of discussion this is interesting, but for all practical purposes it may or may not be of interest to a muscian, and definitely is not necessary to know in order to be among the best of muscians. It's kind of like noisy single coils - some muscians like them and some don't, and the reason why they are noisy doesn't really have anything to do with why a musician may have a personal preference. I'm sure there is more to the whole equation and what it means to how we hear sound, way more than I know.

For some people 100 watt amps intuitively sound great and others don't like them. You can turn them down or turn them up and satisfy just about anyone. And like Eric suggested, some muscians may not have any need for a 100 watt tube amp.

[deeaa*]

Yeah, LOL, Maiden would be nothing without the bass!

I have BTW also noticed that these days when I see a band on stage, the emphasis seems to be pretty heavily on the rhythm section quite often, and guitars are - especially in metal bands - often scooped-sounding, buried 'whassssshhhhh' in there that you only hear a constant steady roar of somewhere there.

My preference is absolutely in LOUD guitars, I want to hear the guitar loud, not so important about the rest :-) but that is an exaggeration, I love good bass too, but the bass I like is usually more like guitar sounding, think Maiden indeed, or Motörhead...

[deeaa*]

Maiden up to Somewhere in Time is all great, after that there's a song or two per album that are good. Except the bailey era...But since Dickinson came back the newest albums have been very good too - in my mind they will never top the classics but to be fair, they are bloody good albums and I totally enjoy them too, some superb songs there, only took me a while to listen to them a few times to start appreciating them...but they are worth getting to know, in some sense they can be even better than old stuff.

[marnold***]

Continuing the derailment, "Brave New World" (the first album with Dickinson back) is one of their classics, IMO.

But yeah, how 'bout them big amphs *cough* As a child of the 80s, I totally understand the "big stack(s) and a cloud of smoke" thing. It's just overkill for most of us.

[Ch0jin]

Yeah, like Marnold said, plenty of us grew up watching our guitar hero's rocking out in front of full/half stacks so that's what we naturally wanted to emulate. The music biz is massively about image, so it's unsurprising that "overkill" is the norm. Even now, I know I don't NEED another powerful amp (I have a 60w, am building a 45W) but I still WANT a 100W PTP Marshall head at some point.

[deeaa*]

Specifically, I never did understand the 100W Marshall JCM800 head too well actually...I get it well with clean amps like Twins and I also had a 120W all tube Ampeg at some point, and the JCM900 100W also behaved quite OK, but that 100W 800 series was just insanely loud when it properly opened, it really ripped at the ears even with some protection on, because it just has such a cutting midrange.

[sunvalleylaw]

I keep getting mental pictures of Marty (McFly) getting blown back about 20 feet after he dimes everything and hits the strings at Doc's house.

[Tig***]

[sunvalleylaw]

I was looking for vid, but couldn't find any. Great pic, right before it all cuts loose!

[kiteman]

I have no need for a 100 watt 4x12 half stack but when MF was blowing out Peavey Windsor half stacks at $399 (plus $60 for shipping) I thought I have to have a taste of it so I bought one. The tone wasn't that great but I was impressed with it. Standing in front of it while slightly cranked really gave me a rush. It was fun while it lasted because the fellas I was supposed to start playing with never worked out so it sat for a while. Then I sold it and got $400 from a puck rocker. I'm sure he's happy with it.

[Eric***]

Then I sold it and got $400 from a puck rocker.

Is that like someone who plays rock music at hockey games???

[kiteman]

Is that like someone who plays rock music at hockey games???

Dunno but that kid sported a mohawk dyed with colors and he picked up the 100 lb cab and carried it to his van. I'm struggling with the 50 lb head.

[Robert****]

I have an amph that runs 0.4 watts, I have 18 watt amps, 40 and 60 watt amps, and I also have a 100 watt Marshall. There is something very strikingly different between the 100 watt head and the other amphs.

Besides the volume difference, there is a huge difference in bottom end between a 100 watt amp and a, say 18 watt amp. It doesn't matter so much for cleaner sounds, but for more of a rock tone, it makes a big difference. That is one reason you seldom see big acts (with more of a rock tone) with 18 or 25 watt amps. It's just a very distinct difference in thump and low end punch from a 100 watt amp than a smaller amp. Even between a 50 and a 100 watt Marshall, this is clearly distinguishable.

As for me, I do play cleaner stuff most of the time, so I don't really NEED to use my 100 watt amp all the time. I have it because I got it for a steal used, and I do immensely enjoy playing it once in a while, for that young rocker in me!

[Eric***]

Besides the volume difference, there is a huge difference in bottom end between a 100 watt amp and a, say 18 watt amp. It doesn't matter so much for cleaner sounds, but for more of a rock tone, it makes a big difference. That is one reason you seldom see big acts (with more of a rock tone) with 18 or 25 watt amps. It's just a very distinct difference in thump and low end punch from a 100 watt amp than a smaller amp. Even between a 50 and a 100 watt Marshall, this is clearly distinguishable.

Interesting. I know deeaa touched on that earlier, but that seems to be the most concise answer yet. I was wondering how much of the sound difference might be due to the cabinet you use with it, but since you mentioned the 50/100 difference, I gather that it's an actual amp difference, eh? Thanks for the input.

[Robert****]

Interesting. I know deeaa touched on that earlier, but that seems to be the most concise answer yet. I was wondering how much of the sound difference might be due to the cabinet you use with it, but since you mentioned the 50/100 difference, I gather that it's an actual amp difference, eh? Thanks for the input.

I'm no electronics wizard, but I wonder if it may have to do with the output transformer being beefier? There is an interesting article here http://www.legendarytones.com/guitouttrans.html