Non-traditional materials for guitars?

[Eric***]

Some recent discussion has made me wonder what guitars would sound, play, and feel like if they weren't made of wood. In particular, in this post deeaa talks about how with a thick laquer coating, a guitar may as well be made of plastic.

So what if a guitar was made of plastic? How would it sound? Parker makes some of their fly guitars out of carbon fiber, don't they? Hagstrom uses some sort of plastic on their fretboards, I believe. So what if the entire guitar was made of synthetic materials? Would you notice? Would it be possible to build a guitar that sounds exactly like an all-mahogany counterpart without using any woods?

I'm guessing most guitar makers don't use synthetic materials because it's hard to convince people to buy non-wood guitars, but I'm just curious about the whole thing and whether it would be a viable solution if someone wanted to do it.

[R_of_G]

It'd sound like this...

[Commodore 64***]

or this!



Or this!

[oldguy]

I have a Switch Innovo 4 guitar that is made of "Vibracell" (plastic). It sounds quite good, actually.
It has EMG select humbuckers and a Wilkinson trem. I'd say it's a bit like a bright sounding LP type guitar.
The company went out of business.

[Eric***]

I have a Switch Innovo 4 guitar that is made of "Vibracell" (plastic). It sounds quite good, actually.
It has EMG select humbuckers and a Wilkinson trem. I'd say it's a bit like a bright sounding LP type guitar.

Interesting. Some quick googling says that the Vibracell is supposed to mimic mahogany. Do you think it does a convincing job at that?

The company went out of business.

That might be the sad fate of most companies that try to do this. I for one would be interested in trying a guitar made of something other than wood.

[R_of_G]

Or this!

I'm not sure how to score this one. He loses a LOT of points for using such a crappy beer, but gains almost as many for playing "Wildwood Flower."

[Bookkeeper's Son]

Baxter is one of the best guitarists out there, and also a very intelligent guy technology-wise. His acrylic (?) guitar really dispells the "tonewood" stuff that is so often argued on guitar forums, at least to me.

In what I think is a more critical area, acoustic guitars, the newer carbon fiber composite guitars have gotten very good reviews - no wood at all.

I think "traditional" is the key word in the discussion, as some people are loathe to embrace new ideas that conflict with old, firmly-held ones.

[Eric***]

In what I think is a more critical area, acoustic guitars, the newer carbon fiber composite guitars have gotten very good reviews - no wood at all.

I know Martin makes a particle-board (HPL: high-pressure laminate) guitar that's supposed to be decent, but I hadn't heard about carbon-fiber ones. Which ones are those, if you don't mind me asking?

[Bookkeeper's Son]

Eric:

http://www.caguitars.com/guitars.cfm

BTW, HPL and particle board aren't the same thing

[Eric***]

BTW, HPL and particle board aren't the same thing

What's the difference?

[Bookkeeper's Son]

From: http://www.pbmdf.com/High-Pressure-Laminates

HPL is produced by saturating multiple layers of kraft paper with phenolic resin. A layer of printed décor paper is placed on top of the kraft paper before pressing. The resulting sandwich is fused together under heat and pressure (more than 1,000 PSI). Because phenolic and melamine resins are thermoset plastics, the curing process transforms the resin into plastic by a cross linking process that converts the paper sheets into a single, rigid laminated sheet.

And particle board is just what its name implies - board made from wood particles, sawdust, etc..

[Eric***]

From: http://www.pbmdf.com/High-Pressure-Laminates

HPL is produced by saturating multiple layers of kraft paper with phenolic resin. A layer of printed décor paper is placed on top of the kraft paper before pressing. The resulting sandwich is fused together under heat and pressure (more than 1,000 PSI). Because phenolic and melamine resins are thermoset plastics, the curing process transforms the resin into plastic by a cross linking process that converts the paper sheets into a single, rigid laminated sheet.

And particle board is just what its name implies - board made from wood particles, sawdust, etc..

I see. It sounds like HPL is the same idea (compressed paper/wood) with glue and a butt-ton of pressure, done as a specific process. Thanks.

[Bookkeeper's Son]

Particle board, in general, isn't known for its structural strength, so it's not good for stair treads, etc., where bending forces are involved. Laminates like plywood are much stronger.

[Eric***]

Particle board, in general, isn't known for its structural strength, so it's not good for stair treads, etc., where bending forces are involved. Laminates like plywood are much stronger.

That makes sense. Some laminates (I'm thinking specifically about plywood here) have the grain perpendicular in the adjacent layers, don't they? Seems like that would add to the strength quite a bit as well.

[Bookkeeper's Son]

Zackly!

[Bookkeeper's Son]

I've noticed in the tonewood discussions that 335s, etc. are never mentioned - they're all made out of plywood!!!!!

Living in Oregon, I've become quite aware of deforestation, so I'm all in favor of alternatives to destroying our beautiful forests.

[Eric***]

Living in Oregon, I've become quite aware of deforestation, so I'm all in favor of alternatives to destroying our beautiful forests.

Yup. That, reduced weight, and the march of innovation and technology are the main reasons I'm interested in this sort of thing. I think someone (Jet City, maybe?) was working on vacuum-tube replacements at some point too -- ones that would sit in the tube sockets but weren't actual tubes. I think that's another interesting idea. Isn't there some sort of regulation on where tubes can be manufactured, or did I just dream that up?

[Zip]

Ever played a Rainsong? (<======clicky) Nice rich sound (& pricetag!) without harming any trees at all.

[markb]

You want alternative materials? Try this 80s British wacko project. LED tone controls and an external power supply? Check! Moulded frets? Check!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bond_Electraglide