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Thread: Help with coil splitting on a SG!!

  1. #1
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    Question Help with coil splitting on a SG!!

    I'm kinda new to all this and need a little help with all this. right now i have a g-400 i bought in feb i have seymour duncan 59 for the neck and a custom 5 for the bridge. Im wanting to split the coil on both with push pull pots. I've been looking for cts pots but i've only found a few places that have the push pull pot i'm guess ive been looking in the wrong places. that being said so far for the rest of the set up im not sure which is better for the push pull the tone or volume. I was going to use linear one the vol and audio on tone alone with a pair of orange drop .01uf 600v caps. I've never done this before so any help would be great. I'm guessing the sg takes the short pots but im going to have to measure the stock one to be sure. thanks in advance for any help.

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    First of all, check your pickups. Do they have at least 4 wires coming out of each pickup? You need to have at least 4 wires from each pickup to split the pickups. If you have both pickups with at least 4 wires you can split both pickups. If only one pickup has 4 wires you can split only one pickup. The Seymour Duncan website has wiring diagrams on it for splitting pickups that may or may not be easy for you to follow.

    I have some guitars with split pickups and some of them are good at doing it, while some are not great sounding, to me, when split. None of my guitars, when split, sound like a stratocaster or telecaster. So, for me, splitting the coils is something I haven't done when putting high quality pickups in guitars. I just put them in and wire them as full humbucking pickups and solder the two extra wires together from each pickup and tape them up. Then I wire the new pickups in just like the ones I take out, following the existing wiring scheme that the guitar has, unless the way that the guitar is wired up stock is all messed up - which is usually not the case.

    If you want to split them, follow the directions on the SD site, and if you find this too difficult, get everything put together and bring it to a good guitar tech and have him solder up the connections. If you try to wire it up yourself, it might be wise to leave all of the wires longer than you need them by a fair margin, in case you have to take it to someone to have it wired up. The correct way of wiring it might require that the wires be longer than the way you cut them when you tried to wire it. You don't want to have to have additional length soldered on and all of that type of thing will cost you more in the end to get done.

    If the wiring job looks over your head after you look at all the wiring diagrams and have selected the correct parts, you might find that it is well worth the cost to take it to a tech that is knowledgeable of wiring up all sorts of complicated wiring schemes. These guys are fast and know what they are doing. I don't imagine it would cost you much to have it done. If you bought the pickups from a place that has a tech, or the guitar, they might cut you a break on doing the job.

    I think that those pickups would sound very nice in an SG. I have that set in a guitar and it is one of my favorite guitars. It actually has split coils too, but I almost always play it as a full humbucking guitar. Maybe if I was really playing loud I would notice the coil split more and it would be more useful.

    The Gibson web page might also have a good wiring diagram for wiring up the split pickups with two volume and two tone knobs; in fact I think I saw the diagram on the Gibson site but was looking at a different scheme.

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    Both pickups are 4 wire connectors do you feel it offers some unique sounds on the ones you like that are split? thanks for your help!

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    I have my guitar with that specific set of Seymour Duncan pickups in it, split coil, right here by me. I'll plug it into my very clean Fender '65 Deluxe Reverb Reissue and compare how I think it sounds on all the pickup settings with the pickups full humbucking and split. I'll also add some overdrive and delay and compare them that way split/full HB.

    I'll get back to you on my personal observations. These are uncovered Seymour Duncan pickups that came from the factory installed and split from the Fender factory; twin full sized humbucking with split coil option.

    I think these two Seymour Duncan pickups are great sounding full humbuckers. They are two of my favorite Seymour Duncan pickups that I have played. I have a few different guitars with Seymour Duncans in them. I like the '59 in the neck better than the Jazz, and some people use a Pearly Gates in the neck and bridge, or even '59s in both the neck and bridge.

    That sounds like it will be a really nice SG.

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    I just played the guitar and compared how I thought the full humbucking sound compared to the split coil sound thru the Fender DRRI. The full humbucking sounded super good at all pickup switch settings and it sounded really great overdriven with a bad monkey pedal and a carbon copy delay pedal into the same amp. When I pulled up on the tone knob, splitting the coils, the apparent volume immediately dropped and the the sound seemed thinner; with only half the pickup working I would expect this. When I compared the sound by turning down the volume to a level on the full humbucking setting that was equal to the volume of the split coil sound, I noticed that, again, the full humbucking still sounded more full and powerful. The split coil sound seemed still thin but less driven sounding, to the point where, to my ear, the split coil sound was more like that of an amplified acoustic guitar sound and chords sounded more like ones played on an acoustic, especially on the bridge pickup which was brighter than the neck pickup. The middle and neck switch positions seemed to exhibit the same differences to me, with the neck split coil sounding more full than the bridge split coil sound, but still thin.

    Played clean, as well as overdriven, the full humbucking sound was way more interesting and satisfying to my ear; full of great overtones and powerful density of the sound. I like the full humbucker sound and think it sounds nicer to me for rock and blues.

    I really like the sound of my strats and telecasters and they don't sound anything like the split coil sound of the '59 and Custom 5. My strats and teles definitely can roar and rip the place up, and they sound good thru all my amps. I haven't developed a taste for noiseless single coils that much. A screaming single coil thru a decent amp sounds great to me.

    I also really like my Les Pauls and other full humbucking guitars, and they definitely rock the house. I like the noiseless aspect and the powerfulness of them, plus the fullness of the sound and overtones. There is no sound to me like a roaring real nice humbucker thru a nice clean amp, an overdriven one, or an ultra high gain one with lots of controlled feedback shaking the walls.

    I am more likely to use a real nice telecaster with Seymour Duncan alnico II pro pickups to get an awesome single coil sound, than I am to split the coil on any guitar that I have that has coil splitting; and to my ear, I will get a way better sound with the tele than I will with the split coil.

    So, for me, I would rather have a single coil guitar and a humbucking guitar than try to get the sound of both out of a split coil guitar.

    From my point of view, which is limited to me alone, I think you are still definitely doing great with the SG and the SD '59 and Custom 5; no matter how you wire them up. You will always have what I think are "top notch" full humbuckers in that SG, and it should sound super fantastic thru a decent amp.

    What amp do you have, by the way? A lot of times you can really improve your rig by upgrading your amp, because there is no substitute for a decent amp.

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    right now i have a roland micro cube but most of the time i've been playing with headphones through a line 6 pod 2.0 i have. I've been wanting to get a fender super champ xd just my present living suitation it's better with the pod or the small amp. i havent played since i was 14-15 years old until i got this sg so being 15 years later i forgot most what i learned but it's been fun playing again. thanks for your info on the split coils. I just figured i was replacing everything and had a few friends tell me i should look into it for more tone options.

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    The Fender Super Champ XD will give you a lot more tonal options than split coils will, in my opinion.

    I have a Super Champ XD and think it is a great amp. They have a new version out now called a Fender Super Champ X2. It has a USB connector to access the Fender Fuse site that the Fender Mustang amps use. The Super Champ XD is way nicer than the Mustang in my opinion, being in significant part a tube amp with a digital section in it. The SCXD models 16 amps, about 8 classic Fender amps, and around 8 other classic amps from Marshall up to ultra high gain amps. It is definitely a nice amp.

    Not as nice as the Fender in many ways, I just bought a new old stock (NOS) Vox VT30 "Chromie". I really like this VT30 with the ten inch speaker and a power attenuator knob on the back that allows you to turn down the volume to around one watt or less. The object is to turn up the gain and volume and adjust the master volume on top of the amp so you get some awesome overdrive sounds - then you turn down the power attenuator knob on the back of the amp to a really low bedroom level that won't disturb anyone, and you still get that super saturated tube overdrive sound. It is really nice. You don't get that classic Fender clean that the SCXD has, but you get lots of nice effects and amp models that combine a lot of great tones into some awesome sounds, quite different from the Fender Super Champ XD.

    I got my NOS, brand new, Vox VT30 "Chromie", after the chrome BBQ type speaker grill on the front, for 165 dollars, brand new, out the door. I've had it for about a month and a half and use it every day with all of my guitars and it works great. They are blowing out the VT30 amps for a fraction of the cost because they have a new series out now called the "plus" series, such as in the VT40+. I like the VT30 personally. It has a ten inch speaker and a dedicated reverb knob. The new series doesn't have a dedicated reverb knob; the reverb is just another effect like all the other effects. Plus some of the new "plus" series have a "snare drum" rattling sound that I wouldn't want to wind up with, not to mention that you will pay more for the "plus" series. Getting back to the VTxx series - the VT50 in specific is a "very" bassy, untamable amp. I tried one and there was nothing I could do to tame the bassiness, including turning the bass down all the way. I found it to be not acceptable. Some say that you can put a small pillow inside the amp near the speaker and it will take care of the problem, I'm not sure. The VT50 has a twelve inch speaker but the extreme bassiness made the amp useless to me.
    If you look around you may well be able to find a VT30 for a great price, like 185, NOS. The older AD30VT amps have been around a lot longer and the VT30 amps and those in the VT series have addressed, supposedly, some of the concerns owners had with the older versions. For instance, with the VT30 amp the 12ax7 full sized preamp tube (normally a preamp tube in full tube amps or the SCXD) is in the VT30's "power amp section", not the preamp section. This is regarded as a major improvement in hybrid amp technology.

    By the way, even though the VT30 can whisper beautifully, it can also roar quite loudly when cranked. I tried a VT15 but found the eight inch speaker to be a little small and it doesn't have the power or sound of the VT30. Since you already have an amp with a small speaker I would advise getting one with at least a ten inch speaker - such as the SCXD or the VT30. There are a lot of other amps, but I guarantee that either of these two amps will do your SG very well.

    I think you are going to really like those pickups. They should be more powerful and free from any muddiness. You will be getting some pickups capable of some beautiful tone.

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    If you do end up splitting the pup, much better way to do it is wire it to be twin singles instead of just half a bucker. That gives a really full but clearly singlecoil type sound, like strat 2nd position. I would not even bother a switch just wire it so permanently

    Sent from my HTC HD2 using Tapatalk
    Dee

    "When life's a biatch, be a horny dog"

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    Half a dozen custom built/bastardized guitars all with EMG's, mostly 85's, Ibanez Artwood acoustic & Yamaha SGR bass, Epiphone Prophecy SG, Vox Wah, Pitchblack tuner plus assorted pedals, rack gear etc. for home studio use.

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    if i wire it up with twin singles will it still have the full humbucker with the push/pull pot down??

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    I suppose it could be wired that way. I had it permanently wired myself that way on my Les Paul...but I guess anything can be done, although I'm not entirely sure if normal push-pull switches allow for that kind of swapping of contacts. A tech will know better.

    On a coil tap...how was it again...you basically only need to switch the other coil out of the circuit, select if the hot is connected to 1st coil or direct to 2nd?...uh...anyway, that a simple switch can do, but with split singles, hm...you'd have to switch the 1st coil return to ground AND simultaneously switch the other coil's send to hot? (I'm just thinking how it must be done in my head, might get it wrong too but you get the idea anyway)...so yeah, if I understand correctly all that is needed is dual switch that can do two separate switches in one movement.

    I do think those push-pulls can do that, they tend to have so many contact studs on 'em I'd be a bit surprised actually if they couldn't do it.
    I bet you could also add another switch to have both options available.

    I've only done such soldering mods a few times without clear instructions, trial-and error and thinking hard method, so ask a tech...sorry I can't give you a definite answer, but I'd guess it's no-brainer for a good tech...but I do very much prefer the dual single mode to simple tap.
    Dee

    "When life's a biatch, be a horny dog"

    Amps: Marshall JVM 410H w/ Plexi Cap mod, Choke Mod & Negative Feedback Removal mod, 4x12", Behringer GMX110, Amplitube 3/StealthPedal

    Half a dozen custom built/bastardized guitars all with EMG's, mostly 85's, Ibanez Artwood acoustic & Yamaha SGR bass, Epiphone Prophecy SG, Vox Wah, Pitchblack tuner plus assorted pedals, rack gear etc. for home studio use.

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    If you coil split it and have the pickup selector switch in the middle position will you get dual singles?

    I have an Ibanez that does not have push pull knobs but has a three way pickup selector switch. When you have the pickup selector switch in the middle position it does something different than just turning on both full humbuckers. It does something like using a single coil from each of the pickups, but I'm not sure if that is a dual single scheme or just another type of humbucking scheme for a slightly different tone. It isn't a typical three way pickup switch though.

    A guitar tech that is really knowledgeable will be able to do a lot of different wiring schemes and will be able to experiment with different caps and resistors if you are looking for a certain sound or range of sounds.

    I wouldn't recommend going on a wild goose chase by yourself. You could wind up spending a lot more money in the end and even messing something up. Those pickups you have are not the inexpensive types. They are really great pickups though and you should be able to wire them up or have them wired up, with great results.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duffy View Post
    If you coil split it and have the pickup selector switch in the middle position will you get dual singles?

    I have an Ibanez that does not have push pull knobs but has a three way pickup selector switch. When you have the pickup selector switch in the middle position it does something different than just turning on both full humbuckers. It does something like using a single coil from each of the pickups, but I'm not sure if that is a dual single scheme or just another type of humbucking scheme for a slightly different tone. It isn't a typical three way pickup switch though.

    A guitar tech that is really knowledgeable will be able to do a lot of different wiring schemes and will be able to experiment with different caps and resistors if you are looking for a certain sound or range of sounds.

    I wouldn't recommend going on a wild goose chase by yourself. You could wind up spending a lot more money in the end and even messing something up. Those pickups you have are not the inexpensive types. They are really great pickups though and you should be able to wire them up or have them wired up, with great results.
    If you coil split both the neck and bridge bucker, you do get dual singles, sure. I can do that with my SG.
    That Ibanez could be either wired so that mid pos puts the buckers out of phase, which should give a kinda hollow, ringing or quaking sound, or I guess it could well be wired somehow that it uses only one coil from each bucker...I dunno. You can check it out, though, just tap the poles with a screwdriver when hooked to an amp, and see which are used and which not.
    Dee

    "When life's a biatch, be a horny dog"

    Amps: Marshall JVM 410H w/ Plexi Cap mod, Choke Mod & Negative Feedback Removal mod, 4x12", Behringer GMX110, Amplitube 3/StealthPedal

    Half a dozen custom built/bastardized guitars all with EMG's, mostly 85's, Ibanez Artwood acoustic & Yamaha SGR bass, Epiphone Prophecy SG, Vox Wah, Pitchblack tuner plus assorted pedals, rack gear etc. for home studio use.

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    You know, Dee, I think I remember that it actually is wired so the buckers are out of phase when in the middle switch position. Can you think of any ways I could check this to see if this is an out of phase sound? Just listen and see if it sounds more hollow? I think it sound slightly weaker in that position, but I haven't turned it up and listened for slight differences of timbre, etc.

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    It should just sound kinda weird, instead of changing steadily brighter or darker when going thru the positions the bass end should change significantly in the mid pos if they are out of phase...no idea otherwise how to check it.
    Dee

    "When life's a biatch, be a horny dog"

    Amps: Marshall JVM 410H w/ Plexi Cap mod, Choke Mod & Negative Feedback Removal mod, 4x12", Behringer GMX110, Amplitube 3/StealthPedal

    Half a dozen custom built/bastardized guitars all with EMG's, mostly 85's, Ibanez Artwood acoustic & Yamaha SGR bass, Epiphone Prophecy SG, Vox Wah, Pitchblack tuner plus assorted pedals, rack gear etc. for home studio use.

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    I have a 97 SG1...one pickup with coil split switch (24 frets). I replaced the fried original pickup with a Duncan Dimebucker I just happened to have laying around. I do not play metal...I am an old guy. I love this guitar with the Dimebucker. I use the single coil mode for clean playing and it sounds great. For distortion I turn the volume down about halfway for rhythm and just turn it full up for lead boost. Super versatile for a single pickup guitar.

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    That sounds like a neat SG. I always wanted to try one of those dimebuckers but thought it would be too metal sounding and harsh. A guy had a real nice HSS strat in for repair at a shop near me with a dimebucker in the bridge and rails in the middle and neck. Looked like an awesome guitar.

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    If a pickup is said to be metal sounding or harsh, that's in my experience almost solely because it has lots of output, and/or the more flat the frequency response it has. The more 'soft' or vintage sounding a pickup is said to be, generally the less powerful they are and the more uneven the frequency range output is. It may give sweet spot blues sounds etc. but in overall use the lack of clarity in full driven chords for instance always drives me mad with 'vintage' style pickups.

    To me having loads of output only means I need no solo boost etc. and can get more 'vintage' tone just lowering the volume, or using low input gain on the amp. But I prefer to have the reserve there anyway. I like my pickups as powerful and colorless/flat frequency response as possible, so a dimebucker might work well for me. I have several single-pickup axes, and many times I play clean parts simply by lowering the volume like 1/4th and it sounds just totally different.

    Every passive pickup I've tried, the more output it has had, the better I've liked it, but soon the problems like feedback-proneness and such appear, and thus I use actives. Then I can have the gain at 1/4th instead of halfway up or more as with most passives, and retain the clarity while having the drive.
    Dee

    "When life's a biatch, be a horny dog"

    Amps: Marshall JVM 410H w/ Plexi Cap mod, Choke Mod & Negative Feedback Removal mod, 4x12", Behringer GMX110, Amplitube 3/StealthPedal

    Half a dozen custom built/bastardized guitars all with EMG's, mostly 85's, Ibanez Artwood acoustic & Yamaha SGR bass, Epiphone Prophecy SG, Vox Wah, Pitchblack tuner plus assorted pedals, rack gear etc. for home studio use.

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    I would never had thought I would have liked a Dimebucker and never would have tried one. What happened is I traded a Robot SG Special for a Les Paul Standard Faded. The kid who had the LP was a metal player, so he put the Dimebucker in it. I also got the original LP pickup....and immediately re-installed that....so I had a Dimebucker laying around. I originally put it in a Lotus Strat project, but then when my SG1 pickup died (still not sure how that happened)...I said "what the heck" and gave it a try. I was very surprised but I liked it a lot! I was especially surprised that I liked it in single coil mode too.

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