No respect

[Tig***]

Yeah, I was quite pissed. Not worth an assault charge though.

He should know to never bring a wimpy lightweight guitar to a bass fight!

[NWBasser]

Here is an interesting quote that I stole from a bass forum. This is just a short bit of a much larger treatise.

Originally Posted by Yep
"Bona-fide professional studio bass players are among the most sought-after and highly-compensated musicians in the industry. Some play with a pick, some play slap-style, some play with a piece of foam under the strings, some play upright, some are virtuouso arrangement and sight-reading experts, some just play the root notes of the chords, some play extraordinarily slick and sophisticated accompaniments, but one thing that they all have in common is dynamics control, down pat.

They deliver “hit bass.” And hit bass is unlike any other instrumental role, because it does not necessarily have anything to do with melodic quality or musical virtuosity in a conventional pop-music sense. It is perhaps most like the criteria used for hiring in the classical world, where tonality, intonation, and sensitivity to the conductor's time and vision are paramount.

“Hit bass” is a matter of being LOCKED IN. It means controlling note dynamics and duration so that the bass “locks” with the drums, and fuses the rest of the band together into a cohesive whole. Session bassists can make or break a song with microscopic performance gestures and nuance. They sound like professional “hit bass” as soon as they plug into the console input, and if you ever get to be in the room with one, it's an eye-opener just how polished, professional, and “finished” it sounds right from the first note.

If you're ever in that situation, and you're anything like me, then your first reaction might be to compliment the instrument and ask about it, maybe ask if you can try it out. And then you might go to play the same bassline on it and realize instantly that this person has a skill set that is far different from the conventional definition of “chops.” And you might completely change your practice regimen and attitude towards bass forever."

Certainly is food for thought and a perspective that I hadn't given a whole lot of thought to.

[Eric***]

Here is an interesting quote that I stole from a bass forum. This is just a short bit of a much larger treatise.

I don't get it. Not saying it doesn't exist, but it sounds like a lot of fanfare for something that he has yet to define in any normal terms. The bass players have a good sense of rhythm? Good muting technique? Copious amount of 'mojo' (note: on that term)?

[markb]

"Hit bass"? The names Rutger Gunnarsson and James Jamerson spring most immediately to mind here. Not that any of the general public would recognise either of these names even though they've danced to them a million times.

[NWBasser]

I don't get it. Not saying it doesn't exist, but it sounds like a lot of fanfare for something that he has yet to define in any normal terms. The bass players have a good sense of rhythm? Good muting technique? Copious amount of 'mojo' (note: on that term)?

I'm not totally clear on it myself, but I think what the author is getting at is the attention paid to each note by the pro studio bassists is what sets them apart. I don't think mojo has anything to do with it.

I may well come up short on an explanation, but I guess the point is that the particular way each note is played on the bass may have an influence on the music. Much same way that different chord forms will change the feel of a tune with guitar. So, if you change note duration, attack, plucking position, etc. makes for a suit of small details with a large change is how the music is perceived.

I'm not sure just how close I am to this person's interpretation of things, but I've been paying a lot of attention to how I approach and play notes lately and am finding interesting things going on.

I think it's a given that a bass player should have good timing. The really exceptional ones can intentionally play around either a bit behind or ahead of the beat and make it sound good. I think that would only apply to jazz-fusion though...

[Duffy]

I think this discussion would be missing something if John Paul Jones was not mentioned.

John Paul Jones was a master muscian formally trained and a multi-instrumentalist; probably most well known for playing bass, all sorts of keyboards, and a huge variety of styles of mandolins.

He received a lot of respect from Led Zepellin fans and was an impressive showman and very groovy player on stage. He was also, and still is, a major producer and muscian, playing with many bands and having his own band at present.

I listened to the first Led Zep cd a couple nights ago at night when everything was quiet and my mind was clear and free of preoccupation. Unaware of this thread, JPJ's bass and keyboard contributions on the cd struck me as very essential in the up front sound of the interwoven music of the players. He was totally grooving with the drummer but also was heard to move to stand out beautifully in so many songs, while Page laid back; as well as hitting it along with Page of course.

I also was turned on by the way he played the keyboards, evidently using bass pedals to give the keyboard parts a distinctly basslike affect. Listening to his keyboard playing I heard melodies that seemed to dip into the well of his background of serious symphonic music, hinting at the ambience of sound in a cathedral, etc. This keyboard playing in Led Zepellin may also be something that is not noticed sometimes, but, to me, is awesome.

I personally think that most Zep fans would greatly miss JPJ if he was ever replaced in the band; similar to how many of us Stones fans feel that something is missing from their music since Bill Wyman retired - the new bass player does not impart that same vibe to the music.

I think there are some bass players that have earned the respect of the fans of many bands, including, also, The Who and the incomparable John Entwhistle.

Also, I don't know if the fans knew it or not, but many great muscians like, as stated earlier, Albert Collins relied strongly on their bass players and had great respect for them. But this goes along with the thinking that in general bass players contributions are commonly appreciated by other muscians most.

Also I think it is true that in some bands bass players are relegated to minor roles hidden in the background. On the other hand great muscians like BB King and Stevie Ray Vaughn would often feature each member of their bands in live performances, giving them time to feature some awesome lead solo's for the benefit of the audience, reinforcing publicly that they didn't produce their awesome performance alone.

[NWBasser]

I just found this joke about bass players:


An explorer is deep in the jungle, being led by a native guide. They are hacking their
way through dense tropical growth when suddenly drums start pounding in the distance.
The explorer freezes. His guide reassures him: “no worry. Drums good.” “The
drums are good? No danger?”
“Yes, drums good. Keep going.”
The explorer takes a deep breath and they trudge on. As the jungle gets thicker and
denser, and dusk starts to fall, the drums continue, pounding louder, ever closer. The explorer
asks again, “Are you sure those drums are okay... nothing to be afraid of? It
sounds like they're getting louder.”
“No. No worry. Drums good.”
They continue on.
As night falls and they start to break camp, the drums become even louder, more intense.
The explorer cannot shake a sense that they spell impending doom, but his guide continues
to reassure him: “drums good.”
Then, just as darkness settles most completely over the jungle, the drums suddenly stop.
The guide's face goes ashen, a look of horror in his eyes! The explorer asks, “What?
What's the matter? The drums stopped – is that bad?”
The guide responds, “When drums stop, very bad! Bad thing coming! No good for anybody!”
“What!? What is it? What happens after the drums stop!?!”

The guide responds: “Bass solo.”

[marnold***]

I may well come up short on an explanation, but I guess the point is that the particular way each note is played on the bass may have an influence on the music.

I took that quote to mean the ability to play deep in the pocket, regardless of whether you are playing one note or 50. The bluegrass bass lines are very simple, but if the bass player is not in the pocket, the songs going to sound like they're on the verge of falling apart. In my limited musical experience, there is no cooler feeling than being locked in with the drummer in a groove about a mile deep. I wish I could bottle that feeling.

[Eric***]

I'm not totally clear on it myself, but I think what the author is getting at is the attention paid to each note by the pro studio bassists is what sets them apart. I don't think mojo has anything to do with it.

I may well come up short on an explanation, but I guess the point is that the particular way each note is played on the bass may have an influence on the music. Much same way that different chord forms will change the feel of a tune with guitar. So, if you change note duration, attack, plucking position, etc. makes for a suit of small details with a large change is how the music is perceived.

I'm not sure just how close I am to this person's interpretation of things, but I've been paying a lot of attention to how I approach and play notes lately and am finding interesting things going on.

I think it's a given that a bass player should have good timing. The really exceptional ones can intentionally play around either a bit behind or ahead of the beat and make it sound good. I think that would only apply to jazz-fusion though...

Sorry, I meant to respond to this earlier. I can understand that explanation, as well as marnold's thing about being in the pocket; no doubt a bass is crucial to bringing a band together and it's not always in completely quantifiable terms. I think anybody who has listened to a lot of music can probably attest to how each instrument (including the bass, obviously) can have a big impact on the overall result. This thread has actually made me pay attention to how much a bass clicks with the rhythm of a song when I listen to music now, which is an interesting to thing to listen to in and of itself.

I think I just didn't like what I perceived to be a little bit of dramatic bluster in the quote you posted, because it ends up obscuring his main point, that being more or less what you restated.

BTW, nice joke. My wife liked it too.

[Tig***]

I respect some bass players more than others

[R_of_G]

So the correct answer is Ron Carter?

[Duffy]

Another bass player I think most fans know by name is the bass player for Fleetwood Mac.



John McVie.

[Duffy]

Here is another one that I think most fans know and respect the bass player. He adds a to the overall vibe produced by Stevie Nicks and Lindsay Buckingham, and grooves with Mick Fleetwood. A lot of Fleetwood Mac fans would identify the bass player as John McVie. And how about Roger Waters, admittedly also a singer but definitely would probably be identified as the bass player by most Pink Floyd fans.



I would admit that most ancillary bass players that are not founding members would be difficult for fans to identify without asking some questions.

[NWBasser]

Duffy, it's true that a lot of fans would identify Roger Waters although a fair degree of controversy surrounds his bass playing.

It's my understanding that most, if not all, of PF's studio bass work was done by Gilmour. It was reported that Roger could barely manage the instrument for their live shows.

I think Gilmour stated that there's no way that Roger could have ever done the fretless parts found on several of their tunes.

Perhaps Roger's greatest contribution to the band was his singing and songwriting.

[NWBasser]

I respect some bass players more than others

Mmmmmm....sweet.

[Duffy]

Interesting.

[Duffy]

Duffy, it's true that a lot of fans would identify Roger Waters although a fair degree of controversy surrounds his bass playing.

It's my understanding that most, if not all, of PF's studio bass work was done by Gilmour. It was reported that Roger could barely manage the instrument for their live shows.

I think Gilmour stated that there's no way that Roger could have ever done the fretless parts found on several of their tunes.

Perhaps Roger's greatest contribution to the band was his singing and songwriting.

Interesting. - accidrntally left the quote out.

[Bookkeeper's Son]

Chris Squire is no slouch on bass......

[NWBasser]

Chris Squire is no slouch on bass......

Oh, quite true!!