Favourite Marshall Amph?

[deeaa*]

For my use, if I ever could only get one amp for every use I can imagine for the rest of my life, the x1974 would be a good contender. The Ceriatone I had was an almost exact copy, only twice the power, and it can give the sound I want with reasonable volumes.

The thing with Marshalls is - and remember I love their sound - is that they almost invariably need to be played quite loud for them to sound great. Sure there are plenty of master volume models but the real sound on them always comes at very high volumes really. It's always all about the preamp/poweramp interaction the most; that's the key to getting great Marshall sounds.

Pretty much all tube Marshall heads wih EL34's can sound more or less similar when cranked, IMO. Of course there are differences but the basic thing is quite the same, you recognize it anywhere. It's got the punch and the bite to be heard through any wall of noise and it's compact and hard-hitting but still a pleasure to hear. Even without lots of distortion or drive it still has this primal scream thing to it that just shouts at the listener with a great, dynamic roar.

That's the same for almost all JMP forward tube heads, more or less.

The JCM800 2210 I had for instance was 100W and the thing was just crazy loud when it sounded really good, and I never really liked the drive channel on it. The same applies to most any, even 50W Marshalls, but with some tricks they can be made a little quieter too while retaining the sound, but not much. They are for loud bands, period.

But if you can crank 'em, it's hard to get bad sounds from them. They're unforgiving in that they reveal player errors and bad tune like nothing else though, because there's not much distortion to their crunch...I remember playing a buddy's slightly JMP without pedals in the 80's...I felt like every single slip of my fingers became so loud, every mistake like a mountain. I was so glad to get back to playing the 800 series with a Boss SD-1 in front...soo much easier to play. But, yeah, even then the preference was a pedal in front of the clean 800 channel not the drive channel.

Now I'm modding my JVM so that it gets closer to the 800 series overall; since it's been made into such a compromise, best of all worlds, it's too geared towards preamp section sounds. Which is fine, the D/I sound is great, but it's a little lacking in dynamics and the power tube punch of the originals.

So what I'm doing is adding a choke and changing the way the poweramp gets fed its signals, less compression and most importantly WAY less negative feedback to the power stage to 'free it up'...the downsides will be that it will get loud MUCH quicker and I'll lose some ability to play it at lesser volumes, but it should really wake the poweramp punch up.

We'll see. I love the amp and if I can get that JMP/JCM power tube punch for real, I'll never part with it.

[markb]

Not that I'm an expert, but I did quite a bit of reading on the topic while I built my JTM45, and I believe the difference between the original Bassman and the JTM45 are a little more substantial than that. IMHO, it breaks down like this.

The Bassman has a 12AY7 as V1 and the JTM has a 12AX7. That's a big difference of itself. I've just received a NOS 12AY7 so I can try it in my JTM style amp and see what happens. I would expect much less gain.

The two have completely different output transformers. The Fender with a single 2 Ohm tap, the JTM with multiple taps. They also have different primary impedance's.

I think the chokes were different values

I think both started with 5881 bottles, then the JTM pretty quickly went to KT66's

Then there's the speakers and the various open and closed back designs used.

So yeah, for sure the JTM was based on the 5F6-A Bassman, but I don't believe, based on what I've been reading, that they are as close as often mentioned on the net. Which is, of course, why they sound different. I read one post somewhere that said the difference in sound was down to the fact that one had American parts and one British. I laughed about that for a while.

Certainly a few more changes. The speakers did make a real difference. Same basic circuit, different results. A bit like a smart cover version that sounds original in itself.
In the early days Marshall (and by Marshall I mean Ken Bran) sourced parts from Henry's electronic shop in the Tottenham Court Road at the far end of the no 7 bus route from the shop in Hanwell. As Marshall grew the parts used became more consistent.

[Ch0jin]

... A bit like a smart cover version that sounds original in itself. .

Well said!

[Eric***]

The thing with Marshalls is - and remember I love their sound - is that they almost invariably need to be played quite loud for them to sound great. Sure there are plenty of master volume models but the real sound on them always comes at very high volumes really. It's always all about the preamp/poweramp interaction the most; that's the key to getting great Marshall sounds.

You know, I realize your reasoning for the played-loud thing is because of the interaction between the different sections of the amp, but I've found this to be true even when playing facsimiles of Marshalls. The whole Marshall tone thing just doesn't sound very good at low volumes. Some amps sound great at low volume, but I think the roar of a Marshall is so so much better at loud volumes, because it just kind of descends into fuzziness and loses a bunch of the power when it's soft. And my only experience with it is from modelers, pedals, some similarly designed tube amps, and the music I've listened to on recordings for years and years.

I just find it curious that for me, it's not just about power tube saturation or anything, but that low volumes don't do justice to the sound.

[deeaa*]

exactly eric. thatswhy I like jmp-1 pre and jvm d/I out...best Marshall sounds at low volume. I just missed my jvm though...boy it sounds great now. will post about it later.

[mapka]

Voted for this one!


P1010053 by mapka2000, on Flickr

[deeaa*]

ah the 900. There are many kinds of 900 out there. I've gotten some of my best Marshhall sounds from an old 900. el34. just a hotrod 800...like em.

[NWBasser]

The thing with Marshalls is - and remember I love their sound - is that they almost invariably need to be played quite loud for them to sound great.

I wonder how magnificent the tone is when you've become deaf from cranking it over the years?

[Photomike666]

How close are the modern solid state Marshall's? Do they give you good tone at the lower volume levels. I don't gig but love the sound of Marshall. I'm considering an mg series, probably the 102?

[deeaa*]

Hehe yeah NWBasser...true. Need to wear plugs :-)

Photomike: I was very impressed with this SS marshall rig I tried already a year back, especially the clean channel was very surprisingly good. It was one of these newer valvestate or such, with a single preamp tube and otherwise SS.

IMO, for the best Marshall type screaming power sound at home playing volumes, a Tech-21 TM-10 or 30 is better than any Marshall I ever tried. They just nail it. And on budget, I have this Behringer GMX-110 which is a TM-30 copy and it's got a really killer Marshall-type driven sound.

[Katastrophe]

How close are the modern solid state Marshall's? Do they give you good tone at the lower volume levels. I don't gig but love the sound of Marshall. I'm considering an mg series, probably the 102?

You're likely to get a varied response about the MG series Marshalls, with a good number saying, "They suck!" and another group saying, "They rock!" I've played through a couple of the MG4 series, and thought they were good, solid amphs, capable of getting very close to that Marshall crunch. They WILL require some tweaking to get them where you want them.

That said, I played through the previous version (before they came out with the MG4), it was a half stack. It sounded like a fizzy mess.

Here's a link to "Marshall Theatre," where they put one through its paces. Clicky

[marnold***]

Probably whichever one my Jet City is based on. Can't remember if it's originally a JCM800 or 900 circuit.

[markb]

How close are the modern solid state Marshall's? Do they give you good tone at the lower volume levels. I don't gig but love the sound of Marshall. I'm considering an mg series, probably the 102?

Go for a modelling amp if you want reasonably realistic tones at low levels. The Vox Valvetronix amps for instance have power attenuators built in and some nice models of classic Marshalls (and Voxes, Fenders, etc). You will never get good low volume sounds out of a 2x12 100w Marshall be it valve or solid state. The SS amp will probably have a headphone socket though.

As Dee said, Tech21 do it in an analogue manner. I had a TM60 for years, great tones but the "Marshall" side definitely sounded better at stage volumes.

If it has to be a Marshall, look on eBay for a "Lead 12" or "Reverb 12" combo (model 5205 rings a bell here) from the 80s. Now there was a solid state Marshall that had "that sound". I got one for free once when a friend found it in his attic.

[Katastrophe]

Holy carp! I just found this vid of a JTM 45 and a Strat. With a couple pedals, this thing sounds flippin' HUGE! I want one, but I'll never be able to afford it... unless someone wants to buy a kidney. (Just kidding... the kidney's not for sale.)

[bcdon***]

... unless someone wants to buy a kidney. (Just kidding... the kidney's not for sale.)

PM'd.

EDIT: Oh, you were kidding.. sorry.

[guitartango]

Holy carp! I just found this vid of a JTM 45 and a Strat. With a couple pedals, this thing sounds flippin' HUGE! I want one, but I'll never be able to afford it... unless someone wants to buy a kidney. (Just kidding... the kidney's not for sale.)

Never afford it ?

I thought about that when I purchased the Marshall 1974x, but add up all the money that you already spent on amps and the money you will spend in the next ten years more equipment , it makes sense to buy one amp which will last and last.

Just my two cents

[Eric***]

Never afford it ?

I thought about that when I purchased the Marshall 1974x, but add up all the money that you already spent on amps and the money you will spend in the next ten years more equipment , it makes sense to buy one amp which will last and last.

Just my two cents

I might remind you that not everyone is in the same financial situation, so not everyone can just go out and buy something expensive. What has been spent is spent, and what will be spent over the next 10 years is not cash in hand at the moment. Different folks have different circumstances, that's all.

[guitartango]

Eric

I do agree but then again how much money do people waste on things like cigarettes, drink etc. I saved up for years so that i could buy a decent amp, don't forgot things are cheaper in America compared to the UK.

[bcdon***]

I might remind you that not everyone is in the same financial situation, so not everyone can just go out and buy something expensive. What has been spent is spent, and what will be spent over the next 10 years is not cash in hand at the moment. Different folks have different circumstances, that's all.

I hardly think this needs pointing out, guitartango was just giving his opinion.