How about that US election?

[Robert****]

Since there aren't many people using this forum anymore, I think we can try expanding our boundaries a bit - POLITICS & RELIGION can be discussed.

However, you may not behave in nasty ways. Do not attack someone with accusations or belittlement. Do try to understand where other people are coming from, and look for ways to bridge the gap between dissimilar world views.

Let's see if we can do it.

With that said, what do you guys think of the US election?

My view is people wanted change more than stability. They got it.

It saddens me to know that USA will have a president who regularly uses racist, misogynist, xenophobic statements and bullying tactics. It also saddens me that young people may "look up" to Trump, since his tactics obviously worked for him. His behaviour may be something people take after, which I think is not just sad - it's frightening.

I do think he deserves a chance though. I feel it's not going to end well, but time will tell. I hope I am wrong.

[duhvoodooman***]

It saddens me to know that USA will have a president who regularly uses racist, misogynist, xenophobic statements and bullying tactics. It also saddens me that young people may "look up" to Trump, since his tactics obviously worked for him. His behaviour may be something people take after, which I think is not just sad - it's frightening.

I do think he deserves a chance though. I feel it's not going to end well, but time will tell. I hope I am wrong.

This summarizes my feelings very accurately.

[marnold***]

I'm hoping that this is the kick in the pants that both the Dems and the GOP desperately needed. Remember that the GOP wasn't exactly thrilled with having Trump as its nominee. Both parties had come across as elitist and desperately out of touch with what the majority of Americans face every day. Both need to rethink how they operate. If not, they will go the way of the Whigs.

Full disclosure: I voted, but not for either of the major parties--the first time I've done that in my 30 years of voting.

[piebaldpython***]

Yeah, it was a demolition derby of an election. I will echo the sentiments of DVM and Robert by saying the implicit "hatred" scares the crap out of me. My daughter is a POC with many LGBT friends, some of who are on the ACA......and so they wonder what will happen to them.

[tjcurtin1]

+1 to Robert and Vood's observations, except I am much less sanguine about the outcome. If my folks weren't still here, I'd be looking to move - I hear New Zealand is really nice, and I have relatives there. Would be hard to decide which guitars to sell and which couple to take (just to insert some guitar content )

[Robert****]

I don't see how Trump will be able to make people "come together". Not at all.

I shake my head at these people on both sides who spread so much hate towards the other side - it's all over social media and comments on newspaper articles. We have it here in Canada too. Incredibly far fetched accusation and claims, obviously based on emotion. I actually asked a student why he states Hillary is such a criminal. He said there is so much evidence and it's out in the public. I said "can you show me? I'd like to know what you know". Of course he couldn't. He just "knows". He believes it firmly. I mean, I am not defending anyone - I just think criminals should be prosecuted, and if there is not enough evidence, leave it be and move on. Doesn't that seem logical? Put Hillary in jail if she is guilty, or stop complaining about it, and especially - stop spreading false information around. There's so much of that.

The same goes for Trump. If he is guilty of sexual assault, start the trial and bring it on. If there isn't evidence, leave it be and move on. People in general don't do that though, do they?

[poodlesrule]

Hey guys, coming out of the woodwork to say:

We all been enrolled in Trump University, want it or not...!

I really hope I am wrong with this, but I fear this is going to set some folks(*) back ten years or more.

(*) young folks, small businesses, growing families.

I am not sure if I want to welcome T voters in my house, and this is very much not like me. They did not see the very numerous and obvious signs of trouble that were displayed and they went ahead with it.
And screw the political establishment to allow "I will keep you in suspense" without a peep. A terrible thing to say.

[kidsmoke*]

this is very cool to see. A calm exchange on this topic on a forum. Says a lot.

I'm exhausted. And frightened. As a father of two kids in their 20's, I wonder what the next decade will bring.

Thanks for encouraging this discourse, Robert.

[Jipes***]

The election of Trump is just on the same wave that turn England to Brexit, Poland or Turkey to become more authoritary regims and denying human rights unfortunately hatred is now obvious all over Europe against who ever name them Migrants, Gay people, Ecologists and so on. It's true that the politicians are way out and disconnected with what people needs but I have hard times ti imagine that a millionaire guy who has bankrupted many companies and throwing people out in the streets will lead USA to success for the poor people. In my hometown I had the real bad surprise to learn that we have the highest percentage of people living below poverty threshold (less than 500 euros per month).

My oh my humans are sometimes so desesperating

[kidsmoke*]

Jipes, Interesting to hear your perspective, thank you! By Hometown, do you mean Mulhouse? and do you mean relative to all of France? Why do you suppose that is? Proximity to Germany and Switzerland? I think it's fascinating stuff, this evolution to whatever the next geo-political form will be.

[Jipes***]

Yes Mulhouse I should have precise that it's in respect to all mid cities which are above 100.000 inhabitants. Still it's pretty frightening because you hardly realize that when you live daily there . There's only few homeless visible so it's really families now and not single individuals who have trouble paying the rent and getting enough food. The charity program "Resto du Coeurs" see the population almost doubling each year to their weekly free food distribution

[jtees4]

I think Trump will do good. He is not a Politician, and he never has been one. That is what real change is about. If he sucks, he will be gone. The Democratic party has left Democrats like me out. I am fairly old and consider myself a JFK Democrat, the current Democratic party is no where near anything JFK believed in. I have friends that are pretty big in The Green Party in NYC. I don't agree with much of their politics BUT I can tell you....I respect them because they are real. They were equally against The Democrat's AND The Republicans. In fact they are very upset at Jill Stein's recount efforts, and have abandoned her too. I even had respect for Bernie UNTIL he sold out and backed Hillary. THAT is NOT the definition of a revolution....sorry. And Senator Warren pretty much did the same thing, she must have been kicking herself for not running....she would have beaten Bernie and Hillary and probably WON the election. Just one opinion....and if this discussion can stay civil here....then that would be great, because I have not seen a civil discussion ANYWHERE.

[tjcurtin1]

I agree about the civil discussion - hard to find and much appreciated.

You describe yourself much as I would. However, I don't find anything as objectionable (or frightening) about any of the Dems - not by a thousand miles - as I do about Trump. The problem as I see it is, if he sucks he may end up being gone, but the potential damage that he could do in the meantime is unimaginable - and much of it very likely irreparable.

[Robert****]

It seems Trump does stupid things almost every day. The Taiwan/China issue - that's not good at all. What could happen is that Taiwan get in deeper problems with China, and then expect USA to help them. I do not think it's a good idea for USA to piss off China.

His tendency to avoid media and call them biased (when he doesn't like what they report) is also scary. Their job is to challenge whoever is in government - without them we wouldn't have a clue what is really going on. The government is always challenged by media, and they should be. It's part of a democracy. So keeping information from media and slamming them when they reports things that put the government in negative light - perhaps that's what he wants? Immediately, names like Stalin and Mao comes to mind...

[jtees4]

It seems Trump does stupid things almost every day. The Taiwan/China issue - that's not good at all. What could happen is that Taiwan get in deeper problems with China, and then expect USA to help them. I do not think it's a good idea for USA to piss off China.

His tendency to avoid media and call them biased (when he doesn't like what they report) is also scary. Their job is to challenge whoever is in government - without them we wouldn't have a clue what is really going on. The government is always challenged by media, and they should be. It's part of a democracy. So keeping information from media and slamming them when they reports things that put the government in negative light - perhaps that's what he wants? Immediately, names like Stalin and Mao comes to mind...

I would have to disagree using the word "stupid". Time will tell if what he does is stupid, he is not even sworn in yet. As far as China/Taiwan...China has been building up in the area for many years (Under Bush and Obama...maybe even Clinton)....and nothing has been done about it. I don't think the US should be afraid to "piss off" China, that just sounds like pure weakness and I believe a big reason why Trump won. People really do want change, maybe they'll regret it....but that's what it comes down to IMHO.
I also would not agree about Trump avoiding the media, it's true he has avoided some of the "normal media channels and expectations"....but he used social media and all of the media reported it 24/7....he out media'd Hillary while she spent 20 times more money than him. I'd call that smart. I don't feel Hillary was challenged much by the media at all....Bernie was (cause that's what the DNC wanted done). Bernie is the one that got screwed.
A totally agree with you that the media's biggest job is to challenge government, but they really need to do it evenhandedly, and YES that goes for both sides.

[Robert****]

I call his actions stupid because what he does makes the USA look stupid to a large part of the rest of the world. Except for right wing extremists.

International politics is more than just the USA. There is a whole world outside the USA. The idea that the USA decides the rules and everyone else has to follow can easily backfire.

[duhvoodooman***]

I don't feel Hillary was challenged much by the media at all....

Really?? The constant coverage of her e-mail server issues didn't qualify as being "challenged?" Rightly or wrongly, that coverage kept emphasizing the "untrustworthy" criticism about her and (IMO) more than any other single issue, cost her the election. In the key battleground states of PA, MI and WI, Clinton lost by a combined 103,000 votes out of about 13.1 million cast--a difference of less than 0.8%. If those three states go for the Dems, Clinton wins 278 - 260. It was that close....

[tjcurtin1]

Not to mention the unbelievable - and law- and custom-bending Comey business in the last week of the election - though that is in another sphere of law/politics..

[jtees4]

Really?? The constant coverage of her e-mail server issues didn't qualify as being "challenged?" Rightly or wrongly, that coverage kept emphasizing the "untrustworthy" criticism about her and (IMO) more than any other single issue, cost her the election. In the key battleground states of PA, MI and WI, Clinton lost by a combined 103,000 votes out of about 13.1 million cast--a difference of less than 0.8%. If those three states go for the Dems, Clinton wins 278 - 260. It was that close....

As far as the emails, there was plenty of coverage....but did they ask the hard questions or just report that republicans were still at it blah blah blah. I heard a lot of coverage that really amounted to nothing. How many times did they point out that it wasn't really about emails, but about having an unsecured server in her house? About 30,000+ deleted emails etc. Is this really acceptable?
I totally agree with you about how close the election was. I think Hillary or her campaign really should be blamed, she decided that certain States were not worth going to because she "had them in the bag". Well, she was left holding the bag....big mistake. Remember when all the news reported that Trump was going to Michigan, they all asked "why is he wasting his time going there where he can't win?". People may not feel he is smart, but he certainly was right. The fact is, Hillary's time was 2008. It was her turn as far as Dems were concerned, she blew it, Barack Obama did not cooperate and beat her. She should not have been running again, the Dems put up a weak old candidate and lost. To me, that was the real bottom line. IMHO Biden or Warren would have won. Nothing to do with Trump.