Fender Champion 600

[tunghaichuan***]

For comparison's sake, which Mercury OT would work?

To tell the truth, I don't know. You might contact Mercury and see if they will sell you just the OT. I know the make a mod kit for the Champ.

The one thing I would be sure of is if the OT will fit on the chassis. The stock OT is tiny and fairly close to the 6V6. If you use the Mercury you may have to relocate the OT to another spot on the chassis.

tung

[tot_Ou_tard]

To tell the truth, I don't know. You might contact Mercury and see if they will sell you just the OT. I know the make a mod kit for the Champ.

The one thing I would be sure of is if the OT will fit on the chassis. The stock OT is tiny and fairly close to the 6V6. If you use the Mercury you may have to relocate the OT to another spot on the chassis.

tung

They say on the website that they won't sell you the OT from the kit separately, but they do have lots of champ OTs that they will sell.

[tot_Ou_tard]

I emailed Mercury & they verified that they won't sell the OT from the kit.

I just ordered the Heyboer.

http://www.turretboards.com/valve_ju...placement%20OT

[tunghaichuan***]

I would be very surprised if the Heyboer OT didn't sound good. The 6.6k primary will sound great with a 6V6.

I'm not a big fan of MM. The Valve Junior kit that they sell has two transformers you don't need, the PT and the choke. That's why they don't sell OT without the kit, no one would buy the kit otherwise.

There is also the issue of physical size. The Heyboer has the same mounting footprint as the VJ OT, which has the same mounting footprint of the Champ 600. The Heyboer should bolt right up with no modifications. I'm not sure about the MM OT; I believe it is physically much bigger than the Heyboer and may not fit on the 600's chassis well.

I think you made the right choice. :

tung

I emailed Mercury & they verified that they won't sell the OT from the kit.

I just ordered the Heyboer.

http://www.turretboards.com/valve_ju...placement%20OT

[tot_Ou_tard]

Coolio! A friend at work with mucho soldering experience is gonna help me.

I hope to pick up some good soldering tips in the process.

[tot_Ou_tard]

tung,

What do you think of this Heyboer sold by Allen Amps? The price is essentially what I paid for the one from turretboards. Is that 8k primary too much? How exactly does varying the primary impendance (from low to high) impact the tone?

Upgrade single-ended output transformer for Champ™ style amps using a single 6V6 power tube (8,000 ohm primary impedance) and either a stock 4 ohm or custom 8 ohm speaker. Custom wound exclusively for Allen Amplification and made in the USA by Heyboer. Smaller than the TO11C, the TO8C is more appropriate for a BF/SF Champ™, VibroChamp™ or Bronco™ style chassis but a big improvement over the stock unit. Rated 60ma continuous. Wound on a paper tube with paper-layered and interleaved windings. Special grain-oriented high-performance lamination steel is used for maximum output and clarity. Excellent choice for a 6V6 based 5F1, 5F2A or similar amp. 2-1/4"H x 2"W with 2-3/8" mounting centers and weighing 1 lb. Durable black oxide finish. 6" Unistrand pretinned leads for fast installation. Includes stainless-steel mounting hardware!

[tunghaichuan***]

I have not tried it. I was thinking of trying the Heyboer replacement he sells for the Blackheart Little Giant amps. I've heard nothing but good things about Allen's Heyboer replacement OTs.

I believe vintage Blackface and Silverfact Champs and Vibro Champs used an OT with a 7.5k primary. So 8k is not out of line for a 6V6. It probably wouldn't sound that great in an SE EL84 circuit like the Valve Junior. An SE EL84 tube wants to "see" about 5K or so. So the Heyboer from Turretboards.com is a little high for an EL84, but a little low for a 6V6.

Generally speaking, the lower the primary of the OT (within reason) the more power the circuit puts out, but at the expense of added distortion. The higher the primary, the cleaner the output but at the expense of less power. It is not a good idea to go too low or too high as either one can cause problems. Not to worry though. When I use Hammond 125ESE OTs with 6V6s, I use the 5K setting and they sound fine. So anything from about 5K to 8K works well for a 6V6. EL84s tend to be a little more sensitive to the primary so 4k-6k is a reasonable range.

tung

tung,

What do you think of this Heyboer sold by Allen Amps? The price is essentially what I paid for the one from turretboards. Is that 8k primary too much? How exactly does varying the primary impendance (from low to high) impact the tone?

Upgrade single-ended output transformer for Champ™ style amps using a single 6V6 power tube (8,000 ohm primary impedance) and either a stock 4 ohm or custom 8 ohm speaker. Custom wound exclusively for Allen Amplification and made in the USA by Heyboer. Smaller than the TO11C, the TO8C is more appropriate for a BF/SF Champ™, VibroChamp™ or Bronco™ style chassis but a big improvement over the stock unit. Rated 60ma continuous. Wound on a paper tube with paper-layered and interleaved windings. Special grain-oriented high-performance lamination steel is used for maximum output and clarity. Excellent choice for a 6V6 based 5F1, 5F2A or similar amp. 2-1/4"H x 2"W with 2-3/8" mounting centers and weighing 1 lb. Durable black oxide finish. 6" Unistrand pretinned leads for fast installation. Includes stainless-steel mounting hardware!

[ShortBuSX]

Are yall replacing the output transformer because its noisy?
Ive got a buddy whos GASin for one of those Gretsch 600 deals.

[tunghaichuan***]

Are yall replacing the output transformer because its noisy?
Ive got a buddy whos GASin for one of those Gretsch 600 deals.

I'm going to replace the OT in mine because it is small and cheesy looking. It only has a 4 ohm tap, so it can only be connected to a 4 ohm speaker (the stock speaker doesn't sound that good). Since the Champ 600 and Gretsch have a chassis-mounted output jacks, an OT with multiple output taps will allow connection to different cabs. I'm even thinking of putting in an impedance selector to make it more flexible.

tung

[tot_Ou_tard]

I cancelled my order from turretboards & instead got the Heyboer from Allen Amps.

I also picked up a Carling 3-postion toggle switch (On-Standby-Play) and a switchcraft shorting 1/4" jack.

These came in today.

The jack is to put in an 8 Ohm speaker out.

Can anyone tell me how to wire up the standby switch & create the 8 Ohm Out.

The wiring diagram on the transformer has two wires for the 8K primary and three additional wires: ground, 4Ohm, 8Ohm.

[tunghaichuan***]

I cancelled my order from turretboards & instead got the Heyboer from Allen Amps.

Interesting, any reason why? Just curious.

I also picked up a Carling 3-postion toggle switch (On-Standby-Play) and a switchcraft shorting 1/4" jack.

It's been a while since I wired one of those, I'll see if I can dig out some info I had.

These came in today.

The jack is to put in an 8 Ohm speaker out.

Can anyone tell me how to wire up the standby switch & create the 8 Ohm Out.

The wiring diagram on the transformer has two wires for the 8K primary and three additional wires: ground, 4Ohm, 8Ohm.

I believe the 4 ohm jack on the chassis is grounded to the chassis, no? (i.e., no insulating washers, the jack is attached directly to the chassis.)

I'll have to look at my Champ to see, but you'll have to drill another hole for the 8 ohm jack. Once it is installed (and the OT) you solder the 8 ohm tap from the OT to the hot lug of the 8 ohm jack. You solder the 4 ohm tap from the OT to the hot lug of the 4 ohm jack. If the jacks are chassis grounded, you solder the ground wire to either of the solder lugs on the 4 or 8 ohm jacks.

For the primary, there are two connections: the anode of the 6V6 and the B+. I believe these are spade connections on the PCB. You may want to pick up some female connectors at Lowe's or Home Depot. One wire goes to the B+ the other goes the the anode connection. The amp will squeal with the wires attached one way as there is negative feedback. If the amp squeals as you turn it up, reverse the two primary leads.

tung

[tot_Ou_tard]

Interesting, any reason why? Just curious.



It's been a while since I wired one of those, I'll see if I can dig out some info I had.




I believe the 4 ohm jack on the chassis is grounded to the chassis, no? (i.e., no insulating washers, the jack is attached directly to the chassis.)

I'll have to look at my Champ to see, but you'll have to drill another hole for the 8 ohm jack. Once it is installed (and the OT) you solder the 8 ohm tap from the OT to the hot lug of the 8 ohm jack. You solder the 4 ohm tap from the OT to the hot lug of the 4 ohm jack. If the jacks are chassis grounded, you solder the ground wire to either of the solder lugs on the 4 or 8 ohm jacks.

For the primary, there are two connections: the anode of the 6V6 and the B+. I believe these are spade connections on the PCB. You may want to pick up some female connectors at Lowe's or Home Depot. One wire goes to the B+ the other goes the the anode connection. The amp will squeal with the wires attached one way as there is negative feedback. If the amp squeals as you turn it up, reverse the two primary leads.

tung

No particular logical reason, but I got the standby switch & jack w/o additional shipping charges. I probably could've found those on the turretboards site, but then I'd still have to cancel the order.

Thanks tung! I'll have to take a look at the jack. How does one tell which lug is the hot one?

Yes, I'm planning on drilling a hole for the 8 Ohm out. To be more precise, my friend will & I'll watch & learn.

[tunghaichuan***]

No particular logical reason, but I got the standby switch & jack w/o additional shipping charges. I probably could've found those on the turretboards site, but then I'd still have to cancel the order.

Thanks tung! I'll have to take a look at the jack. How does one tell which lug is the hot one?

Yes, I'm planning on drilling a hole for the 8 Ohm out. To be more precise, my friend will & I'll watch & learn.

Does the jack look like this one:



That is a Switchcraft shorting jack. You won't need the shorting arm and it won't harm anything to leave it unconnected.

The lug that connects to the center ring is ground. You can tell by plugging in a guitar cord. The part closest to the cord is the grounded part. The tip is the hot lead. You can also test the jack with a DMM as well to get the connections.

tung

[tot_Ou_tard]

Does the jack look like this one:



That is a Switchcraft shorting jack. You won't need the shorting arm and it won't harm anything to leave it unconnected.

The lug that connects to the center ring is ground. You can tell by plugging in a guitar cord. The part closest to the cord is the grounded part. The tip is the hot lead. You can also test the jack with a DMM as well to get the connections.

tung

Thanks again tung!

I left the parts at work as I was gonna bring in the amp tomorrow.

I understand which lug is ground (near the word SWITCHCRAFT). What is the shorting arm? Is the tip the long metal part that will connect to the tip of 1/4" plug? If so, which of those two other lugs is connected to the tip (ie the hot lead)?

[tot_Ou_tard]

I know the answer, but I'm just making sure that the OT in the Champion 600 is the little silver transformer & not the much larger silcer & black one.

That is, the one on the left of the 6V6 in this shot of someone ele's modded Champion 600.

[tot_Ou_tard]

tung,

Do you know which wire I should have soldered to which lug of the Carling 3-position progressive toggle to get ON-STANDBY-OFF in the three positions?

Here is the Carling documentation on the switch.

http://www.carlingtech.com/pdf/cirdiagrams.pdf

[tunghaichuan***]

Thanks again tung!

I left the parts at work as I was gonna bring in the amp tomorrow.

I understand which lug is ground (near the word SWITCHCRAFT). What is the shorting arm? Is the tip the long metal part that will connect to the tip of 1/4" plug? If so, which of those two other lugs is connected to the tip (ie the hot lead)?

Correct, "Switchcraft" is stamped on the grounding ring. The shorting arm is the shorter of the two longer protusions from the jack. The longer one is the tip and connects to the either the 4 ohm or 8 ohm tap. The ground connects to the ground lug. I believe the shoring arm solder lug is in the center and the hot lead is at the bottom of the above photo.

tung

[tunghaichuan***]

I know the answer, but I'm just making sure that the OT in the Champion 600 is the little silver transformer & not the much larger silcer & black one.

That is, the one on the left of the 6V6 in this shot of someone ele's modded Champion 600.

You are correct. The OT is the one on the left in the above photo.

tung

[tunghaichuan***]

tung,

Do you know which wire I should have soldered to which lug of the Carling 3-position progressive toggle to get ON-STANDBY-OFF in the three positions?

Here is the Carling documentation on the switch.

http://www.carlingtech.com/pdf/cirdiagrams.pdf

I looked for my documentation. About ten years ago I bought two switches for my Super Champ and installed one. There was some documentation but I could not find it. I know it is somewhere, but I have a room full of amp-related junk to sift through. I'll post when I am able to find it.

tung