How many of us "know" the guitar neck?

[DaveO]

I saw a similiar question posted in another forum and was wondering how many Fretters know their necks.
I have started taking lessons again to learn the theory part of playing and how everything works together, instead of flailing around blindly and hoping to get it right.
Learning the neck is one of the things I have really been working on.
How about you?
Dave

[Jimi75]

Yeah, it started first with the notes low e string, then the octaves and after some couple years I felt 100% home.

What helped me the most was learning triads and especially the notes within these triads.

All in all, it was worth and absolutely needful learning all this.

[tot_Ou_tard]

I've been learning on my own, but I've been trying to incorporate theory and the structure of the fingerboard as I go along.

I'm slooooOooowwly getting there.

[Lev]

This may be obvious but what really works for me is to learn the basic bar (barre) chords right up to the twelft fret.

For example at the third fret you play G in a standard F shapped bar. You know that the root note on the low e is G and it's the same note on the high e. Now you should also know that the G note is repeated an ocatve higher on the d string two frets up.

So at this stage you should be able to work back and relate each note on the low e string, d string and high e string back to the F-shaped chord. Now you can apply the same logic to the A shapped bar chords.

If you know that playing an A shaped bar at the 5th fret gives you a D chord, then you should know that the D root note is on the A string at the fifth fret. If we apply the logic again that two strings down and two frets up you'll find an octave you can see that G string 7th fret note is also a D.

Hey presto we can now relate each note on the E, A, D, G and high E back to a bar chord shape. The only tricky part is the b string, however if we apply the logic that the octave of any note on the D string is 3 fets up on the b string (rather than 2 frets up) then we can relate each not on the b string to it's octave on the D. And we already know the notes on the D string from the F shaped bar chords.

Not sure I explained this very well but if you sit with your guitar and work out octaves you'll realise that all you need to actually memorise are the root notes on the low E and A strings (which if you know your bar chords you already know). After that it's just a matter of the in between sharps and flats...

So it's not quite as daunting as memorizing the whole fret board, hope I explained this well enough.

[Spudman***]

I did the same thing as Lev to get my basic knowledge of where the chord name would come from as well as the notes on the E's and A strings. After I got comfortable with that I got to the point where that if I envision a sound I kind of already know about which position on the neck it is going to come from. I got well acquainted with how hand position and sound are related I guess.

[sunvalleylaw]

About a few months ago, I got frustrated with learning how to play songs monkey see monkey do style and wanted to learn this very thing. My youthful piano experience gave me some insight, but it is much more linear, laid out in black and white. I posted on the topic and got some good advice here. I have asked my instructor to work with me on it and am slowly getting there. I may move in a different direction with my instruction soon but am slowly still learning doing what I am doing. I will incorporate the above tips into the process! :-)

[Robert****]

What do you mean exactly when you say Know the neck?

I know pretty good what notes I can play, in all keys. This comes from playing jazz standards in many different keys.

However, there are still "blank spots", where I get insecure and need to think where I am on the neck. This is a major drawback, since I don't want to think when I play. The only remedy is more practice!

Another thing is knowing the names of the notes. I am weaker here. I know what notes I can play over almost any chords, but I don't automatically know their names - I know their function. This is more useful for me. By function I mean for example the major 3rd and the perfect 5th over any chord, I know these instinctively but if you asked me the names of the notes, I'd have to start thinking again...

[Lev]

By function I mean for example the major 3rd and the perfect 5th over any chord, I know these instinctively but if you asked me the names of the notes, I'd have to start thinking again...

...now this is where I get lost.... I think I play alot by ear/instinct, when I hear major thirds, perfect 5ths etc my brain just goes into shutdown mode!
Can anyone suggest a dummies guide to tihs kinda thing?

[R_of_G]

I trust my ears to tell me where I am and where I'm going. That is not to say I am completely blind with respect to the fretboard, but when I play, I have no time for theory, only for what my ears are telling me.

[jpfeifer]

I had to learn all the notes of the guitar neck when I was learning how to sight read. At one point I focused pretty hard on sight reading when I was playing with a big band during high school and college years. Sight reading was always my weak point but it was great practice for learning where all the notes are on the neck. Since I had to audition for a spot in the band every year I was under pressure to be a better sight reader (especially in college). For sight reading you can take the 1-string at a time approach and learn all the notes for each string, or take the position approach and learn all the notes in various positions over the neck. It's good to do a little bit of both approaches because you learn something from each one.

However, these days I tend to think more about the intervals rather than the individual notes themselves, especially for improvising. For example, if I'm playing over a particular type of chord I try to be aware of where the various notes of the chord can be found (root, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th, etc.) Practicing arpeggios really helps you to visualize these patterns of chord tones like this. Then when I'm playing solos I try to land on these chord tones to get different sounds out of the chord progression. A lot of times if I find a lick that I really like from a recording, I'll try to figure out why the lick sounds good and usually it ends up being some combination of playing off of the chord tones and connecting them with scale tones or some other kind of chromatic thing. This is my life-long goal, ... to play all the right notes over the chord changes without having to think too much about what I'm doing. :-)

-- Jim

[DaveO]

My thing was that I could play the chords (if I knew them or had a chart) but I could figure out why it was a G7 or figure out the fingerings by looking at the name of the chord.
I could play scales but I didn't know the notes (too much tab).
Being self taught I think I do pretty good but need to step up to the next level. Not that it's a very big step from the first to the second
My teacher had been hammering into me to learn the major and minor scales by note, scale degree and chord.
I'm glad I have time at work to practice writing these out. Now I need to figure out how to sneak a guitar in to practice.
Dave

[BJunior]

What really put me to the point where I could play in any key was to learn the CAGED system and then break down each element of each chord into it's components. I originally used a Mel Bay book.. can't remember what it was called.... but still use it for it's rythm... (ah that's it... "Rythm guitar techniques" or something like that..) guitar progressions. Lot's of progressions which used excercises or progessions in each key but excercises modulate through the cycle of 4ths... pretty good way to immerse yourself...

Rich Severson has some good stuff as well... guitarcollege.com

But all of that is worthless if you don't apply it to songs you like to play... which is what Robert preaches a lot.

I like that philosophy..
Goes like this..

I want to play guitar really well...
What do you want to play
er... I just want to rock
Like who...Is there someone you really like or songs you listen to
Yeah I enjoy xxx
Okay, let's learn that song first, learn how to play it well and then you can put all the licks, tricks, and chord progressions in your guitar aresenal and at the same time we can talk about theory and why it works the way it does.


After you keep doing that pretty soon your going to be a good guitarist who has a great repertoire...

[DaveO]

BJunior, I use that whenever friends tell me "I want to learn to play. How do I start?"
I always tell them to pick a few songs that they know.
"But I don't know any songs" is the typical answer.
Yes you do. Any song that you can recognize from the first note. That's the song you know.
Pick a few because I am going to choose the easiest one to play first.
Once you can hear the song in your head you can translate it from paper to the guitar.
Dave

[Robert****]

...now this is where I get lost.... I think I play alot by ear/instinct, when I hear major thirds, perfect 5ths etc my brain just goes into shutdown mode!
Can anyone suggest a dummies guide to tihs kinda thing?

It's called Intervals. It's incredibly useful and it's not that hard to learn. I recommend all my students to learn the intervals, and practice learning to hear them - this is really the whole point.

See for example http://www.guitarlessonworld.com/lessons/lesson11.htm

Practice it here! http://www.good-ear.com/

I should really do a video lesson about this stuff, shouldn't I? Time, oh Time, where did you go?

[oldguy]

I know what it looks like...

I don't know it as well as I should...and never will.

I've heard players who learned "all" the chords... A,B,C,D,E,F,G...and wanted to play 3 chord country songs.... and had them tell me "I know it ALL now."
I'm serious!!! They could strum along and that's all they wanted.

I've heard players who had such an understanding of the fretboard I couldn't believe it, couldn't get my head wrapped around what they were doing.
Some played in tunings I didn't understand, fingerpicked fast as lightning.
And I'd be blown away listening to them, and compliment them, and they'd say "Thank you, that's very kind, but I'm still learning."

It all depends on whether you want to build an orange crate or a cathedral, I guess.

[tjcurtin1]

Thanks all, this was a really helpful discussion, with lots of good avenues to take. However, when I hear Robert say that has 'blank spots where he's insecure' on the neck, it scares me to think how long those avenues are and how far I have to go!

[DaveO]

I have been a chord player for years. I'm really working on learning my way around the neck so I won't freeze up on the solo's Not rocket science but just lots of practice.
Dave

[kiteman]

I learned the layout of my fretboard using the caged system. It uses 5 chord shapes linked together by root notes (octaves) and each chord shape will have the triads, scales, inversions, modes, pent scales, etc associated with it.

It's pretty generic this way but I've learned about voicing a lot. It helps a lot when I'm learning a song like this E major chord sound like the root's on the 5th string so I can use the C shaped or the A shaped chord to play it because these shapes has a root on the 5th string. If the root's on the 6th then the E shaped or the G shaped chord will do. Works the same with minor chords too.