Did you know this about scales?

[Robert****]

If you know the major scale shape all over the neck, you can play all the 7 modes of the scale by just moving this "scale shape".

For example, if you play C major over an F7 chord, you have F Lydian. Here are the different modes and how the C major scale relates:

C major scale over D - D Dorian
C major scale over E - E Phrygian
C major scale over F - F Lydian
C major scale over G - G Mixolydian
C major scale over A - A Aeolian
C major scale over B - B Locrian
C major scale over C - C Ionian

What's with the silly names? I don't know, it's all Greek to me!

Hope this helps someone!

[marnold***]

This is what struck me when I got the Metal Method course. The instructor (Doug Marks) said that he would teach all of the modes, but when I looked ahead in the tab booklets, there was only the patterns for A Aeolian/minor. I didn't realize that with that one set of patterns you could play any mode in any key. That was really one of those musical epiphanies.

I think the big turning point for me was realizing what you wrote, Robert. Even though I could use the A Aeolian pattern, it would sound major if played over a C Major chord progression and if I came around to the root enough in the solo. Conversely if you play it over an A Minor progression (ideally with tons of gain) it would sound like that minor goodness that all us headbangers know and love.

Another thing I thought was cool is that I could turn the progression from A Aeolian/minor to A Ionian/major simply by moving my patterns back three frets but keeping the same root. Way too cool.

Theory is hard (for me) to explain, but once you get it, it really opens up the fretboard. I also firmly believe that it is much easier to learn theory on a guitar than on a piano because the piano is all based around C major. The way I was taught piano it was like the black keys were almost mysterious or "accidental" (as they were often called). I was always amazed when someone could transpose something from major to minor on the piano on the fly. Now that I know theory, I can understand how they did it. I can do it on guitar, but I still don't think I could do it on a piano.

[SuperSwede]

I imagine that this thread could be very useful for a lot of fretters... why not make it a sticky?

[Tim]

Yes make it a sticky.

I feel a brain surge coming on. I hope to learn a lot form Robert’s and Justaguy’s Mixo-Blues threads. Let the discussions begin!

[duhvoodooman***]

What's with the silly names? I don't know, it's all Greek to me!

Apparently, these scale names are based upon the fact that much of the roots of modern musical theory go back to those scary-smart ancient Greeks. AAMOF, Pythagoras, the famous Greek philosopher-mathematician, is generally credited as having recognized that the musical intervals that are most pleasing to the human ear are related as the ratio of small integers. One smart dude, that Pythagoras!! You RAWK, Pyth-man!!

From Wikipedia:

Early Greek treatises on music referred to modes, or scales, which were named after certain of the Ancient Greek subgroups (Ionians, Dorians, Aeolians), one small region in central Greece (Locris), and certain neighboring (non-Greek) peoples from Asia Minor (Lydia, Phrygia).

They don't call me the Cliff Clavin of TheFret.Net for nothin'!!

[Tim]

From Wikipedia:

Early Greek treatises on music referred to modes, or scales, which were named after certain of the Ancient Greek subgroups (Ionians, Dorians, Aeolians), one small region in central Greece (Locris), and certain neighboring (non-Greek) peoples from Asia Minor (Lydia, Phrygia).

They don't call me the Cliff Clavin of TheFret.Net for nothin'!!

Nice lesson there VooDoo. This is new information to me. Now I know where the names came from ... now to learn to play the modes.

[ted s]

ya, thanks, just when I get the 5 pent. boxes nailed, someone has to bring up modes...

[besouropreto]

It's also good to understand modes based on their sonic qualities and other relationships to eachother.

The most basic classification is by the root chord quality: M7, m7, Mm7 (dom7), and Half dim7 (m7b5).

M7: Ionian, Lydian
dom7: Mixolydian
m7: Dorian, Aeolian, Phrygian
m7b5: Locrian

With any major scale, the following are the changes to the scale you would need to make to change the mode but keep the tonic or, the first note of the scale:

Ionian: natural, no changes
Lydian: #4
Mixolydian: b7
Dorian: b3, b7
Aeolian: b3, b6, b7
Phrygian: b2, b3, b6, b7
Locrian: b2, b3, b5, b6, b7

C Ionian: C D E F G A B C
C Lydian: C D E F# G A B C
C Mixolydian: C D E F G A Bb C
C Dorian: C D Eb F G A Bb C
C Aeolian: C D Eb F G Ab Bb C
C Phrygian: C Db Eb F G Ab Bb C
C Locrian: C Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C

The ordering above is by increasing accidentals, instead of the typical Ion Dor Phr Lyd Myx Aeo Loc ordering which is by appearence in the major scale.

[kiteman]

ya, thanks, just when I get the 5 pent. boxes nailed, someone has to bring up modes...

Uh, those 5 pent boxes are modes.

[marnold***]

Uh, those 5 pent boxes are modes.

Well . . . not really since the modes all have seven tones, but yes, you are right that the relationship between major and minor pentatonic are the same as the relationship between Ionian and Aeolian.

[ted s]

Thanks Marnold. That's kinda what I thought but couldn't put the words together.

[Robert****]

Uh, just to clarify this. The pentatonic boxes has nothing to do with the topic of my post. The pentatonic scale is different than any of the 7 modes I talk about. The difference is it has 2 fewer notes in it. The 5 pentatonic boxes are still the same one pentatonic scale. The boxes is a way to learn how to play that same pentatonic scale in more than one place on the neck. (Between you and me, I recommend forgetting about those boxes and instead learn the intervals of the scale, and learn those 5 notes all over the neck, regardless of boxes...)

Hope that clarifies this topic. Just read my blog post on the subject and it should all make sense..

[kiteman]

Well . . . not really since the modes all have seven tones, but yes, you are right that the relationship between major and minor pentatonic are the same as the relationship between Ionian and Aeolian.

What I mean is that the pent patterns can cover the modes even though it's only 5 notes. I got it from the caged system and while it shows 5 major chord shapes (minors too) the patterns came from them linked together by the root notes. Each chord shape has a scales, pents, triads, inversions, modes, etc associated with it.

Yea you can play same 5 notes all over the fretboard using the 5 boxes but the caged system explained the relationships.