Perfection of the imperfection

[Jimi75]

A long long time I tried to find out what it is that I like so many players that at first sight seem to have no "good" technique, nor the best sound according to today's "standards".

For sure I loved the lyrics, the voices, the songwrtiting, but why was I so impressed by the guitar playing then?

It is the "imperfect" playing that brings their music to life. So to me it is the perfection of the imperfection. I can relate way more to Albert King's lines and sharp bendings than to some other cats that play proper and clean.

A very very good example of the a.m. is Sean Costello. Check out Sean Costello at YouTube. This guy's playing seems so basic and fragile, but in fact it is so rich.

Now you could think that you just have to play a little worse to get more character in your music, but if it was that easy then...

I highly assume that this is the secret to players like BB King. How many people did I hear saying that this and that guy plays a million times better and faster than BB King. Sure BB isn't a Steve Vai, and apart from the fact that this man lives the blues you can find the above mentioned chararcteristics in his playing. No arpeggios or sweeps in his playing, but a manner of playing licks to die for!

So far so good
Jimi

[rkwrenn]

Good points.

Yep, for me music that is too perfect is exhausting. It is the unexpected twists and turns that make it exciting.

I mean the first 498 laps of the Daytona 500 are boring. Cars going in a circle making a continuous left turn. Only in the final laps are racers pushing the enevlope and taking chances does the real racing occur.

Cheers,

Bob

[Spudman***]

I quite agree. Those subtle nuances are what give the notes and phrases their character.

But to be more precise, what you mean to say is that imperfection IS perfection. If you perfect imperfection then you mean that it wasn't perfect in the first place.

I've had to go round and round with this with my Zen teacher. Some lessons can be quite painful.

[Jimi75]

I quite agree. Those subtle nuances are what give the notes and phrases their character.

But to be more precise, what you mean to say is that imperfection IS perfection. If you perfect imperfection the you mean that it wasnt perfect in the first place.

I've had to go round and round with this with my Zen teacher. Some lessons can be quite painful.

Dear Zen-Spud, you are right - that is exactly what I meant!

What a great Mantra:
imperfection IS perfection

[sunvalleylaw]

Interesting thread. I also really like "imperfect" music that just has that feeling and expression. Maybe an analogy is the Maverick vs. Iceman thing from TopGun. One guy is all technique, one guy is all instinct and feel. Now add in the Zen aspect, . . . interesting!

[R_of_G]

Perfection can quickly lead to boredom. This is not to say I don't enjoy listening to well-executed music playing, but I derive much greater enjoyment from that which is "irregular." It's listening to these little nuances and "mistakes" and how they are made to fit in with the rest of the playing that gets my attention. In my own playing I have long-tried to accept the theory that every note is the right next note, it's just a matter of how it's played or bent or slurred or how long it's hit, etc. When one sounds "wrong" it's what you do next to make it sound "right" that counts. There's a major difference between imperfection and sloppiness.

[sunvalleylaw]

There's a major difference between imperfection and sloppiness.

Another movie example, Bull Durham: When you make it to the show, you can let fungus grow on your shower shoes and it will be considered character, but until then, you are just a slob! (or something to that effect).

Seriously, playing out of the conventional wisdom as to technique, even if some consider it to be a mistake or not the ideal is what I prefer to listen to, but some fundamental technique needs to be there or it is just sloppy sounding as you say.

[R_of_G]

as far as film references go, i was thinking more along the lines of spinal tap's "there's a fine line between clever and stupid" but yours works as well. a lot of what attracts me to the musicians i listen to a lot is there fearlessness in experimentation, and not always for experimentation's sake, but organic nuances in their play that makes it unique to the player as well as integral to the song itself. An easy example to give is Marc Ribot's guitar playing for Tom Waits. I love the vast majority of Waits' music with or without Ribot, but the songs which do feature Ribot have unique elements which create a sonic world perfectly meshed with Wait's lyrics. His guitar counterpoints Waits' one-of-a-kind voice in a very specific way that even when Waits uses another guitar player, the approach is similar to Ribot's. Miles was able to get it out of all of his guitar players.

[guitartist]

This thread brings to mind an interview I read last week with Jim Dickinson, who played piano on the Stones' "Wild Horses" (and has produced many bands, and incidentally first took Jimmy Page to Sun studios. Oh yeah, he's also the father of 2/3 of the North Mississippi All-Stars.)

Anyhow, here is the relevant part of the interview:

"Q: Did they(the Stones) influence your style in any way?

Jim Dickinson: It's funny to say this now, 'cause my career has been the way it's been, but in 1969 I was basically an R&B session player and I was just starting to get successful. The thing that I learned that I was on the verge of getting too 'slick,' which is now ridiculous to say 'cause I'm known for my stuff being ragged and barely hangin' together, and I learned that from The 'Stones. The way they made records, certainly that record, they just came in like people off the street. I mean, there was no knowledge of recording - they didn't defer to the rules of the studio in any way - they just did what they f****n' believed in. I thought "wait a minute, who's right and who's wrong here?", y'know, obviously what they were doing was working. The best example I can give - I'm not saying that the songs were first takes, 'cause they played the songs over and over, but the first time they could get thru the song without a major mistake, that was the take. They played it back, listened to it and nobody said "should we do it again?", "should we do this, should we do that?" - none of that second-guessing that I was used to y'know? "

http://www.furious.com/perfect/jimdickinson.html

[bagger78]

B.B. King's playing is a perfect example. NO huge technically challenging stuff going on but its sooo hard to do. Mostly because when sits on that bend, you're not just hearing a guitar note, you're hearing his heart. I always play better when wifey comes home from shopping, cause I know I got the " no money left" blues.