Classic Player series. Does Fender lie?

[Lev]

I wonder if Lev's pickups are Abbys or not. Are they Lev?

I've not checked yet. I need to change strings this week so I'll do a full clean and take a look under the hood. For me I don't think it'll matter too much because I love the guitar for what it is, a great sounding, looking and playing guitar.

I'm not sure if Fender is acting unethically in this case, if Fender put inferior pickups in the guitar and got someone in the factory to put A.B. and a date on the back then that is unethical. And to be fair it would be very easy to do!

I think Fender has been caught off guard with the popularity of this instrument, I'm sure Abigail cannot possibly continue to oversee/hand wind each pickup that goes into the CP60's as well as fulfilling other orders for
CS69's. Therefore Fender has obviously changed their manufacturing process to cope with the demand. And they did in my opinion the 'ethical' thing by modifiying the spec on their website to reflect this (if they said nothing would anyone be the wiser?). So for me it's up to the retailer to keep up to date with spec changes and inform the customer. This comes back to the whole argument about how guitars are now sold out of massive warehouses rather than by friendly knowlegable people in your music store.

They key question here is are these Custom 69's inferior in quality or tone to the CS '69's? If so then Fender should at least be dropping the price a little to reflect this. If however these PUP's are identical in design and specification and are not available in any other production model outside the Custom Shop then I don't really have an issue with it.

I'll let you know what I find under the hood but either way I won't be putting the guitar on eBay.

[Lev]

Looks like they may have just dropped the word 'shop' from the name of these pickups across the board.....

[duhvoodooman***]

While I think it's completely appropriate to question Fender's business practices here, I would ask that posters stay away from broad and unjustified personal statements, such as implying that lawyers are evil. There are, of course, many lawyers who are admirable people, just as there are (for example) clergymen who are scum. It's the human condition--we come in all types, good, bad and (mostly!) in between.

It's a testament to this forum that we have both lawyers and clergymen here, and all of them seem to be great people! :

[abraxas]

While I think it's completely appropriate to question Fender's business practices here, I would ask that posters stay away from broad and unjustified personal statements, such as implying that lawyers are evil. There are, of course, many lawyers who are admirable people, just as there are (for example) clergymen who are scum. It's the human condition--we come in all types, good, bad and (mostly!) in between.

It's a testament to this forum that we have both lawyers and clergymen here, and all of them seem to be great people! :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humor

Thank you.

[Tone2TheBone]

This is getting interesting....

[duhvoodooman***]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humor

Thank you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype

You're welcome.

[warren0728]

This is getting interesting....

yep....

ww

[elavd]

I've just received an email from the Greek dealer of Fender!

Fender contacted the Greek dealer in order to solve the problem. So, a guy from the Greek dealer contacted me and told me that acoording to their records, the guitar didn't come to Greece through them (which is right, as I bought the guitar from Germany online)

He also told me that indeed it's a strange thing, and that I should contact Thomann (the online store that sold me the guitar) and ask them about this issue...

So I've just email Thomann and wait for their official answer...

[Plank_Spanker]

yep....

ww

Just a tad "testy"........................

[warren0728]

Just a tad "testy".........

definitely...i've got my popcorn and beverage and am just watching the show!

ww

[abraxas]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype

You're welcome.

[off topic]
duhvoodooman let me ask you: are you a lawyer? And if so, do you have anything to do with stereotypes as those depicted in movies and novels?

I’m a computer programmer. The most common stereotype about programmers and IT people in general, is that they are pencil-neck geeks with no social life whatsoever. Would you be surprised to find out that I’m the exact opposite to this?

Stereotypes and hyperbole are common in art. As they are in everyday life, esp. if you are trying to humor things. Now, there is that word again: humor!

duhvoodooman, your politically correct attitude starts to worry me. Following your suggestions, movies like “The Devil’s Advocate” should be illegal. In that case, I suggest we censor every movie featuring a geek computer programmer. ude:
[/off topic]

[on topic]
It’s almost certain someone messed things up royally with this guitar. I don’t believe it is some middle man (e.g. the German dealer). Fender has exhibited similar behavior in the past.

Let me remind you about the Highway series. When they first came out, they were described as a “limited” series, they had 2 piece bodies and much attention to detail. Less than a year later, Highways had 4-5 piece bodies and quality comparable to the average Mexican Fender of the time.

Bottom line: I wouldn’t trust them. YMMV and probably will.
[/on topic]

[Jimi75]

Okay folks,

Here is my experience after working several years for Fender.

To my understanding Abigail is a custom wirer, she did some custom shop sets personally and indeed there was a very limited and expensive series that had HER pick ups with her initials and the CS sticker, but definitely this was not in the Classic series.

What Fender did was that they did a serial production and they took Abigail's wired pick up as a model after which specification they built the new pick up.

Quationing Fenders business strategies and behaviour is sheer unfair. Fender is not interested in telling lies and push customers away. They just built great guitars and they never pretend - means that when you read the specifications on a Fender guitar and you buy it it is exactly like that. Everything else and any further error is an error of the dealer and not Fender itself.

[Lev]

Okay folks,

Here is my experience after working several years for Fender.

To my understanding Abigail is a custom wirer, she did some custom shop sets personally and indeed there was a very limited and expensive series that had HER pick ups with her initials and the CS sticker, but definitely this was not in the Classic series.

What Fender did was that they did a serial production and they took Abigail's wired pick up as a model after which specification they built the new pick up.

Quationing Fenders business strategies and behaviour is sheer unfair. Fender is not interested in telling lies and push customers away. They just built great guitars and they never pretend - means that when you read the specifications on a Fender guitar and you buy it it is exactly like that. Everything else and any further error is an error of the dealer and not Fender itself.

Jimi, you are totally correct but I think the confusion comes from the fact that the first run of CP60's guitars did indeed have signed pickups installed. That's why I think that with the volume of sales of these guitars Fender couldn't continue to supply actual Abigail signed/wired pickups. Hence they now have the same specification pickup (we think) but without the signed and dated 'A.B.'

[Jimi75]

Jimi, you are totally correct but I think the confusion comes from the fact that the first run of CP60's guitars did indeed have signed pickups installed. That's why I think that with the volume of sales of these guitars Fender couldn't continue to supply actual Abigail signed/wired pickups. Hence they now have the same specification pickup (we think) but without the signed and dated 'A.B.'

Hello Lev, it is indeed the same specification.
As I am not 100% sure about the how the first run of the Classic Player Strat was equipped, I can not confirm this. I asked an old colleague of mine over at Fender and he doubts , too that Abigail's sigs were installed.

Generally, I do not care much about which name is on a product, I let my ears decide and for sure the Fender pick ups are brilliant with or without Abigails initials.

[duhvoodooman***]

[off topic]
duhvoodooman let me ask you: are you a lawyer? And if so, do you have anything to do with stereotypes as those depicted in movies and novels?

I’m a computer programmer. The most common stereotype about programmers and IT people in general, is that they are pencil-neck geeks with no social life whatsoever. Would you be surprised to find out that I’m the exact opposite to this?

Stereotypes and hyperbole are common in art. As they are in everyday life, esp. if you are trying to humor things. Now, there is that word again: humor!

duhvoodooman, your politically correct attitude starts to worry me. Following your suggestions, movies like “The Devil’s Advocate” should be illegal. In that case, I suggest we censor every movie featuring a geek computer programmer. ude:
[/off topic]

Last comment on this, and then we should probably stop

No, I'm not a lawyer, have nothing to do with the legal profession, and have no family members or close friends who are lawyers. Also, anyone who knows me well will tell you that the lack of a sense of humor is not one of my (many) faults.

Your comments re: lawyers, though intended humorously, were (IMO) quite pointed and potentially hurtful to a couple of our members who are lawyers. Robert's forum guidelines contain the following statement:

"Any communication that is likely to be taken as an attempt to humiliate, embarrass, harass, threaten or belittle another member is considered a violation of these guidelines."

While I certainly don't believe that was your intent, note that the above statement says nothing about intent, but rather how the communication "is likely to be taken". And it seemed to me that a lawyer might take those comments rather badly. Since I take my forum moderator responsibilities here seriously, I felt it was appropriate to comment on this.

Lastly, I think extrapolating that a request to be sensitive to the feelings of other forums members constitutes tacit support for movie censorship is, well....a wee bit of a stretch, logically speaking.

DVM over and out.

** CLICK **

[sunvalleylaw]

DVM, thanks for sticking up for me. I appreciate it. I have stayed out of this because I am a member of the "suspect class". Hey, guys, we are all friends here and I am not offended. Abraxas, generally speaking, I am not deeply offended by lawyer jokes. Too many of them out there to be offended. But I am not very much amused most of the time either. Again, just heard too many of them, and the humor is often mean spirited, which is not my favorite type of humor. Don't get me wrong, there are funny lawyer jokes and I can take a joke. Just most aren't that witty.

I think there are a lot of misconceptions about the role of a lawyer in United States society, and if someone really believes that all lawyers are ruining the world, that would bother me. (EDIT: I re-read the comment, It really says "Yeah, that happens when you let lawyers run the World.") I also understand why the jokes happen, and sympathise with those that feel they have been abused by lawyers in some way. I didn't really take the comment we are talking about like that, but I didn't necessarily care for the comment either, partly because the comment helps to perpetuate a mis-statement. I was not going to comment, but because DVM has so valiantly stuck to his guns, I thought it unfair to leave him twisting out there without comment. Not a big deal, and certainly not worth any censorship, but I do appreciate DVM's support. I don't think anyone intended offense, and I do not feel offended. Might be nice to move on though.


As to the topic at hand, I do not know enough about the facts to comment and would defer to people that know more like Jimi75, or direct contact with Fender.

[elavd]

BACK TO THE TOPIC GUYS!!!



Let me put it this way to you...

Even if the pickups on my guitar have the same specs with the 'A.Y'-ones, even if they sound exactly as them or even better, you have to admit that:

The fact that Fender advertises the CP60 models as 'equipped with Custom 69 pickups" is MISLEADING.

For example, how would you feel if you discovered by chance that one device of your laptop was not exactly the one that you thought when you bought it.
Even if it worked perfectly, I think that you would have the feeling of being cheated...

Just simple as that...

[stingx]

Instead of making a thread here, perhaps it would have been better to directly deal with email to Fender. You could have even pursued dedicated Fender forums that have Fender employees that would answer this question. Chris Greene's Fender Forum and thefenderforum.com are two such sites.

This thread's sole purpose seems to be for bashing lawyers and Fender, in general. Personally, I view Fender no differently than any other company. I've had products I've liked and disliked. I don't go on forums *****ing about these products. I've dealt with the vendor or manufacturer in those instances and that's how I got satisfaction.

[elavd]

Instead of making a thread here, perhaps it would have been better to directly deal with email to Fender. You could have even pursued dedicated Fender forums that have Fender employees that would answer this question. Chris Greene's Fender Forum and thefenderforum.com are two such sites.

This thread's sole purpose seems to be for bashing lawyers and Fender, in general. Personally, I view Fender no differently than any other company. I've had products I've liked and disliked. I don't go on forums *****ing about these products. I've dealt with the vendor or manufacturer in those instances and that's how I got satisfaction.

According to that opinion, we shouldn't talk about anything concering guitars here...


OK guys. I got it!!!

Sorry for taking your precious time, by making you read irrelevant threads... It won't happen again....

Lets talk about cars!!


PS: By the way, if you read closely to my threads, you'd see that I have ALREADY emailed Fender