Pickin' & a Strummin'

[tot_Ou_tard]

Just Strum sez that we should move the discussion of acoutic guitars out from the Guitar Gal welcome thread over to the acoustic section where it belongs.

& right he be, so here goes.

What body styles & tonewoods are thought to be good for fingerpicking, flatpicking, and strumming?

Newbies want to know.

[Tone2TheBone]

I don't know much about acoustics but I have 2 of them. I like the tone of traditional dreadnoughts...mahogany back, neck and sides with a crispy sheet of Sitka Spruce on top. The Spruce top will only get better with age that's why most older acoustics sound reallllly good and the material compliments the warm deep tone of mahogany. When I say traditional dreadnought I mean the body styles and thickness of guitars like Martins and some Gibsons. Thinner bodies aren't as loud and thick sounding but are sometimes made larger in size to compensate. Picking and strumming on materials such as this is a pleasant experience. Some people prefer a much darker presentation though and that's why some material on the tops are made out of wood like cedar.

[just strum]

Many of the acoustic connoisseurs will swear by solid acoustics and some even will turn their noses up at something that has a laminated back and sides.

I've owned a solid (WD32SW) and it was certainly a nice guitar for the money, but the Jumbo (J28SDL) has been my favorite acoustic to date. Solid top and laminated side and back. It has a much more booming sound.

At the music store I've tried various dreadnoughts and jumbos and my preference is the jumbos no matter who is the manufacturer. It's not that the others didn't sound good, some even great, but the jumbo is just incredible to my ears.

[just strum]

Just Strum sez that we should move the discussion of acoutic guitars out from the Guitar Gal welcome thread over to the acoustic section where it belongs.

& right he be, so here goes.

What body styles & tonewoods are thought to be good for fingerpicking, flatpicking, and strumming?

Newbies want to know.

Geez, you make it sound like I am being bossy and I haven't been a member for a week.

I probably be stoned and forced to become a drummer.

[sunvalleylaw]

I think acoustics require going and playing them to pick the one you want, and I mean the specific unit. I think that is true regardless of price level. I am influenced by my local shop here, and by Neil Young recordings, esp. from plus or minus 1970. So, I am looking for a really strong throbby low end and clear highs. The local shop features Martins, Larivees, Alvarez, and a few others. Another shop around here features Seagulls and Ibanez. The tone I keep coming back to seems to be a rosewood back and side and spruce top dreadnought, but so much else goes into it that it depends and you have to go play 'em. In the Martin line, and guitars modeled after martins, I prefer the Rosewood back and side guitars to the Mahogany back and side guitars that seem to have more mid range. Also, though I really like the feel and build of the Seagulls, I have not found one that has the sound I want. There is a really nice larivee I keep coming back to in the store that has a sound I like, and played a Yamaha acoustic jumbo I liked the sound of. I have played a nice Guild in another store that i like, and it is mahogany. I would like to try the Rosewood guilds (D-55 I think) to compare. These are now being built in the Tacoma factory under Fender ownership. So in preference if money was no issue, I would go Martin HD-28 (I don't need or want the visual frills of the more expensive ones), followed by one of the Guilds, and then the Larivee. This thread that was started by Jim Pfeiffer after a fellow fretter was showing off some beautiful pics of his Martin and has some good thoughts:

http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php?t=1747

Might be nice to renew those thoughts and discussion here.

I am no expert, and really just a beginning player. There are probably some really good value guitars out there I am unaware of and if anyone has ideas of guitars to try to get the sound I am describing, please let me know. I do think though, I have to play an acoustic before buying. I am more of a strummer who tries to add flourishes like hammer ons and pull offs, and right hand picking stuff, can finger pick just a little. Doesn't seem to change my taste in acoustic guitars though.

[t_ross33]

My first guitar of the six string variety was my Dad's Yamaha. I really love the tone of this guitar, very deep and throaty without being boomy or bass-y (if you can picture it). It is, however, a bit of a bear to play. It isn't a high end guitar by any stretch, and it has hundreds and hundreds of hours being bashed around in bars and dancehalls. The neck is pretty chunky, the action high, wonky intonation and the frets probably need to be replaced. But she has a special place in my heart.

Attachment 1236

Since I've been playing live more, I purchased my Washburn D10(etc). It plays nice and easy, great action, the neck feels almost "electric". Not nearly as resonant as my Yamaha, but it sounds fantastic amplified. The onboard tuner and EQ are a big plus as well.

Attachment 1237

I'm not much of a fingerpicker, I just strum away.

Trev

[sunvalleylaw]

This thread inspired me to go goof off for a few at the local guitar store and try the guitars I had been looking at. (Not sure why, can't afford them now, but it is fun). I also realized that the guitars I keep coming back to are traditionally thought of as fingerstyle bluegrass guitars. I don't play bluegrass but I like the sound. I tried two Larrivees, a D-03R, and D-03RE, a Martin D-16RGT (rosewood gloss top), and a Martin HD-28. The Martins were both very nice, but the trip was useful in that I could decide that for my purposes, I don't need to spend the $1300-1500 difference between the HD-28 and the others. It is super nice, but unless I find myself awash in disposable income that should not be doing something else, the difference is not worth it to me. In fact, of the other three, the straight D-03R, the cheapest of all of them, was the best sounding to my ear acoustically. and the neck just feels right to me. The other Larivee had a pickup with an equalizer in it, but the low E just was not as good, and the look of the top was not as good. Whiter in tone, and the grain was narrower. Anyhoo, that is what I found today. Here is a link to a pic of the Larrivee I like (Canadian made, in Vancouver, B.C.)

http://guitaradoptions.com/store/pro...cat=257&page=1

This one is awful nice too, and I love the headstock, but $700 more!
http://guitaradoptions.com/store/pro...cat=363&page=1

Not carried by the local store. A Boise store said they could sell one for 500 less than the above price, but no point in even pursuing it before I am ready. Like I said in other posts, gotta save a long time for one of these. 'Til then, just gonna make my old Joshua work.

[just strum]

Steve,

Both of those guitars sound interesting, but just how much more are you really getting for an additional $700? I guess you would have to determine if the additional $700 has that much more to offer (certainly would have to be more than just the headstock).

One thing you have to do and you may already know this - take someone to the store with you and make sure they can play guitar. You want them to play it as you stand different distances from the guitar. See if that sound you heard while playing is still there and if it sounds even better GREAT!!! If it doesn't, move on to the next guitar.

I don't know a lot about the price ranges of other guitars so what I like to do is go to the store and not look at the price, just play and when I'm done I select the one that sounds the best. It's often not the most expensive or the Martin.

Another thing to keep in mind, especially with all solid, don't focus in on a certain guitar because you heard someone else's. If it's a solid, they tend to age nicely and produce an improved sound over time. The other thing is the bracing, same guitar, but different bracing.

Bottom line, play them all and pick the one YOU like. If it ends up being too expensive you can either wait to save up more $$$, or pick the second best one.

One thing I love to do is go into a music store when they first open up on a weekday and just spend a couple of hours playing the guitars. No one is there, you aren't competing with other guitar sounds, it's the best time to go if you are ready to buy. When the store is full of customers, there is no reason for them to deal.

[just strum]

This thread that was started after a fellow fretter was showing off some beautiful pics of his Martin has some good thoughts:

http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php?t=1747

Good info. I don't know much about the different woods uses in guitar construction, but it certainly helps to know that stuff when you are seeking a specific sound from a guitar.

[tot_Ou_tard]

Geez, you make it sound like I am being bossy and I haven't been a member for a week.

I probably be stoned and forced to become a drummer.

Who'd know the difference whether you were stoned or not?

I wasn't meaning to imply that you were bossy.

Could you explain the difference in tonal terms between a jumbo & a dreadnaught?

Steve, what makes a guitar a fingerstyle bluegrass guitar?

[just strum]

Who'd know the difference whether you were stoned or not? true, they've never picked up on it at work.

I wasn't meaning to imply that you were bossy. I know, I was just busting skittles with you. I actually thought it appeared bossy when I wrote it and I was concerned a senior member or two would take offense. Edit: I just noticed you are a senior member and I'm just a member. Boy if I had a dollar for every time that I've been called that:


Could you explain the difference in tonal terms between a jumbo & a dreadnought?
I probably lack the technical terminology needed to explain, but in my words. It's a dreadnought, but boomier (sp). I think the jumbo has better sustain, but that just might be the two I am comparing and not a characteristic of the jumbo. They sound louder and many times I like to strum hard and reacts real well to that type of playing. It also reacts well to soft strumming and playing lead notes. They are bigger and some people don't care for that as it can be uncomfortable if you are small (not recommended for a young child). I'm only 5'10" and I have no problem with comfort. When I take it to a friends, I jokingly refer to it as my upright.

I attached a link to a site that might be informative for us (I am still a beginner and try to absorb any valuable information I can.

http://emedia.leeward.hawaii.edu/Fra...oustic_gtr.htm

[sunvalleylaw]

Could you explain the difference in tonal terms between a jumbo & a dreadnaught?

Steve, what makes a guitar a fingerstyle bluegrass guitar?

Hey tot, From Jim Pfeiffer in the tonewood thread: "Rosewood is a slightly more dense wood than Mahogany. Guitars with Rosewood backs and sides tend to have a deeper, bigger tone overall. As compared to other woods there tends to be lower lows and higher highs, in other words, more of a full range. This is partly why alot of solo guitarists like Rosewood guitars. They sound bigger in general. A Martin D28 is a great example of this kind of sound."

From Wiki, discussing the innovations made by C.F. Martin guitar co. :

The second innovation was the dreadnought guitar. [1] Originally devised in 1916 as a collaboration between Martin and a prominent retailer, the Oliver Ditson Co., the dreadnought body style was larger and deeper than most guitars. In 1906, the Royal Navy had shocked the world by launching a battleship that was considerably larger than any in service. From the idea that a ship that big would have to fear nothing, it was christened HMS Dreadnought. Martin recognized a perfect marketing tie-in when they saw one, and borrowed the name for their new, large guitar. The greater volume and louder bass produced by this expansion in size was intended to make the guitar more useful as an accompaniment instrument for singers working with the limited sound equipment of the day.

From me: today, it seems bluegrass finger players and pickers like the dreadnoughts because of the volume they can produce, and because of the pronounced low and highs mentioned by Jim, since a lot of the picking is done on the low and high strings. So that is my understanding of what makes a bluegrass fingerstyle guitar. There are a lot of bluegrass players and regular folk fests around here, and they seem to prefer those dreadnoughts, and then it seems to depend on preference for the tonewook sounds.

I am not a bluegrass player per se. I, on the other hand, I got interested by paying attention to what Neil Young was doing on solo presentations of his "Harvest" album stuff, like "Old Man" and "Heart of Gold", where he hits the low string in whatever chord is involved, then does some flatpicking with hammer-ons and pull-offs on the higher strings involved in the chord. Here is a link to the vid that really got me interested:


so now I am going for that kind of sound without buying a $10k Martin.

Hope that helps to answer the question.

Steve

[tot_Ou_tard]

Edit: I just noticed you are a senior member and I'm just a member.

Yes, but my Senior status (such as it is) comes from sheer wackitude rather than any profound guitar knowledge. You too can become a Senior Member by making a lot of posts. For example, part of my post count includes a bit or two about a Goth Elph...

Thanks for the good info on jumbos!

[just strum]

Steve,

I agree with you about trying out acoustics first hand and going home with the one you find the most appealing (wallet permitting). Two exact same models could sound different to your ears. The cost of the guitar doesn't make the sound better and you will find guitars of better sound costing hundreds of dollars less than the more expensive model sitting right next to it.

If you really get into acoustics, you have to have more than one, or two. Unlike an electric, you can't lean over and adjust a knob or two on the amp to achieve a different sound (I'm referring to pure acoustics, not electric/acoustic).

I'm not familiar with the models you mentioned, but I'm obviously aware of the manufacturers. Like electric, you need to get a good guitar or you will grow discouraged and certainly won't enjoy the journey.

In general, what would you consider your level to be as it pertains to your guitar playing. Don't be over critical, but how would you rate yourself? How long have you been playing?

I am attempting to get some of the Washburn members to drop in so we can get this section a little more active and informative. So, if you guys stumble upon this post, register, introduce yourself in the "The Fret Players" and then get to some posting!!!

[sunvalleylaw]

I have owned my acoustic for several years and plunked away occasionally, but have been regularly playing guitar and taking lessons for a year and a few months. So I put myself at a beginner+. Since Spudman is over this weekend, he helped me figure out the fret issues I have been having on my current acoustic and what the fix will be. I don't think I will be buying a new acoustic any time soon. But, shopping and increasing knowledge is fun, and will be useful when I am ready. :-)