squire quality long gone

[BARNSTORMER]

What ever happened to the days when Squires were actually great bargans and very good quality . These made in korea , indonesia and china Squires are nothing but a pale reflection of their former products . Crap hardware and electromics and fit and finish that would make you believe they were assembled at a school for the blind . Now I know that some still find value in them and that they make enjoy modding them to personal specs and that is fine , my question is why would fender allow the reputation of Squire fall so low , when they were made in Japan they were great guitars and amazing bang for the buck , I think Fender needs to wake up before the brand is reduced to the level of the asian made Epi's .. pretty sad but i guess thats what happens when accountants are more important than the people buying the product .

[Brian Krashpad]

I don't have any non-MIJ Squiers currently, but the reports I've been seeing as to the mid-to-upper priced Squiers currently is that they are good bang-for-buck, although you may have to sort through a few to find one without minor mass-production problems such as paint cosmetics or sharp fret ends. I know there are tons of people with Squier 51's who totally disagree with your above statement, and those were some of the cheapest Squiers ever; another example of a recent Squier getting solid reviews is the Tele Custom II (the dual P-90 model)-- a friend of mine liked his so much he bought two of them, one in butterscotch and one in black, and gigs them.

Same goes for the "Asian-made Epi's." I had a MIK Epi G400 SG that wasn't bad at all, and according to some reports I've seen the new MIC G400's are actually even better. Another example is the Asian-made Epi '56 Goldtop LP (the P-90 model), which I have seen universally glowing reports on.

[Spudman***]

I beg to differ with you on this.

True the Japanese guitars were really good. Unfortunately they were too good and the factory started charging more to make them too. Folks stopped buying the American guitars in favor of the Japanese so Fender felt the income loss. All that lead to the cessation in Japan so they started using factories in Korea (ie. Samick). Once again the same thing happened and then Vester took over in Korea. The Vester guitars are not quite as good.

The thing for companies is to make cheap, sell high. This is how they can continue to do business by making profit. I don't begrudge them at all for that. So in order to do that the factories were once again moved.

Now to the current day - China and Indonesia
Chinese Standard models actually are pretty good. Yes the electronics aren't high end but at least you get alnico pickups and solid wood bodies. Heck the Cherrybursts are beautiful finished 3 piece alder bodies that easily compare to USA bodies. Even the Indonesian guitars are a great base to add improvements to. Just ask Robert. The new Modified Vintage models are really good once again. These will end up being sought after guitars in 10 years. (you heard it here first)

Just like almost everything there are some good and some bad. The bad in this case can be found in the other models that are produced more cheaply such as the Affinity and Squier II guitars. Yet the necks on many of them are great. Costs have been cut in other areas to bring affordable functional guitars to the masses on these models. Still with a couple of changes a real gem can emerge.

Don't think that they are all bad if they say Squier. If you are married then look at it like this: how many women did you go through to find a really good one? Just because one was bad didn't mean they were all bad did it? Guitars=Women. Same thing.

Squier Standard Cherryburst made in China

[t_ross33]

I believe it has more to do with positioning the company and finding a niche in a very product-heavy market (I've never seen so many guitars, good quality guitars, offered for so "cheap"), rather than a "increase the profit margin by cutting corners" scenario. Squier by and large offers entry level products, with the hope that once you buy into the look and feel of a particular model, you will want to upgrade to the "real deal" as your skills and needs progress. Getting guitars into the hands of newbies and kids virtually guarantees increased sales long term (remember those Joe Camel cigarette ads supposedly aimed at kids? - same strategy). Hook 'em early and have a customer for life.

There are still some diamonds in the rough. My "Crafted in India" VM Tele has as good fit, finish and hardware as the MIM Fender I A/B'd it with. Is it a Fender 52RI Telcaster? - of course not. But it's a great little Tele IMHO and suits me just fine (while at a price point where I won't mind doing all the fun little upgrades - wouldn't want to mess with a guitar costing 5 or 6 times as much).

I think one can find better guitars for less money than at any time since Les slapped some copper coils on a 2x4 ude:

Trev

[ted s]

Very nice Spud,bone stock ?

[duhvoodooman***]

Another example is the Asian-made Epi '56 Goldtop LP (the P-90 model), which I have seen universally glowing reports on.

: : : Love my Epi '56 Goldtop. The only feature that doesn't impress me is the tuners, but that's a minor point. The tone and playability SLAYS!!

[BARNSTORMER]

Great points guys , and please dont get me wrong , I can see that the folks round here are quite capable of fine tuning and modding a inexpensive guitar to amazing levels . But what i find is that you have to go through a bunch of guitars in order to find a good one in terms of the things you would expect to get with a basic guitar, fit ,finish ,playability etc . there was a time when you could pull a squire or epiphone off the rack and chances were that it was a solid piece of work , no excuses , now its hit and miss .. and why shouldn't a 56 epi gold top be a great guitar at the price it sells for . Agile , Dillon and others make guitars which in my opinion are consistently well built for less money .. why cant Fender/Squire Gibson/Epiphone do the same .I just think that as consumers we dont squalk enough and buy them expecting to have to perfect the guitar ourselves . But once again great points and thanks for sharing them .

[Spudman***]

Very nice Spud,bone stock ?

Stock except the scratches on the back are custom.

[marnold***]

Actually, if you go back about 20-25 years, even the worst Squiers being produced today are significantly better than the ones back then. This is due, in no small part, to the improvement of techniques overseas. I'm not going to say that my '51 is the best guitar ever, but I will say that it's by far and away the best $99 guitar I've ever played and would put it against guitars costing significantly more. My only gripe with it is the neck pickup which has since been swapped out.

You are right, though, in that where the Squiers will fall down usually is in the QC department. That's not just true of Squiers, though, that's true of about any low-end guitar. There's just not enough of a margin on these guitars for anyone to give a rats. Thankfully, my '51 required no major surgery other than a typical setup and adjusting the height of some of the nut slots.

[BARNSTORMER]

MARNOLD

Actually, if you go back about 20-25 years, even the worst Squiers being produced today are significantly better than the ones back then. This is due, in no small part, to the improvement of techniques overseas.

Sorry Marnold , cant agree there.. Squires from the 83-86 era were some of the best Fenders built period , and have become quite sought after .. and thats the basis of my argument with the whole recent quality thing .. there is no comparison with a jv squire from the early made in japan days and the recent made all over asia stuff , The very best stuff is still made in J apan be it Fender or Epiphone and the question has to be asked why?

[SuperSwede]

I´ve played on several japan made Squires, and while they are really good guitars I think they are a little over hyped. The BEST strat that I´ve played is actually the japan made Fender ´57 stratocaster replica.
These days most low cost guitars have pretty high standard, and I am really impressed with the Squier vintage modified series.

[Spudman***]

MARNOLD

Sorry Marnold , cant agree there.. Squires from the 83-86 era were some of the best Fenders built period , and have become quite sought after .. and thats the basis of my argument with the whole recent quality thing .. there is no comparison with a jv squire from the early made in japan days and the recent made all over asia stuff , The very best stuff is still made in J apan be it Fender or Epiphone and the question has to be asked why?

The answer is simple: The Japanese JV series were made with all American parts.

The reality is that it isn't cost effective or market effective to produce the Squier line in Japan.

Still many of the Samick and Cort Korean built Squiers are very good in quality even though it was the mid/late 90's that they were produced.

So it's unfortunate now for us buyers that to get that kind of quality from early in Squier's history you have to either look hard for a used one or buy a Japanese Fender or an American Fender. The fortunate thing is that we do have a choice. If you like that old Squier JV quality then a Japanese built Fender would be the way to go...just find somebody to bring you one back because the shipping costs are pretty high otherwise. It would be way easier than to find someone willing to sell you their JV Squier.

[pes_laul]

The person who sold my squire said it was made in 86 but im not really sure if it was and for 75 dollars that guitar is really nice sure it aint as good as a 4000 dollar les paul but it gets the job done. Though the new ones aren't as great as the older ones their good for beginners who are not sure if their gonna stick with it. For example your kid wants to play guitar and you buy him the most expensive guitar-what if it's just a passing phase?

[Brian Krashpad]

Actually, if you go back about 20-25 years, even the worst Squiers being produced today are significantly better than the ones back then.

No, that's not right either.

The 80's MIJ Squiers (I owned an 80's MIJ Squier Tele and still own an MIJ Squier P-Bass) were top notch, and better than production run Squiers from all over Asia today.

That being said, the MIJ Squiers were a historical anomaly, kind of like the Fender DeArmond line, both of which were killed off because they were a little too nice for their own good.

But that's not to say today's Squiers suck. They beat the pants off the budget guitars of the 60's/70's like the crap I had to learn on.

[pie_man_25]

I'm not an expert on the subject, But I do have one of the early nineties "squier series" fenders they made in mexico, which is in the shop at the moment for truss rod and intonation check, its about thirteen years old and the guy said he had never seen a mexican fender this old in such great shape, and I can't stand most of the new squiers, which goes to show in my opinion, that they aren't made the way they used to. But at the same time, I know guys who are perfectly fine with their squiers and like to mod them, I would like to mod one as well, plus, their really made for beginners, they aren't made to satisfy professionals here.

edit: I don't care for new fenders either, mostly because the finish on the neck is way too thick and my hands almost stick to them, and the older ones aare wornout

[just strum]

If someone was looking to buy an inexpensive Strat Squier (me) I don't know if this thread would help someone decide which one is the best to buy, but there are some interesting points being made, now to just sort through them.

[LowEndWonder]

The Indian made Squires are virtually flawless!
Even the Indonesian models have stepped up. Indonesian made products have improved across the board. Ibanez sells $650.00 Bassses and guitars made in Indo.
Ocean Basses $750.00 model, made in Indo.
Peavey BXP series basses, Made in Indo!
Five years ago Indonesia made total garbage! Chinese stuff was crap, and even Korean axes were hit-or-miss. Now Chinese products are acceptable {depending on brand}, SX for example is a great product for the money. Indonesian products are equal and even at times surpass Korean products. India through it's hat in the ring and makes a product almost on par to the Japanese. Japan, well, they're still the best copiers in the world! Did you ever go on Fenders Japan website?
They have Precision and Jazz Basses that look like they came straight out of the 50's, 60's and 70's. Authentic reproductions, the colors, matching headstocks and hardware are as vintage as you can get. I saw them and could'nt believe my eyes!
A friend of mine had one shipped the bass cost $750.00 with shipping and excise tax it came to $1000.00. That bass was better than any of his American Fenders.
Japan also makes a brand Tokai, which specializes in Les Pauls mainly and guess what, they ain't cheap! $900.00 to $2000.00 depending on model.
Another friend who happens to be an engineer owns about 5 Tokai's and 20 Gibsons.
He has said the Tokai is just as good as his $3000 and $4000 Gibbys.
It seems that Fender, Ibanez, Peavey and a few other companies found the right factories to do their work now. Thats the reason for the rise in quality in their instruments.

[stingx]

Matsumoku was the main reason why 80s Japanese guitars kicked ***. Everything made in that plant was made to very anal specs. The best Epiphones came out of that plant. Same for Arias, Ibanez, etc. Too bad they had to fold.

[monradon]

Hi guys have not been here for awhile been having some health problems.
Squiers are still a good buy for the price. I buy them then complete tear apart and check everything pots and caps then set them up right. Thing is I have ran into some american ones that were setup no better and needed the same work. Of course I am making players for people not for investment.