dedicated slide

[Steve206]

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Southwest Florida
Posts: 23
My Photos: (1)

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Hey folks,,

Say you had an old knockoff fender, that you got for nothing and wanted to delve into the elcectric slide arena?

It is one of those Beer Logo, indonesian made, single humbucker, one volume knob, fenders.

I have already sanded all the advertising off of the body and repainted it.

Where do I start?

Should I think about raising the action? New nut? Heavier guage strings? Flat wounds? It does have the cheap fender trem bridge, but I have screwed it tight, as I was going to give it to one of the sons and figured if I left it loose, he would end up taking it apart.

Guitar is back in my hands and I am looking for a little, low rent, project.

Any input is appreciated,,,

Thanks ahead,,

Steve

[notalentbum]

There is a little trick thing I have seen that slips ( slides?) over your nut to raise the action. I found one on an old cowboy guitar I bought. It may be the simplest way to raise the action without monkeying with anything else. It looks like a piece of u channel aluminum, with grooves cut into the outside. It can't hurt and it probably costs about $3- should cost a quarter.

(insert your own nut joke here).
NTB

[wingsdad]

There is a little trick thing I have seen that slips ( slides?) over your nut to raise the action. I found one on an old cowboy guitar I bought. It may be the simplest way to raise the action without monkeying with anything else. It looks like a piece of u channel aluminum, with grooves cut into the outside. It can't hurt and it probably costs about $3- should cost a quarter.

Yep...one of these...but since it's extends your nut, it costs a pair of $3 bills:
Nut Extension

[Bucks Owin]

Cool tip, thanks!

I have a Squire 51 that is to be my dedicated slide axe....

Dennis

[Kazz]

look out when Shiner sees this the nut jokes will fly

[wingsdad]

I have one and I've only used it to occasionally set up a guitar temporarily for slide, because I don't play enough slide to have that good, delicate touch it takes to slide with low (enough to fret with other fingers) action. It's handy that way.

But because it's metal, it puts its own 'edge' on your tone, so you need to back off on the tone pot(s), amp treble to compensate. Also, glass or ceramic slides rather than metal...unless, of course, it works for your taste in sound.

In short, ahem, cough, cough...if you've invested in graphite, tusq or bone to improve your nuts, you lose whatever natural warmth those substances gained.

[Steve206]

Thanks folks,,

Does anyone have any recommendations on action? Or should I just take it and tune it and slide with it?

Steve

[warren0728]

Or should I just take it and tune it and slide with it?

yep.... :

ww

[sumitomo]

Yea just slide with it I can hear Tell mama by spooky tooth now! Sumi

[sumitomo]

Sorry I meant Savoy Brown.

[Bucks Owin]

Thanks folks,,

Does anyone have any recommendations on action? Or should I just take it and tune it and slide with it?

Steve

As was said before, you'll need an awful light touch with your slide to play on a guitar with "normal" string height. In the heat of battle you'll be doing some "clunking and bumping"......
Some slide players like to change their tuning and/or string gauge too on a "slide only" axe......

FWIW,

Dennis

[warren0728]

As was said before, you'll need an awful light touch with your slide to play on a guitar with "normal" string height. In the heat of battle you'll be doing some "clunking and bumping"......
Some slide players like to change their tuning and/or string gauge too on a "slide only" axe......

FWIW,

Dennis

yep....heavier gauge strings would be a good first step...also try a lighter glass slide instead of a heavier brass or ceramic one...

ww

[mrmudcat]

Ok first block off the trem using a soft wood block between block and wall of the cavity.You can also use 5 springs and the tension adjustment screws to get it locked down good(or do both) but you will have to decide on string gauge size first and do the adjusting with those strings! On string gauge start out with some 12's or 13's. String height should be set as high as you can with what strings you got ,plain and simple .Now im sure this will be open for much debate but im going to put it out there as I feel I qualify. I play a lil swamp muzic from time to time. There is in my opinion no set action height for slide. Put on some thick strings.(I like all nickel) Set the action high depending ultimately on your touch,and technique.If this is a full time slide put on a good high bone nut,tusq,G.T. replacement ,make your own slots with bone (or your luthier) and set the action HIGH

[Steve206]

Thanks folks,,

Yeah, I just cleaned it up and put new strings on. Dad, nickel wound 11 - 49, because that is what I have in the guitar cupboad.

Going on the cheap, I decided to leave the nut alone and then found out that I did not have the proper sized allen key for the height adjustment screws on the tailpiece. I think that they are allen screws? Anyway, I am sure that I will find that I cannot buy just the size I need. Get roped into another corner, where I end up with an eight pak, full of seven wrenches that I don't need.

I was able to screw down the bridge, by going into the back and tightening the screws that anchored the spring plate, combination muffler bearing thingie. The bridge is hard to the guitar.

Now it is off, to one of the websites, that spell out set up and intonation on fender guitars. Like I said, this thing is an Indo made, piece of beer advertising, and I am sure that it needs more than my help. Sorry Leo..

If anyone has any more insights or tips, or has one of those small allen keys laying around, I would greatly appreciate hearing from you.

I like the idea of a purpose made nut for slide, but again, I am without proper tools and files and the notion of getting one made, is still a ways down the road.

I must be the only guy out here who does not like to dampen the string behind the slide. And that is because, I find it very hard to do,,,,,

I thought that this thread was goin to die a quiet death, until a couple of swampers came along,,,

Thanks,

Steve

[mrmudcat]

Steve Ive got all kinds of allen wrenches not sure what size ya need ?? Could send a bunch close to fender mexican,and american sizes and you could just send me back what ya dont need.Someone with a squier might help ya out,I cant.

[mrmudcat]

Learn to dampen behind the slide ,it really is a must technique in my opinion. Steve here is some interesting reading sorry for the copy paste im so lazy tonight

Before You Start

1. Your Slide.
There are two main types of slide -- glass and metal. Glass gives you a warmer tone than metal and is lighter, however it can break if it is dropped. Metal has a brighter tone than glass and is heavier, but is practically indestructible. Keep in mind that there are different types of metals used for slides and each type will give a different tone. As well, the thickness of the sides of the slide affects your tone -- thicker sides give you a bigger tone and vice versa. There are also various lengths of slides and different diameters for the inside. Yes, there are many variables but slides aren't very expensive (generally they range from about $5-$25) and you should just experiment with different kinds until you find what you like. Also don't rule out different materials like ceramic, plastic, or bone -- I just have only used glass and metal and don't want to write about something I don't know much about (if anyone cares I'm currently using a medium length Dunlop glass slide with thick sides).I use glass only on electric fo-sho.

2. Your Guitar.
Got a guitar with crappy intonation and strings a mile off the fretboard? Or a few bum frets? No problem! This guitar will work fine for slide because you don't really use the fretboard for slide (unless of you'r fretting notes behind the slide -- more on that later). In fact a great use for a guitar that is hard to play normally is to make it a designated slide guitar. Just watch out for crappy tuners if you're gonna be using a bunch of different tunings. This works fine if you just want to dabble in slide but if you're gonna be playing it seriously you should get a good guitar to set up just for slide.

3. Your Set-Up.
You will have a much easier time playing slide if your guitar is set up properly. Because you don't want your slide to touch the frets you want heavy strings (12s or 13s) and high action. However if your gonna fret notes behind the slide (more on that later) you don't want too high action and heavy strings make it hard to play normally. I play a Fender Telecaster with '10s and medium high action. If I had another guitar I'd probably put on heavier strings and raise the action a bit. However I don't have too much trouble on what I have as long as I don't tune down (i.e. put it in open G or D or a tuning where some of the strings have their pitch lowered) because that will give me less to support the slide.

4. Tuning.
Slide can be played in just about any tuning. Open D (low-to-high D, A, D, F#, A, D); G (D, G, B, G, B, D); A (open G up a whole step) and E (open D up a whole step) are common but you can even play in standard. Personally I recommend using open E which has been used by such legends as Sonny Landreth and Duane Allman, but it is important to know a variety of tunings and when to use them. Mostly open E for me of course.

5. Picking.
You can use a pick for slide but I'd recommend trying fingerpicking either with your bare fingers or using fingerpicks. Not only does this give you more tonal options but it also allows you to mute with your fingers (more on that later). Bare fingers.

6. Tone.
I don't want to talk about this too much because I know that tone is subjective but something I'd recommend is having your tone all the way down (the least trebly possible). The reason for this is that slides normally will brighten up your tone and if you have your tone high up you'll get a really bright screechy tone. With your tone down you can get a really nice warm tone. I want to stress that this is just something that works for me and there is no reason why you'd need to do it. However, if you're having trouble with your tone I'd recommend you give it a try. Another thing, don't overdo it on the distortion. Bull crappy try a vox germ fuzz with a supro lappy

Now you're ready to start playing!


Getting Started

To get started put your slide on a finger. You can use whatever finger you find comfortable but I would recommend using your third or fourth and not using your first as this does not allow you to use a fret hand finger for muting. I find that the third finger gives me more control and better intonation but it doesn't allow me full use of my other fingers, which the fourth finger does. Use whatever is comfortable but I recommend using your pinky as it gives you much more freedom. When you play slide you just lightly touch the strings. Do not press down. You do not want to touch the frets or fingerboard.

Proper Intonation.
One of the most painful things in the world is bad slide playing. Most of this is due to bad intonation (meaning not having your notes in tune). The thing to remember about intonation is play right over the fret. This is the single most important part of playing slide. The only way to improve your intonation is look at where your playing and listen to whether or not your notes are in tune.

Muting.
Without plucking any strings rub your slide against the strings. You'll hear some strings sounding. You need to stop these strings from ringing out when you play. This is where muting comes in. There are two ways to do this and you should use a combination of both. Drag a left hand finger behind the slide. With your picking hand palm cover any bass strings that you're not playing (for maximum muting use a thumpick or your thumb and use your fingers to mute strings)

Vibrato.
Vibrato with a slide is very easy. Pretty much what you do is quickly shake the slide ever so slightly over the note (i.e. move it slightly up the fretboard and slightly down the fretboard very rapidly). This will slightly raise and lower the pitch. There is really no way to say how much you want to modulate the pitch, just experiment 'till you get what you like. Many players have an almost constant vibrato as it can help cover up less than perfect intonation and it sounds good.

Advanced Techniques.
Here are some more advanced techniques which you should attempt once you have the basics down:

01. Escape Notes.
Start by having your finger resting on the string behind the slide. Quickly slide up to a note and as soon as you reach that note pull up the slide. Your finger will prevent the note from ringing after you remove the slide. You should hear a very short, staccato note.

02. Grace Notes.
Grace notes on slide are very similar to what you do when you play standard. Basically what it is is you play one note and then very quickly play another note. The first note should not take up any time. You can do this through slides, hammer-ons and pull-offs, or bends when playing standard. With a slide this is only done throught slides. basically what you do is start above or below your desired note and quickly slide into it. Not much to it.

03. Fretting Behind The Slide.
This technique was pioneered by slide virtuoso Sonny Landreth (though I believe it was done before he was even born by delta blues guys like Robert Johnson). It's pretty self explanatory: when you have your slide down fret a note below the slide. The string will go down and (hopefully) will not be touched by the slide. For this to work you have to make sure that the slide does not touch the string. You can fret behind the slide with the slide on your finger but I'd definitely recommend having it on your pinky if you're gonna be using this technique a lot. The advantage to doing this is it gives you more complex tones (by mixing fretted and non-fretted notes) and just gives you more freedom (for example it allows you to play a minor chord in a major tuning.

04. Microtones.
Another great thing about slide is that you aren't limited to just playing the notes available in standard playing (A, C, E flat, F sharp etc). You can play the 'notes inside of notes' called microtones. To do this you simply place your slide in between two frets instead of right over one. However, don't think that you can get away with crappy intonation by just saying that you're using microtones.

05. Going Beyond The Fretboard.
Yet another great thing about slide guitar (there are just so many!! ) is that you don't need frets. That means that you can play beyond the fretboard for extra high notes. When you're doing this you have to be extra carful about your intonation because you have nothing to show you if you are in the right place. Another thing to remember is that you can't go beyond your pickup. So, if you're on your neck pup and you slide is in between the bridge and neck pup's and you're not hearing anything you'll know why. That is why I stay on my bridge pup while playing slide.

06. Behind The Slide Harmonics.
Here's a really cool thing you can do. What you do is pluck the strings behind the slide and you'll get a really unusual sound. It's kinda hard to describe. This works best at the 12th fret but also works at the 5th and 7th fret



Again sorry for being lazy.Hope the post helps though :

[Steve206]

Thanks Mudcat and everyone for chipping in.

Went to Walmart and looked at the tool section. Almost got one of those sets that look like a swiss army knife. Luckily, I spotted another loose set that had SAE and Metric for 94 cents. I am in business.

Steve

[Bucks Owin]

Nice post Mudcat...

I like open "E" too, in fact I spent my first year playing "regular" guitar with that tuning when I was about 7 yrs old. Thankfully, I had a cousin who was a "working picker" (as well as my "mentor") and he told me he would take after my ol' Danelectro with some side cutters if I didn't start all over in standard tuning!!! (I took his advice!!)

But I still mostly like open E for slide....

Again, great post amigo!

Dennis

BTW, the $99 Squire "51" makes into a good (and funky looking!) slide guitar. ( IMO, they need too much work done on them to use any other way...) The SC and HB pups give some nice tonal variations and there's out of phase too.....