I don't like recording guitar with headphones

[Robert****]

Is it just me? Or is it the Gearbox sounds? I like the guitar tones after I recorded them, but I get no feel when I record through headphones.

When I play my amp loud, I get this feel happening - I can feel the notes as I'm playing them, the dynamics in my amp is great, and the sound from the speakers pleasant.

Then when I record with my Toneport through my (excellent) headphones, it just sounds like pancakes. : No big, dynamic tone, and the result is I lose my inspiration when playing. The tone sounds fine when I listen back to it, but when I am recording my guitar, it sounds flat like a : through my headphones.

Anyone else experiencing what I'm talking about? Maybe it's just the nature of monitoring through headphones?

I really need to buy some decent monitors for recording myself, that would solve the problem.

[sunvalleylaw]

I think I notice the difference too, when running it back through my amph. But I was liking the sounds through my cheap headphones last night too. (walkman style) Just not quite as great as the amph.

[Justaguyin_nc]

Is it just me? Or is it the Gearbox sounds? I like the guitar tones after I recorded them, but I get no feel when I record through headphones.

When I play my amp loud, I get this feel happening - I can feel the notes as I'm playing them, the dynamics in my amp is great, and the sound from the speakers pleasant.

Then when I record with my Toneport through my (excellent) headphones, it just sounds like pancakes. : No big, dynamic tone, and the result is I lose my inspiration when playing. The tone sounds fine when I listen back to it, but when I am recording my guitar, it sounds flat like a : through my headphones.

Anyone else experiencing what I'm talking about? Maybe it's just the nature of monitoring through headphones?

I really need to buy some decent monitors for recording myself, that would solve the problem.

On a beginners view..

Some added tones on the toneport actually have inspired me.

Personally, I need the headphones to make it sound good..
well, lets say better than without when it comes to me..
Dynamics..to new to know them.. it just sounds good.

Could it be the headphones themselves? even if they are excellent?

Im quite content with an old pair of Sony mdr-7506 and the computer speakers do not come anywhere near the sound they give me.

Now I do have a cheaper pair that makes everything flat or should I say BASS heavy.. so different headphones will give different sounds.

Recently, I been running into my stereo system.. it gets as loud as my amps..
But nothing compares to the real amp/pedal sounds.. which make my ears bleed.. in a nice way...:

Sounds to me like a GAS excuse to buy monitor speakers...:

not that there is anything wrong with that!!!

[oldguy]

I think it's similar, maybe the same thing you're describing.......... if I mic up my amp and crank it just enough, I can feel the notes, control them w/ finger vibrato, coax it into feedback, feel the air "thump" my chest from in front of the speakers. It's alive! Alive! A living, breathing entity......... guess that's the best I can explain it. I'm interacting w/ the amp, guitar, strings, everything. To me, that's part of the mojo of a tube amp, crank one up and it's magical..........
And I can't get that w/ the POD or the Digitech RP-250 or anything else through headphones. I think it's because the sense of sound is only part of the equation, when you actually feel the music as well as hear it, it becomes sooooo much more enjoyable, it's just not the same w/ 'phones alone.....

[Robert****]

Right on the spot, Oldguy. It's that feeling that isn't there through headphones. The feel, the dynamic control, the mojo, whatever you call it, isn't quite there when I record with headphones. Hope that makes sense.

[abraxas]

OK, this is not uncommon, but there are workarounds.

First of all, as I learned from my good friend Spiros (which, incidentally is an electronics wiz and I believe you will see his work soon enough!) the problem seems to be with modern headphones vs the impedance of the headphone outputs on most recording interfaces. Even my rather expensive RME Fireface 400, has this problem, the sound through headphones is "tiny" compared to the "real thing".

One solution is to use a dedicated headphone amp, preferably a tube driven one, that will give back the harmonic content to the sound.

The method I employ is rather crude but effective. Simply, when I record guitar, I set channel level to a minimum and only hear the "background" channels (drums, guide lines, etc). I put "half" the headphones on my ears, in order to hear the amp sound clearly and just have a good indication of where I am in the song. One problem is input latency, in other words, the A/D converters striving to keep up with your playing and always being a little late... But on my card this is minimal.

Other times, I don't use mics at all, but employ a cabinet simulator, listening to the resulting mix through my monitors. I may leave the actual cabinet "on" in order to have the "on stage" feeling, but, in reality, I record the signal through the cab sim only. My amp has a dummy load which allows me to bypass the speakers altogether, although you can achieve the same thing with a Hot Plate or similar external dummy load.

These are the methods I employ personally, I can't insist they are the best, but they work for me...

[sunvalleylaw]

Yeah, I get what OG is saying. I think that adding the power behind the sounds and driving it through a decent speaker and cab makes a big difference. I suppose good recording monitor type speakers, powered properly, would give the same effect.

[SuperSwede]

OK, this is not uncommon, but there are workarounds.

First of all, as I learned from my good friend Spiros (which, incidentally is an electronics wiz and I believe you will see his work soon enough!) the problem seems to be with modern headphones vs the impedance of the headphone outputs on most recording interfaces. Even my rather expensive RME Fireface 400, has this problem, the sound through headphones is "tiny" compared to the "real thing".

One solution is to use a dedicated headphone amp, preferably a tube driven one, that will give back the harmonic content to the sound.

The method I employ is rather crude but effective. Simply, when I record guitar, I set channel level to a minimum and only hear the "background" channels (drums, guide lines, etc). I put "half" the headphones on my ears, in order to hear the amp sound clearly and just have a good indication of where I am in the song. One problem is input latency, in other words, the A/D converters striving to keep up with your playing and always being a little late... But on my card this is minimal.

Other times, I don't use mics at all, but employ a cabinet simulator, listening to the resulting mix through my monitors. I may leave the actual cabinet "on" in order to have the "on stage" feeling, but, in reality, I record the signal through the cab sim only. My amp has a dummy load which allows me to bypass the speakers altogether, although you can achieve the same thing with a Hot Plate or similar external dummy load.

These are the methods I employ personally, I can't insist they are the best, but they work for me...

The quality of the cab sim is a very important factor when chasing that feeling in direct recordings. The PodXT has a really decent cab sim but I really prefer what the H&K red box pro does to the feel, sound and overall experience of direct recordings. The cab sim in our Tech21 stuff aint half bad either, but I have to say that it could have a little more "air"

[abraxas]

The quality of the cab sim is a very important factor when chasing that feeling in direct recordings. The PodXT has a really decent cab sim but I really prefer what the H&K red box pro does to the feel, sound and overall experience of direct recordings. The cab sim in our Tech21 stuff aint half bad either, but I have to say that it could have a little more "air"

I agree; I have the Red Box too.

In any case, even for the Trademark direct out, I always take the signal through the preamps of my rec. interface. The preamps on the Fireface are crystal clear and with seemingly infinite headroom, and that method, I believe, gives much more punch and definition to the sound.

I also use a cabinet simulator Spiros custom made for me. He has already completed some of them for a few Swedish guitar players. Oh, did I mention Spiros lives in Malmo?

[Robert****]

Has anyone tried the Palmer speaker sim? I hear it's the best you can get in the world of speaker simulators.

[abraxas]

Has anyone tried the Palmer speaker sim? I hear it's the best you can get in the world of speaker simulators.

If you're talking about the rack mounted PDI-03, a friend uses it and like most people believes it to be the best you can get.

The smaller "pedal sized" ones are about the same quality as the Red Box (which is very good, BTW), in fact many people clearly prefer the Red Box.

[Robert****]

Yep, that was the one I meant, the rack version.

[jpfeifer]

Hi Robert,

I'm with you on the headphones. Not to mention that headphones are really bad for the hearing. It's really hard to get into the same feel as you do when you're playing live and can feel the amp, and the other sounds from the rest of the band.

This is one of the harder parts of recording, in my opinion, how to make it sound live an spontaneous when you're in this laboratory environment of recording with headphones. That's challenging.

-- Jim

[SuperSwede]

I agree; I have the Red Box too.

In any case, even for the Trademark direct out, I always take the signal through the preamps of my rec. interface. The preamps on the Fireface are crystal clear and with seemingly infinite headroom, and that method, I believe, gives much more punch and definition to the sound.

I also use a cabinet simulator Spiros custom made for me. He has already completed some of them for a few Swedish guitar players. Oh, did I mention Spiros lives in Malmo?

Price? Features?
Sounds better than the red box?


Does Palmer still make cab sims?? I thought they stopped making these several years ago...