Curing Acoustic Set Up Ills.

[sunvalleylaw]

Dreadman graciously offered his knowledge on setting up acoustics and curing common ills. See below:

QUOTE
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunvalleylaw
It now has some serious fret buzzing issues and a hump in the neck where it joins the body and needs some work. If I fret high E at 10 at get a note at 12 or 13 right now." end SV quote


Dreadman then said:
Very common problem. If you want more info about it and the steps for a low effort, low cost do-it-yourself repair start a new thread and I'll post what I know. END QUOTE"


My acoustic has fret buzzing issues in open position, and due to what I am told is a hump in the neck where it joins the body, frets improperly. Example, fret high E string at 10 and get a note somewhere at 12 or 13. Seems to affect the higher pitched strings mostly. The Martin rep, when he was at the local store last year giving a seminar and giving out free re-stringings, said my nut may be a bit low and might ultimately need some shimming or something. He had it set up so it played better than before, monkeying around with my adjustable truss rod, but my guitar weeks later fell, and that good set up went away. I like the guitar, but it is not worth much I don't think, and don't want to spend much on a set up or repair. Here is a clip that demonstrates the fret buzzing problem. (ok, no jokes about the playing being the problem. I am working on that. )

http://www.box.net/shared/9h25rks0s4

Thanks Dreadman, and any of you other knowledgeable acoustic folk, for any help you can offer.

[Tone2TheBone]

The first thing I'd do is shim the bridge first...then maybe put a whole new tusq nut on it. Not saying it's the best thing to do mind you just the first thing I would do. And then I'd have me a beer.

[luvmyshiner]

Steve, Dread's the "go to man" on these issues, but my understanding is that the dreaded (heh, heh) 12th fret hump can be caused by humidity problems. I began having a similar problem with my D10S about a month ago. Two weeks in a hard shell case with a humidifier took care of the problem. I did have to adjust the truss rod after the guitar re-humidified, but no biggie there.

There are a lot of little humidifiers commercially available. I use a home made one that Pike suggested on that "other" forum:



It's just a soap box, with holes drilled in the top, and a damp sponge inside. I would probably give that a shot before looking at adjusting the action.

[Tone2TheBone]

Hey Shiner how often do you put the soapbox in the guitar case? Here in NM as you know it's dryer than dirt and I want to make sure mah new Martini is well taken care of.

[sunvalleylaw]

My guitar had no humidification for the first 5 or 6 years I owned it, and I was not playing it much then. When I started playing it regularly, I started using one of these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-GUITAR-VIOLI...QQcmdZViewItem


It seemed to help, but I was not super regular, and over time it got worse. Humidity is part of the issue I think, but I think it has set up woes as well.

[luvmyshiner]

Hey Tone. Most of the year our humidity level runs right around 46% which is great. During the winter months when we run our heater a lot (gas), the humidity drops to 30-35%. That's the time we usually start having problems. I start watching the guitars closer when the humidity drops below 40% for signs of humidity problems. Things like changes in the top of the guitar, the dreaded 12th fret hump, or unidentified buzzes and such. If I see any signs I go ahead and case the guitar with a humidifier.

Some of the guitars are more susceptible to humidity problems than others. I'm not sure why.

[sunvalleylaw]

Taylors are reported to not do well up here in the high desert. Thin top. Martins, and the Gibsons made in Montana, also intermountain, do better.

[sunvalleylaw]

Steve, Dread's the "go to man" on these issues, but my understanding is that the dreaded (heh, heh) 12th fret hump can be caused by humidity problems. I began having a similar problem with my D10S about a month ago. Two weeks in a hard shell case with a humidifier took care of the problem. I did have to adjust the truss rod after the guitar re-humidified, but no biggie there.

There are a lot of little humidifiers commercially available. I use a home made one that Pike suggested on that "other" forum:



It's just a soap box, with holes drilled in the top, and a damp sponge inside. I would probably give that a shot before looking at adjusting the action.

That is a good idea. A local guy who owns a lot of nice guitars uses a sponge in a plastic baggie with holes also. Cheaper and easier yet. I may try to get the guitar re-humidified that way, as the old school Herco one (clay in a plastic tin) does not seem to add enough humidity for this guitar's needs.

[Cal]

During "central heating" season I use two "super guitar Dampits."



One in the guitar body, hanging off the E and A strings, and one sitting loose above the accessories compartment. I also keep a digital hygrometer (here's a cheap one) in the case and aim for around 50% RH.

I first discovered this remedy from Dreadman when my D13S got "the hump."

[sunvalleylaw]

Ok, certainly I have humidity issues in this guitar, but the set up is also off. I know this because the Martin guy had it working pretty good, and when the gig bag dropped it, all that changed. I think I may need some set up with the truss rod, and also Tone's suggestion might be really good. But I am waiting on hearing from the Dreadman.

[luvmyshiner]

Good point Cal, everyone needs at least one digital hygrometer to keep track of humidity. I have four. One that I use to keep track of the general humidity in the house, and three small ones that I put in cases.

Steve, I would still recommend making sure your guitar is properly humidified prior to doing a set up. If you set up your guitar, then humidify it, the changes in the guitar may require another set up afterwards.

Oh, and absolutely wait for Dread to check in before doing anything. That bugger always seems to pick up on things I either miss, or don't know about.:

[Tone2TheBone]

Good thread you guys keep it up.

Steve how do you think the Martin will do where I live? I'm at 5000' above sea level but like you there in Idaho...it's high and dry. Where do I get one of those hydrometer or hygrometer thingies?

[Cal]

Steve, could you take a pic looking sideways down the neck... something like this:



That would give us a fair idea as to what might be going on.
(Notice the top of the frets are virtually in a dead straight line... aiming for the top of the bridge.)

[sunvalleylaw]

Yeah, I can do that, hopefully tonight.

[sunvalleylaw]

Good thread you guys keep it up.

Steve how do you think the Martin will do where I live? I'm at 5000' above sea level but like you there in Idaho...it's high and dry. Where do I get one of those hydrometer or hygrometer thingies?

I would take care of it, but given decent care, they are not reputed to be super vulnerable, like the Taylors are reputed to be. Note I say reputed. I am just going on hearsay from guys at the shop and other local guitarists. Like I was mentioning, one local musician/sound guy who has a lot of nice guitars including Martins apparently does fine with the sponge technique. The Martins in the shop I frequent seem to do fine. The shop is humidified, but it is a big room and the door to the outside opens and closes a lot. They seem to do fine.

So given the level of care you give your stuff, I would think your new baby will be fine. :

[Tone2TheBone]

I would take care of it, but given decent care, they are not reputed to be super vulnerable, like the Taylors are reputed to be. Note I say reputed. I am just going on hearsay from guys at the shop and other local guitarists. Like I was mentioning, one local musician/sound guy who has a lot of nice guitars including Martins apparently does fine with the sponge technique. The Martins in the shop I frequent seem to do fine. The shop is humidified, but it is a big room and the door to the outside opens and closes a lot. They seem to do fine.

So given the level of care you give your stuff, I would think your new baby will be fine. :

Well we have forced air heating AND burn the woodstove in the winter time and that eats up any moisture in the air real quick. I never even thought about what it does to guitars especially acoustic guitars until now. All the shops in town have their acoustics inside a closed room with humidifiers cranking away and now I suppose I'll have to do the same. My other acoustics seem to be doing ok though...I have no visible problems with them at all and I guess that's why I never paid it much thought.

[Cal]

Well we have forced air heating AND burn the woodstove in the winter time and that eats up any moisture in the air real quick. I never even thought about what it does to guitars especially acoustic guitars until now. All the shops in town have their acoustics inside a closed room with humidifiers cranking away and now I suppose I'll have to do the same. My other acoustics seem to be doing ok though...I have no visible problems with them at all and I guess that's why I never paid it much thought.

Tone, I'd guess the RH in your home is currently around the 25% mark. Too dry for solid wood acoustics.

The laminated wood babies fare quite well in all sorts of humidity for obvious reasons. But bear in mind that most fretboards are solid and you don't want the fret ends slicing your fingers off when the board shrinks. Also, any humidity excesses will affect the neck itself (usually through the fretboard as the back of the neck is normally sealed by its finish), which I think is probably Steve's problem.

So, during the winter I'd keep your guitars in their hard cases with humidifiers that let the moisture get to the whole guitar (Shiner's DIY ones are superb) and have a digital hygrometer in the case too, to make sure the RH is around 50%.

Just my 2 cents.

[Tone2TheBone]

Tone, I'd guess the RH in your home is currently around the 25% mark. Too dry for solid wood acoustics.

The laminated wood babies fare quite well in all sorts of humidity for obvious reasons. But bear in mind that most fretboards are solid and you don't want the fret ends slicing your fingers off when the board shrinks. Also, any humidity excesses will affect the neck itself (usually through the fretboard as the back of the neck is normally sealed by its finish), which I think is probably Steve's problem.

So, during the winter I'd keep your guitars in their hard cases with humidifiers that let the moisture get to the whole guitar (Shiner's DIY ones are superb) and have a digital hygrometer in the case too, to make sure the RH is around 50%.

Just my 2 cents.

Thanks for your 2 cents! Done...I'm ordering one of those gadgets right now thank you for your assessment sir.

Btw Stephen S.T. Esquire I didn't mean to hijack your thread sorry!

[KrisH]

Underhumidification can masquerade as many different problems. I played my old Hohner for several years, treating the fret buzzes by raising the saddle with shims and obliviously blaming the humped neck on bad construction. I finally decided that the neck on that guitar had serious problems, and bought my first new guitar -- a Washburn. But within a few weeks, it started exhibiting the same symptoms.

Enter Dreadman : , who posted on the WGF, where I went for help with my new **** guitar. I took the advice he gave and humidified the guitar and lo -- the buzzing stopped, the neck straightened out. I tried the treatment on the Hohner, and it ended up not having a neck problem at all. After letting both guitars reach a happy level of humidification, I did setups on them, complete with new bone saddles for each. And they both played just fine. (The Washburn had other unrelated problems.)

Ultimately, I got more guitars and other instruments sensitive to humidity extremes, and I thought it best to put a humidifier in each room of the house once the heating kicked in. You never know where you'll find a guitar, fiddle or bass propped up in our home! Besides, it helps with static electricity, sinuses, and general comfort .

So it might be a good idea to get the wood in the guitar back in decent condition before tweaking the truss rod or shimming up the saddle. But don't rehumidify it too quickly! It's the sudden changes in in moisture content that cause different parts of the guitar to contract or expand disproportionately, and could cause permanent damage.

That's just my experience, and what has been taught to me.