Mythbusters

[stingx]

You can't polish a turd...well, actually you can but then in the end it's just a highly polished turd. The best upgrade and what makes a guitar sound good is PRACTICE. That's it. It doesn't get any simpler. These guys we grew up listening to spent their time PLAYING and honing their craft. These days of modelers and forums people piss away all kinds of money on stuff thinking it'll make them play better. There is no substitute for talent. You either have it or you don't - at least that's ONE thing you can't buy these days...

[LagrangeCalvert]

You can't polish a turd...well, actually you can but then in the end it's just a highly polished turd. The best upgrade and what makes a guitar sound good is PRACTICE. That's it. It doesn't get any simpler. These guys we grew up listening to spent their time PLAYING and honing their craft. These days of modelers and forums people piss away all kinds of money on stuff thinking it'll make them play better. There is no substitute for talent. You either have it or you don't - at least that's ONE thing you can't buy these days...

As quoted from the great Fret.net book....Spudman, chapter 8, verse 12.


You speak the truth....and on top of that you talk of turds.....

Talent...then gear...then pancakes.:

[just strum]

LC, I can buy in to or at least understand your reasoning on everything, but the nut material. IMHO nut material means almost nothing since any string that's fretted takes the nut out of the sound element. As long as the material is harder as plastic or harder, I really don't think you are going to find a whole lot of difference. Even to the trained ear I don't think they would notice it if all other parts of the guitar and gear were equal.

[LagrangeCalvert]

I use exclusively LSR roller nuts....

and nut material played more into sustain/bite.

Ask around, see if people who changed the nuts (would that be like a musical sex change) on their guitars have noticed a difference. Most people I know say yes, but it could be (this is not being an *** either) one of those mental things that makes you THINK the sound is different.

I mainly do it so I don't break strings. I play heavy and about 20hrs. a week, so the less time I spend doing tech on a guitar the better. Personally I have noticed that with roller nuts you get a slipperier feel with the cost of a tad of sustain.....

[Bloozcat]

Sometimes when you put the best of everything in a guitar, it still ends up sounding less than toneful. And sometimes when you don't use the best of everything, you still end up with a guitar with sweet tone. There's a little magic in the process that defies logic.

From experience I've found that those things that are considered "essential" for good tone, are worth pursuing, but they aren't necessarily going to guarantee perfect results. Using a Strat as an example: A lightweight piece of alder or swamp ash for a body will result in a more resonant body generally, so I use lighter bodies whenever possible. Although heavier alder bodies are purported to produce better sustain, I've found that isn't necessarily the truth in many cases. So, I stick with resonance and reasonably good to great sustain in the lighter body. A thinner finish will allow the body to resonate better than a thicker finish, all things being equal, so I use nitro lacquer. A steel tremolo block has better ring, chime, and sustain than a cast block, and it transfers the string energy to the body better, so I use steel. A bone nut produces clearer open string notes than plastic or most soft synthetics, so I use bone (or Tusq, which is pretty close to bone).

Even though all these things were found in the "vintage" Strats that are so highly prized, they don't guarantee that a new guitar made this way will sound like a prized vintage Strat. But then again, many a Strat from the vintage era that was made like this, didn't sound like a prized vintage Strat either. Call it, magic, mojo, or whatever, it's not an exacting science. Despite the best materials and the best intentions, some guitars turn out to be toneful, and some turn out to be bricks. It's just the way it is....

[Duff]

Some guitars sound magical for reasons not attributable to their physical composition alone, in any understandable way. The guitar being a very complex mix of separate pieces and qualities of pieces, and imperfections can make for unanticipated magic.

Plus any of several players may find the guitar magical or otherwise. The player himself may be mainly mythical.

I like to think of the great possibly mythical, "Johnny B. Good". Presumably he has some great tone. What did he carry in that gunny sack. Probably not a tricked out super mega ax. He practiced. He had ideas that he drew from his environment and mind and transferred thru his fingers into his unknown guitar. One day his name would be in lights and people would come from miles around to hear, "hear" him play. Obviously he had tone. Was he like Hendrix or others that just pick up a basic guitar and are able to produce magic spontaneously? This would suggest that you don't even have to "learn" a guitar, individually, to make it sing your soul. I would imagine that these people find great sounding guitars in lots of different places and that they have found some really poor sounding ones as well.

I have played very inexpensive guitars that to my ear sound super great. Some of these companies are making some great inexpensive guitars. I played some sweet sounding ones, to me: a Samick twelve string acoustic, an inexpensive Yamaha acoustic, and Epi Sg with stock pups.

And then, the major factor is the amp. A super great amp can make a funky guitar sound unbelievable. A funky amp can make a great guitar sound terrible.

So it is a quest; possibly mythical, to find that special super great tone, sometimes found, sometimes elusive. Some people try to build that tone, others try to find it. When you get it you know it, whether anybody else agrees or not. So it is a personal thing that is important to some people, while others are content with brand loyalty, model admiration, star emulation, and other reasons to believe that their ax sounds super mega great.

As in any art, beauty is in the eye of the beholder; or hands, ears, imagination, etc.

Duffy

Everybody is right. It is a subjective thing. Objectively we sometimes agree.

[sumitomo]

Ya know this is the same for other things too.I have worked on cars for 30+ yrs.,built alot of race cars and even though they use the same parts some just have that ya know!!and you go crazy just trying to recreate it.Sumi

[tremoloman***]

Ive been playing guitar for 20 years now, and modding for about half of that time. IMHO the biggest difference in tone (I'm a tone whore so trust me I found these things out the hard way) is HARDWARE. I've noticed the weight of the guitar, the neck mount (set or bolt on) and how the strings are attached; String through, Floating bridge, Floyd, or W/E, are the biggest play the biggest part in shaping sound as well - that is, beyond hardware. The Nut material and type can play a factor into how a guitar sounds and feels.


I noticed a big difference in clarity and bite when I went from the cheap plastic nut and stock saddles of my 50's strat to the LSR Roller nut and graph tech saddles...... AND I haven't broke a string on that guitar since I had those mods done (a year ago)........

Same with my Epi. I put a roller nut and graph tech saddles and it made the tone awesome.


Thats my .02 on the subject(s).

My thing is :

Its only a cheap guitar until you stick 300 dollars in parts into it. I refuse to pay more than 400 dollars for slabs of wood that I can shape/tune to play like a 2000 dollar slab of plants/bone/whatever "booo-teek" materials you can think of.

VERY WELL SAID! :

I agree 100% with your statements above. A guitar is what YOU make it. I find it much more fun getting a cheaper MIM and then modding the hell out of it versus buying a stock model. Making the instrument your own is what its all about.

[sunvalleylaw]

T-Man, I was thinking just that re: MIMs when I just read you post about the prices of American Strats over in the new american strat thread. I love my MIM 60th. I have not felt the need to mod it yet at all. I may do the nut sometime.

[Spudman***]

Some guitars sound magical for reasons not attributable to their physical composition alone, in any understandable way. The guitar being a very complex mix of separate pieces and qualities of pieces, and imperfections can make for unanticipated magic.

Plus any of several players may find the guitar magical or otherwise. The player himself may be mainly mythical.

I like to think of the great possibly mythical, "Johnny B. Good". Presumably he has some great tone. What did he carry in that gunny sack. Probably not a tricked out super mega ax. He practiced. He had ideas that he drew from his environment and mind and transferred thru his fingers into his unknown guitar. One day his name would be in lights and people would come from miles around to hear, "hear" him play. Obviously he had tone. Was he like Hendrix or others that just pick up a basic guitar and are able to produce magic spontaneously? This would suggest that you don't even have to "learn" a guitar, individually, to make it sing your soul. I would imagine that these people find great sounding guitars in lots of different places and that they have found some really poor sounding ones as well.

I have played very inexpensive guitars that to my ear sound super great. Some of these companies are making some great inexpensive guitars. I played some sweet sounding ones, to me: a Samick twelve string acoustic, an inexpensive Yamaha acoustic, and Epi Sg with stock pups.

And then, the major factor is the amp. A super great amp can make a funky guitar sound unbelievable. A funky amp can make a great guitar sound terrible.

So it is a quest; possibly mythical, to find that special super great tone, sometimes found, sometimes elusive. Some people try to build that tone, others try to find it. When you get it you know it, whether anybody else agrees or not. So it is a personal thing that is important to some people, while others are content with brand loyalty, model admiration, star emulation, and other reasons to believe that their ax sounds super mega great.

As in any art, beauty is in the eye of the beholder; or hands, ears, imagination, etc.

Duffy

Everybody is right. It is a subjective thing. Objectively we sometimes agree.

+1 Well said.

[hubberjub***]

Price does not make a good guitar good. It also doesn't matter where in the world it was made. Especially on mass produced (CNC) guitars like Fender, Gibson, and PRS (and most others). I have a 1991 Fender American Standard Stratocaster that I bought in 1996 that I just can't enjoy. In the last twelve years I've installed locking tuners, swapped the bridge, swapped it back, put Graph Tech nut and saddles on, replaced all of the electronics, and put Seymour Duncan pickups in it. I broke down and had it professionally set up and it still doesn't play or sound very good. Sometimes you just get a dud. It's taken me 12 years to realize it.

[Dauntless]

I've got 2 Micheal Kelly Hourglass', both quilt tops.
One has a smoke burst finish, and the other has a natural finish.
They both sound and look awsome!
Same pickups, same manufacturing plant!
The only difference between the two is that the burst is 2yrs older than the natural, but newer in the sense that it had not been played, pretty much since it was made.
The natural was always being played, at the flea market where I got it.
Everybody played it and I mean everybody, but no one bought it, till I came around and the wife talked into playing it and it was mine!
Any way, what I'm getting at is, in spite of the abuse from every body and their kids banging on it, the natural sounds better to me.
It's not as pretty as the burst, but it has some sort of mojo that makes it different!

[R.B. Huckleberry]

Red Telecasters sound better.

[Brian Krashpad]

Red Telecasters sound better.

No.

Butterscotch.

You could look it up!

Or ask the guy in your avatar.

[Spudman***]

Really? I think Keith likes Musicman Silhouette guitars.


Seriously though...the best sounding Telecaster? A loud one.

[ShortBuSX]

Well that page reads good and of course it makes all of us feel better about our budget guitars, its all debatable anyways...BUT what I dont particularly care for is his Attackbucker page

What kind of wire do you use? What kind of magnet? Spacers?

If you are concerned about these details you are missing the point. You can be assured that the pickup is built with high quality parts tailored to achieve a specific sound. There is a lot of hype floating around the internet about certain characteristics of certain pickups and their components. Based on solid research, the majority of it is just that -- hype.

Since when is magnet type considered "hype"?

And then...

What if I don’t like it?

Tell us why you don’t like it and we’ll try to figure something out. What we will guarantee is that this pickup, as part of a quality signal chain, will help you attain that mythical sound

Doesnt inspire warm fuzzies doing business with him...I get the impression if you dont like it(whatever IT may be) that youre only setting yourself up for debate.

Maybe thats just me *shrug*