Ditto.
Man, Gibson seems to want to tick me off. I assume that you have seen that Gibson is suing Activision over Guitar Hero and now also Harmonix over Rock Band, saying the products violate their patents. Because Guitar Hero has a Les Paul-shaped guitar? Nope, Activision paid for the right to do that. Here's News.com's summary of the patent:
They are also suing retailers, including Wal-Mart, for carrying those products. Without reading the patent (or knowing what Gibson product this is supposed to cover), it seems vague enough that it could even cover tab books that include a backing track. The question is, if they KNEW that this product was out there since they took Activision's money for the Les Paul controller, why did they wait three years to file the suit? Can you say "Money grab"? I knew you could!A copy of Gibson's patent included in the court filing showed a method for simulating a live performance using a musical instrument, a 3D headset with stereo speakers, and a prerecorded concert.
"Based on our preliminary analysis, the Guitar Hero software (including any expansion packs) and the guitar controller provided by Activision being used as a musical instrument (packaged with the software or sold standalone) are covered by the...patent," Gibson's law firm said in its January 7 letter. "Gibson requests that Activision obtain a license under Gibson's...patent or halt sales of any version of the Guitar Hero game software."
As if it's not bad enough that they basically make it impossible for smallish retailers to carry their products, their QC has become questionable, and their prices just keep going up, they pull a stunt like this.
You know, I really wouldn't mind having a Les Paul, but if I would ever get one I'd look to an Agile or ESP knock-off first. Not because they are inherently better, but because I'm sick of Gibson's corporate crap. I won't support that with my $$.
Axen: Jackson DK2M, Fender Deluxe Nashville Telecaster, Reverend Warhawk 390, Taylor 914ce, ESP LTD Surveyor-414
Amphen: Jet City JCA22H and JCA12S cab, Carvin X-60 combo, Acoustic B20
Effecten: "Thesis 96" Overdrive/Boost (aka DVM OD2), Hardwire DL-8 Digital Delay/Looper, DigiTech Polara Reverb, DigiTech EX-7 Expression Factory and CF-7 Chorus Factory, Danelectro CF-1 Cool Cat Fuzz
"I wish Imagine Dragons would be stuck in an Arcade Fire for an entire Vampire Weekend."--Brian Posehn
Ditto.
"No Tele For you." - The Tele Nazi
Ha! Tele-ish now inbound.
Gibson has a history of doing this and the success of the LP has caused all kinds of copies. Sometimes their lawsuits are successful and other times not. I think they get carried away at times because in a way they are suing the very thing that is free promotion for them.
On the other hand, I'm not sure how protective I would be if I had that product.
Mark
* Loud is good, good is better!
Gibson should be ashamed of themselves. Guitar Hero is not only introducing kids to some decent music again, but it's also getting several of them interested in learning how to play the guitar which would translate to increased sales of guitars...several of which may be Gibson or Epiphone.
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
I don't think I'm going to have to do with Gibson in the future, either.
-Kodiak
Guitars:
Washburn Idol 64 DL w/GFS Dream 180 pups
Washburn X-33 w/GFS 60's-70's Grey Bottom Non Stagger Overwound
Stagg G300 SG w/GFS Power Rails
Art & Lutherie Acoustic
I swore off Gibson 30 years ago for this attitude, when they sued Ibanez over the Les Paul 'copy'. If the Ibanez LP's had sucked, they would have left it alone, but they were so good, they hurt Gibson's LP sales.
Their annually upping the ante for independents to keep a franchise is a travesty. One local store here just lost their Epiphone franchise after more than 10 yers with it because he 'only' sold $80K in product last year. My favorite local store owner told me that at Winter NAMM, Gibson was only allowing merchants into their booth if they were current dealers, or had a set appointment via a sales rep.
Their 'exclusively available' deals with Guitar Center and Musician's Friend (isn't the ES-339 such a deal?) are one of the reasons I despise those outfits, too.
However, I'm OK with buying a 'previously owned' Gibson or Epiphone (as long as it's not made in the Gibson China factory) because Gibson gets no money from a resale. But I'd never buy new.
^^
AXES: Fender '81 The STRAT, '12 Standard Tele, '78 Musicmaster Bass, '13 CN-240SCE Thinline; Rickenbacker '82 360-12BWB; Epiphone '05 Casino, '08 John Lennon EJ-160E; Guild '70 D-40NT; Ovation '99 Celebrity CS-257; Yamaha '96 FG411CE-12; Washburn '05 M6SW Mando, '08 Oscar Schmidt OU250Bell Uke; Johnson '96 JR-200-SB Squareneck Reso; Hofner '07 Icon B-Bass; Ibanez '12 AR-325. AMPS: Tech 21 Trademark 10; Peavey ValveKing Royal 8; Fender Acoustonic 90, Passport Mini, Mini Tonemaster; Marshall MS-2 Micro Stack; Behringer BX-108 Thunderbird; Tom Scholz Rockman. PEDALS/FX: Boss ME-50; Yamaha EMP100; Stage DE-1; Samson C-Com 16 L.R. Baggs ParaAcoustic D.I; MXR EQ-10.
Yep, that's what I am referring to when I mention free promotion. Kids get interested in music, see instruments that resemble LP's, tell mom and dad they want an LP. Kid loses interest in music, LP goes on e-bay or garage sale and we fretters get a sweet deal. It's the food chain.Originally Posted by Kodiak3D
Oh, it works for Strats too.
Mark
* Loud is good, good is better!
+1000....that's how i feel too! :Originally Posted by wingsdad
ww
Guitars: Gibson 1998 Les Paul Special : Peavey Predator (Early 90's Fat Strat Copy) : Ibanez GAX30TROriginally Posted by just strum
Brownsville Reso - 101 Electric Reso : Fender GDO-300 Maple Quilt Top Acoustic
Amps: Fender Super Champ XD
Effects: Digitech RP250 Modeling Guitar Processor : DVM "Phased and Confused" Script Phaser Clone : Digitech Bad Monkey
Danelectro Cool Cat Chorus : Behringer Distortion Modeler : Ernie Ball Volume Pedal : Dunlop Cry Baby Wah
Interesting, Wingsdad. That must be why there's only one local shop here in Louisville that I can think of that carries Epiphone.
Down with Gibson!!
-Kodiak
Guitars:
Washburn Idol 64 DL w/GFS Dream 180 pups
Washburn X-33 w/GFS 60's-70's Grey Bottom Non Stagger Overwound
Stagg G300 SG w/GFS Power Rails
Art & Lutherie Acoustic
I don't see how either relates...A copy of the patent is included in Gibson's lawsuit and dated Nov. 23, 1999. It describes a device that lets a user “simulate participation in a concert by playing a musical instrument and wearing a head-mounted 3-D display that includes stereo speakers.”
The device also includes playback of audio and video of a prerecorded concert and a separate track of audio from the user's instrument.
“Guitar Hero” users perform songs using a stringless, plastic guitar that plugs into a game console. A TV connected to the gaming console displays animated musicians playing along and graphics that guide users' play.
I wouldn't buy a Gibson anyways.. I can't afford the darn things..
they out priced the average user...
On a side note: Guitar hero is under $100.. RockBand under 200..
and they both ROCK! get them before your next Gibson
Jimmie Vaughan Strat , Squire 51
Epi 56 GoldTop, SX "Vintage" Jazz Bass
Zager 50, Guild GAD30R (Excellent)
G-Dec 3 Thirty, Valve Junior & Cab
Crate PowerBlock, Crate V33H
Avatar Cabinet 2x12 Hellatones
JamVox, Studio GX With Mods/Farm 2.0.
Yep. A couple of years ago, they told me they had to up their annual Epiphoneinventory buy to $100K to keep the franchise, and that was the minimum per product line to have a Gibson franchise. In other words, $100K in Gibson Electrics got you that, to carry Gibson Montana Acoustics, $100K there, and $100K of OMI product if you wanted to deal Mandos, Banjos and Dobros (there's another Gibson Lawsuit...you can't call a resonator a dobro, because they own the name Dobro).Originally Posted by Kodiak3D
So, ain't no shopping for any new Gibson products around here, with 3 mom & pops and GC/Sam Ash a minimum 2-hour round-trip drive away.
I get to see lots of used stuff though at the one indy that deals in buy/trades. Gets Epis bought at that GC very often, that get traded in or sold to buy Ibanez, Washburn, Schecter, or, his top-o-line, and my fave, G&L.
Full MSRP's on (American) G&L's, even custom-ordered with options, are less than what a Gibby LP goes for at MF or GC Sale price. You can fully load up a G&L and hit about $3G's in MSRP. Their imported equivalent to Epiphone, Tribute, are well below 1/2 that MSRP price line, though...right about in line with Epi, even less.
^^
AXES: Fender '81 The STRAT, '12 Standard Tele, '78 Musicmaster Bass, '13 CN-240SCE Thinline; Rickenbacker '82 360-12BWB; Epiphone '05 Casino, '08 John Lennon EJ-160E; Guild '70 D-40NT; Ovation '99 Celebrity CS-257; Yamaha '96 FG411CE-12; Washburn '05 M6SW Mando, '08 Oscar Schmidt OU250Bell Uke; Johnson '96 JR-200-SB Squareneck Reso; Hofner '07 Icon B-Bass; Ibanez '12 AR-325. AMPS: Tech 21 Trademark 10; Peavey ValveKing Royal 8; Fender Acoustonic 90, Passport Mini, Mini Tonemaster; Marshall MS-2 Micro Stack; Behringer BX-108 Thunderbird; Tom Scholz Rockman. PEDALS/FX: Boss ME-50; Yamaha EMP100; Stage DE-1; Samson C-Com 16 L.R. Baggs ParaAcoustic D.I; MXR EQ-10.
This thread reminds me of retail outlets like Guitar Center that are big,as such they think they can(and they do) charge a higher premium on items that can be had for a smaller fee.True Gibby has done nothing to make me want to even investigate their wares.I do remember when they were top shelf too.
to say or even hint Guitar Hero is hurting them sounds like the sheep that cried wolf,it would not surprise me if lawsuits are the only way they think they(Gibson) can recoup from poor quarterly sales.if as suggested Guitar hero did ask and get rights first I'm not sure they even have a leg to stand on to win such a silly suit but guess they have a battery of lawyers for a reason.i.e.to make something out of nothing.Speaking of Gibson anyone hear they have a new Robot guitar now being pushed? an SG in addition to the LP they had before that went over big too(as in Led balloon). although it did sell out pre ordered in less than two days they had some big time issues with them.talk about undermining the name and products,suspect they did just that.
Life is like a camera, just focus on what’s important and capture the good times, develop from the negatives and if things don’t work out, just take another shot. ~ Anonymous
Guitars: 1967(year they came out): Fender Coronado II Wildwood I ,Fullerton ST- 4 Fat Strat , Esteban Legacy acous/elec,99 MIA Standard Fender Strat
Amph's Original Roland Cube 15,Drive 30 w/spring reverb
From the review done in GP, I certainly don't have a burning desire to go out and buy one. Apparently, Gibson has done all their homework.Originally Posted by player
And for anybody looking for a reasonable alternative to the paul, check out the Washburn Idol series (66 and up). Even the imports are really good guitars and they're a whole lot cheaper than that LP at Musician's Friend. :
Hey! Don't count out the Idol 64's! The DL's are great, and the vintage finished 64's are also very nice.
As for the Robots, I knew they'd have some problems with them. Sounds like a great idea, but I knew the execution would be difficult.
Last edited by Kodiak3D; March 25th, 2008 at 12:02 PM.
-Kodiak
Guitars:
Washburn Idol 64 DL w/GFS Dream 180 pups
Washburn X-33 w/GFS 60's-70's Grey Bottom Non Stagger Overwound
Stagg G300 SG w/GFS Power Rails
Art & Lutherie Acoustic
Don't worry, I wouldn't do that. I LOVE my 64DL. It's just that to me, the 64's are geared more toward competing with the SG than the LP. The bigger boys are almost DIRECTLY aimed at the LP fans, delivering a great product at an even better price. The Pilsen or 70 or even a 68 is on my "one day" list.Originally Posted by Kodiak3D
That makes sense, and like I said in the other thread, the Pilsen is definitely on my want list.Originally Posted by bigoldron
-Kodiak
Guitars:
Washburn Idol 64 DL w/GFS Dream 180 pups
Washburn X-33 w/GFS 60's-70's Grey Bottom Non Stagger Overwound
Stagg G300 SG w/GFS Power Rails
Art & Lutherie Acoustic
Maybe having to pay all of those lawyers to file these types of lawsuits has something to do with Gibson's guitar prices?
Just a thought.
Eric
Guitars: Vox standard model 24,Framus jumbo acoustic,
Crafter Telecaster copy,Crafter D-7 acoustic,
Samick les paul copy.
Dillion SG
Amps: Behringer GMX1200H, Epiphone valve jr.
That, and a piece of their marketing budget is built into every guitar.Originally Posted by mechanic
You pay about 25% for the wood & steel, 5% for Quality control and 70% for the lawyers, martinis lunches, artist endorsements, rights, etc, etc.
OK...maybe that's a bit strong.
^^
AXES: Fender '81 The STRAT, '12 Standard Tele, '78 Musicmaster Bass, '13 CN-240SCE Thinline; Rickenbacker '82 360-12BWB; Epiphone '05 Casino, '08 John Lennon EJ-160E; Guild '70 D-40NT; Ovation '99 Celebrity CS-257; Yamaha '96 FG411CE-12; Washburn '05 M6SW Mando, '08 Oscar Schmidt OU250Bell Uke; Johnson '96 JR-200-SB Squareneck Reso; Hofner '07 Icon B-Bass; Ibanez '12 AR-325. AMPS: Tech 21 Trademark 10; Peavey ValveKing Royal 8; Fender Acoustonic 90, Passport Mini, Mini Tonemaster; Marshall MS-2 Micro Stack; Behringer BX-108 Thunderbird; Tom Scholz Rockman. PEDALS/FX: Boss ME-50; Yamaha EMP100; Stage DE-1; Samson C-Com 16 L.R. Baggs ParaAcoustic D.I; MXR EQ-10.