To Modeler Or Not To Modeler

[Tim]

Last night I played without a digital modeler. I basically went straight out from the guitar (2 humbuckers) into a Echo/Delay foot pedal and then into a small PA amplifier which feed 2 each speakers with 12 inch woofers and a 4 horn. I must say the sound and tone was great. This maybe the way for me to go. Even with the keyboard player, my tone was very good.

I am a bit confused why I can not obtain the same sound and tone with either the Digitech RP-200A or the V-Amp2? I have tweaked and tweaked these two modelers until I am blue in the face. I have even turned off the amp modeler and still can not obtain that tone. As I mentioned in past threads, as soon as the keyboard player starts playing, I loose all bass tone in my signal and my tone becomes very trebly.

Anyone have thoughts on this problem I am having with loss of bass while playing with a keyboard player?

As I stated above, I will probably just stay away from the modelers and plug straight into the PA system amp. Now the only effects I really use are chorus, echo/delay and occasionally the Bad Monkey.

Does anybody know if they have a combined chorus/delay pedal? If not, what would be an inexpensive chorus pedal? Presently I can not go the $125.00 route for a BOSS or other high dollar pedal. Has anybody tried the Behringer line of pedals?

[warren0728]

Has anybody tried the Behringer line of pedals?

tim, i have one behringer pedal (DM-100 Distgortion Modeler) and it works fine....however construction wise it is a little cheap. I really haven't used it very much because i have been playing straight into my tube amps with no effects here lately. It's also a PITA to change batteries. Ron has all the behringer pedals so if you want me to try one out for you (or better yet come with me) I would be happy to do so.

ww

[Spudman***]

Tim

I'm not sure what you mean by 'modelers'?

I have found the Vamp2 through a PA system is dynomite! It even sounds good either into the guitar input or effect loop of any of my tube amps.
Are you and the keyboard plugged into the same pa system? Could it be that his low tones are sucking all the voltage or wattage from the system leaving you with none? Or maybe his low end is just burying yours?

Last time I used the Vamp2 at a gig the bass player had to compete with ME! The low end I was pumping was better than his.
This makes me wonder what is really going on with your set up. What are you after tone wise? Clean? Mildly gritty? Skanky tube grind? Metal?

I might suggest using one of the British style amp patches and turn down the gain so that you get a light break up when you push your strings hard. Then put your Monkey between your guitar and Vamp2 and dial tones in with that or use it for a lead boost etc.

PS - Don't be afraid to turn up.

[Tim]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'modelers'?

When I say modelers I mean the Digitech RP 100 or V-Amp2.

I have found the Vamp2 through a PA system is dynomite! It even sounds good either into the guitar input or effect loop of any of my tube amps.
Are you and the keyboard plugged into the same pa system?

Yes we are plugged into the same PA system. It is a four input system. Each single system has one high and one low impedance input. The keyboard and 2 microphones are on the low input side. With my 2 humbucker guitar I use the high impedance. I do this because:

1. I read it somewhere.
2. The guitar breaks-up at low volume with the low impedance.

Could it be that his low tones are sucking all the voltage or wattage from the system leaving you with none? Or maybe his low end is just burying yours?

My thought exactly! I did not know how to explain it. You chose the correct words. The keyboard is sucking all the lows.

Last time I used the Vamp2 at a gig the bass player had to compete with ME! The low end I was pumping was better than his.
This makes me wonder what is really going on with your set up. What are you after tone wise? Clean? Mildly gritty? Skanky tube grind? Metal?

I normally like to play clean tones. Black Face, Tweed. I like a touch of reverb all the time for a filler. I also like to use or echo or delay. I never figured out what the difference is between the two or when to use one or the other. For some songs I like to kick in some chorus especially for the arpeggios mentioned below.

I might suggest using one of the British style amp patches and turn down the gain so that you get a light break up when you push your strings hard. Then put your Monkey between your guitar and Vamp2 and dial tones in with that or use it for a lead boost etc.

It could be that I am dialing in the incorrect EQs. I have downloaded some of the patches you suggested. The results are the same. At home they all sound great. When I team up with the keyboard, I loose all my bass. At times I even have turn the modeler’s treble all the why to “0” and increased the mids and lows fully clockwise. Then the tone has no life.

PS - Don't be afraid to turn up.

I have given this much though. There is one possible reason why this is happening. The key word just might be volume. Keep in mind I play in two person praise and worship mini group (Keyboard player and me). Here is the scenario with using a modeler. Zero on the dial means center or the 12:00 position on the PA system.

Keyboard PA Settings:

Low impedance input
1. Volume = 5
2. Treble = 0
3. Bass = 0
4. Reverb = 4

Guitar PA Settings:

High impedance input
1. Volume = 7
2. Treble = 0
3. Bass = 2
4. Reverb = 4



We play the fast tempo songs first and move into softer and slower type music. Volume depends on the mood and I must be ready to raise or lower the volume quickly. Normally I set the guitar volume between 3-4. If I go above 6 the tone breaks up a lot. When the softer music is played I turn my guitar volume down to 2. I am thinking this low volume is causing me to lose my bass. But if I turn the volume higher, I am over playing both the song and keyboard player. Many times we just play arpeggios while the people meditate so I can not be too loud.

Ideas and/or suggestions will be highly accepted.