Effects???

[Steve206]

Hey folks,,

I am curious about any differences found in single effect pedals versus multi effect pedals versus modeling amplifiers??

I have read the sigs of some of the members and find single pedals along with modeling amps.

Is it safe to think that a multi effect pedal will be lacking in some way, shape or form, in its expression of an effect, versus a single dedicated pedal?

I believe that I have assimilated a train of thought that says that the effects found on modeling amps, are black and white photos compared with the full color, photography of a pedal.



Steve

[thearabianmage]

Well, it depends on a few factors really. . . First off - sound aside - how much do you want to spend, how capable is the electric grid in your house (mine isn't that great, so a million effects pedals is out of the question), how much space do you have, etc.

Multi-effects are cost-effective, space-effective, and electronically-effective (so to speak) but it has its downsides:

Multi-effects are all digital so will naturally sound 'colder' - but then single dedicated effects can be digital as well. And there are downsides to digital units - i.e. considering the physics of 'the crunch', it's impossible to get a 'crunch' through a multi-effects unit. Apparently, the crunch comes from the distortion of the pick scraping the strings, but with multi-effects units, this sound is lost as the signal is digitally translated.

Even though some multi-effects boast hundreds of sounds - it's sort of like satellite television: you only tend to watch a few channels. . .

If your multi-effects unit breaks down, that's your whole rig gone (or my whole rig. . .) as opposed to one pedal in a loop being out of commission. . .

Saying that, my PodXT Pro is pretty awesome for my needs. Excellent sounds - if you can be bothered to learn how to find them (another downside of multi effects: the learning curve)

And as far as buying an amp with effects in it - for me personally it's a case of 'The amp is there to amplify'. Anything else is bonus (some amps have great - though limited - delay and reverb) or a waste of money (some amp's effects are just plain rubbish)

Hope that helps

[helliott***]

Not quite that black and white, at least in my experience. Modelling amps, I can't speak much to. I have an old Line 6 Flextone so it's pretty dated. But I have had very good pro players say the sounds I get from it are like a tube amp.
Pedal-wise, I have a box of mostly good, some excellent, some vintage pedals. They're wonderful, but I have also found new modeling technology has really reduced the gap between multi-effect and individual pedal. Check my Boss ME-50 clips and see what you think. I'm not saying it sounds like a Marshall half-stack, but the difference isn't dramatic.

[Ch0jin]

I guess it also comes down to your usage model. As a bedrooom rockstar it's no drama for me to have bunch of individual FX and mix and match them how and when I want. I could see that being a big pain though if i was gigging. Getting each effect tweaked right and set up before each gig compared to presetting everything into a multFX pedal and off you go, sounds like the multiFX would be the go there. Then there's the sound quality too. Does the tonal advantage of a botique (insert FX type here) translate well to the punters after being mic'd EQ'd and PA'd? or is it only perceptable in a studio environment?

Anyway, I'm just offering my humble 0.2c worth. I'm an FX builder so it's clear what side of the fence I actually sit on.

Oh and I just thoguht of one other thing... I said above that a multiFX seems to make sense to me for a gigging guitarist, but I do like to check out the setups of guitar players I see at gigs, and I'm always a little bummed when instead of an exotic pedalboard I see a multiFX unit. "Wow man, when you stomped on patch C9 you had the guitar screamin!" I guess that's a touch of rock poseur in me. A big part of a band is the image, and gear is part of the image. There was a Mebourne band a few years ago called Preshrunk who were two bass's and drums and had a very unique funk/electro groove thing going on. First time I saw them out I remember thinking "wow, how are they getting all those weird bass sounds?" So after the show I raced up the front to check out their gear and to my delight both guys had very extensive pedalboards, and to add to the mystique, ALL pedals had been stripped of all paint and vendor markings and had been chromed so you couldn't really tell exactly what they used. Withing minutes there was a small group of guys pointing at them "hey I reckon thats a triangle BMP, and that looks like a phase 45" etc etc.

Anyway, i'm clearly avoiding work so....

[wingsdad]

Is it safe to think that a multi effect pedal will be lacking in some way, shape or form, in its expression of an effect, versus a single dedicated pedal?

Generally, yes, but it truly depends on the particular multi-fx unit. I have 2, a Boss ME-50 (like helliott has discovered) and a Behringer Bass V-amp. The ME-50 replaced a pedal board with a full boat of individual pedals, and I went with it because it operates with knobs to adjust parameters much like the individual pedals it can emulate rather than LCD screen scrolling menus, and, IMO, it's far easier to set up preset patches to instantly 'dial in' a sound with a couple of foot clicks than it was to horse around reaching down to adjust various pedals. The Bass V-amp, on the other hand, has guitar & bass amp & cab models that the ME-50 lacks, but I only use the bass amp & cab models. Like the ME-50, there's knobs for various parameters, but you still have to deal with switiching modes via LCD menus, and there's compromises that have to be made in settings. Some fx are OK, but they're far more 'digital' (crystalline) than the ME-50's more analog character, and 'they are what they are', while the ME-50 models actual indivual pedals, most of which, of course, are Boss units, with some Ibanez (i.e., Tube Screamer), EH and others tossed in.

Both units are stereo output, and that's a major plus to use for recording or bi-amping. Some individual pedals are stereo out (usually modulators -- chorus, delays, phasers, etc), but generally, you need to add a signal splitter or A/B switch to a pedal board to go stereo.

I believe that I have assimilated a train of thought that says that the effects found on modeling amps, are black and white photos compared with the full color, photography of a pedal.

Well put, Steve. The onboard fx in most (not all) modeling amps are very, very limited in how the parameters can be tweaked, or in combining fx. They generally don't model or emulate any particular pedal because of that....'they are what they are'. And this is also true of many multi-fx units, such as with my Bass V-amp vs. the ME-50.

In sum, any pedal or multi-fx unit is gonna react differently with the guitar it's used with and the amp they're played thru, whether it's a modeling amp or not. I have a 'sort-of' modeling amp in a Tech 21 Trademark 60, with a so-called 'Fender' Channel and (in general) a 'Brit/Boutique' channel. It's only effect onboard is an Accutronics spring reverb.

[marnold***]

In my case the advantage of the AD30VT's effects is that you could sample a wide range of them and save them directly with your channel settings. The problem is that you could only use one at a time (or some preset combos) and they are a bit of a pain to adjust.

The main advantage of a multi-effect unit has already been stated. Another one is cost. Do I spend potentially thousands of dollars on pedals to get exactly the one I want or do I spend a couple hundred dollars on one pedal that can fake them all pretty well?

The drawback for me is that it can be very complicated to set all of the variables. The units that have a computer interface help with that. I guess that's why I like my EX-7. It's a multi-effect unit, but the effects are limited to seven (eight if you count volume pedal) and everything can be adjusted with the knobs on top.

I think some of the digital argument is overblown. Some digital effects are crap, that's for sure. I don't much like the sound of the Chorus on the AD30VT with any level of distortion. The effects on my Zoom can also sound very cheesy. Conversely, I would challenge people to compare a vintage effect to a good digital recreation in a double-blind test and see what they think. Heck, if Eric Johnson can play a Fender modeling amp, who am I to say anything?

[thearabianmage]

Heck, if Eric Johnson can play a Fender modeling amp, who am I to say anything?

Fair shout! Use your ears and you can't go wrong!

[TS808]

The drawback for me is that it can be very complicated to set all of the variables. The units that have a computer interface help with that. I guess that's why I like my EX-7. It's a multi-effect unit, but the effects are limited to seven (eight if you count volume pedal) and everything can be adjusted with the knobs on top.

I agree....that was one thing that steered me away from some of the multi-effect units. Setting the parameters with menus is much different than a simple interface like on the Boss ME-50. I really like my ME-50; it's the best of both worlds: you can use it on manual mode and just tweak the knobs as you would on regular stomp boxes, and you can also store patches easily without scrolling through menus. I'm very satisfied with the ME-50 and find it to be alot of fun.