New Guitar Designs

[tot_Ou_tard]

Are there any really new guitar designs out there that play well? Strats & LP's are nice, but man 40,000 versions of each?!? I've never seen such a conservative industry.

I was thinking about whether there was another way to amplify a vibrating string other than piezo's and coil-wound magnets.

[Nelskie]

Well, if you're looking for "another way", check out the Line 6 Variax. Some of the world's greatest guitars, all wrapped up in a candy-coated shell:

http://www.line6.com/variax/specifications.html
http://www.line6.com/variax/collection.html

The acoustic models are what really interest me about this axe. There's an old National Steel, a sitar, a banjo, a Martin, etc., along with a bevy of old favorites.

Dare to be different.

[Spudman***]

I think Parker guitars is a great alternative.

http://www.parkerguitars.com/

[tot_Ou_tard]

I think Parker guitars is a great alternative.

http://www.parkerguitars.com/

Yes I agree, but isn't the basic idea a decade old now?

[tot_Ou_tard]

Well, if you're looking for "another way", check out the Line 6 Variax. Some of the world's greatest guitars, all wrapped up in a candy-coated shell:

http://www.line6.com/variax/specifications.html
http://www.line6.com/variax/collection.html

The acoustic models are what really interest me about this axe. There's an old National Steel, a sitar, a banjo, a Martin, etc., along with a bevy of old favorites.

Dare to be different.

The LR Baggs shows up in alot of models. Including the Godin LG-SA which has two coil-splittable humbuckers along with an LR Baggs with onboard preamp for acoustic sounds and a synth out (yes three outputs, mag/acoustic/synth). I guess the difference here (besides the lack of traditional magnetics) is the onboard guitar modeling. Sounds cool.

I wonder what ya do when the standard A/D chip is no longer 24 bit but rather, say, 128 bit. DIY chip mods?

O the future coming down the track...

Are there any other ways of turning a vibration into an electrical signal other than magnetic flux & piezolectrics?

[blogan]

Are there any other ways of turning a vibration into an electrical signal other than magnetic flux & piezolectrics?

How about radar? (U.S. Patent No. 6,492,933)

[tot_Ou_tard]

How about radar? (U.S. Patent No. 6,492,933)

The Radarcaster?

Coool! Now we're talking! How would it work?

What about Quantum Mechanics? You'd have some probablity of playing a different song than the one that you think you are playing.

[tot_Ou_tard]

This is Futureman from Bel Fleck's synthaxe drumitar

http://www.flecktones.com/the_guys/images/Futchsyax.gif

It's not a good picture. He built it himself.

--------------- Added later -----------------------------------------

I'm not kidding Blogan...how might a radar based pickup system work?

What about an optical system? I thought about lasers being shone down the length of the string, or perhaps from the treble end of the fretboard to the bridge, but then the player's hands would get in the way. But if each laser was a different color that'd looked cool.

Is there any way to make a "pickup" that understands the entire vibrating string, rather than being localized in one spot; the bridge, middle, neck etc.
The piezo systems are even more localized--right at the saddle.

[blogan]

I'm not kidding Blogan...how might a radar based pickup system work?

According to the patent's abstract:

A dual channel microwave sensor employs single sideband Doppler techniques in innumerable vibration, motion, and displacement applications. When combined with an active reflector, the sensor provides accurate range and material thickness measurements even in cluttered environments. The active reflector can also be used to transmit multi-channel data to the sensor. The sensor is a homodyne pulse Doppler radar with phasing-type Doppler sideband demodulation having a 4-decade baseband frequency range. Ranging is accomplished by comparing the phase of the Doppler sidebands when phase modulated by an active reflector. The active reflector employs a switch or modulator connected to an antenna or other reflector. In one mode, the active reflector is quadrature modulated to provide SSB reflections. Applications for the low-cost system include a mechanical motion/rotation sensor, a robust security alarm, a throat microphone, a stereo guitar pickup, a direction sensitive cardiac monitor, an electronic dipstick, a material thickness/dielectric sensor, a metal smoothness meter, a non-contact electronic readout, an RFID tag, silent "talking" toys, a passive-emitter data link, a beam interrupter, and a gold nugget finder.

I'm intrigued by the "stereo" part. I would assume that string vibration in one plane would go to one channel and vibration in the normal plane would go to the other. It could be interesting...

[tot_Ou_tard]

According to the patent's abstract:



I'm intrigued by the "stereo" part. I would assume that string vibration in one plane would go to one channel and vibration in the normal plane would go to the other. It could be interesting...

Now that *would* be interesting, you could have two amps: polarized distortion!!!

I still don't completely understand how it works. For example where ARE the pups?

They mention a gold nugget finder. Perhaps one can look for gold nuggets while playing? Jamming for gold!

Another idea:

Could one run current down the strings and read the photons off them?

[tot_Ou_tard]

I think Parker guitars is a great alternative.

http://www.parkerguitars.com/

So I took a look at some of the Parkers online today. I had heard of the fly of course, but didn't realize that they flyified other designs.

Nitefly A = Flied Strat

I love the fly shape but this last one had me in giggles

P36 = Flied Tele

I wouldn't mind owning a Fly.

[jpfeifer]

Good topic. I've always wondered why there weren't more variations on the basic design of the electric guitar. It seems that most guitar makers are sticking to the tried and true designs from the classic guitars that were developed in the 50s and 60s. Even guitars like Paul Reed Smith are essentially combining the best elements from many of these guitars so they're really not all that different in basic design from the ones developed in the 50s.

The only companies that come to mind as departures from the classics would be Parker and Stienberger.

With all the digital modeling technology starting to become really good, I would expect some company to expand on those ideas and develop some new kind of guitar-like instrument with a completely new sound all of it's own. When you think about it, the guitar sounds that we all know and love kind of developed by accident. Leo Fender was simply trying to build a guitar with more sustain and resistant to feedback when he made the Telecaster. His original amp designs were actually kind of an accident too. The amps weren't supposed to distort. He just didn't know enough about circuit design to make them efficient. I'd heard that he hired some Electrical Engineers to re-design his amp circuits for better tube life at one point, but customers complained about the bad sounds from the new designs, so he went back to the original circuits. People had grown accustomed to using the natural distortion that the older amps had. He'd already created the monster and people wanted that sound.

It seems that with all the technology we have today, someone could take a fresh look at the whole thing and design an instrument and amp that would make all kinds of interesting sounds that no one has even heard of. But this would be a huge risk for any company. People want to get the classic sounds and there is already a viable market for people willing to spend money on equipment to do that.

-- Jim

[Robert****]

I had a Steinberger once, very cool instrument. The Trans-trem was fantastic.

How about this one?
http://www.fetishguitars.com/html/eko/auriga/index.html

There are many interesting guitar on that site...

[Tone2TheBone]

About the only cool guitars I've seen that I like and aren't traditional looking are all Bo Diddley's guitars....

[SuperSwede]

And this kind...

[Nelskie]

And so, to "officially" celebrate my 600th post on Fret.Net, I decided to expound a bit on this topic: new guitar designs. Thanks go to Jim for the inspiration.

. . . I've always wondered why there weren't more variations on the basic design of the electric guitar. It seems that most guitar makers are sticking to the tried and true designs from the classic guitars that were developed in the 50s and 60s.

I think that answer is pretty simple: marketing. Today's companies are still feeding off of all of the hard work done by Fender & Gibson years ago. The reason these guitars / designs are still prominent, and relevant to today's music can be equated to the following: 1.) their huge following; 2.) that something similiar in style and design evokes those same feelings of tradition, and steadfast performance; and 3.) they SELL! As for the newer guitar designs, that's part of the reasoning behind manufacturers endorsing popular artists. You think Dean guitars would even be on the roadmap if it weren't for Darrell "Dimebag" Abbott? Probably not. Sadly, Dean is still posthumously milking the Dimebag legacy, and will probably continue to do so for years to come. For whatever reason, that doesn't sit well with me.

The only companies that come to mind as departures from the classics would be Parker and Stienberger

Well, actually, there are a lot of compaines that have designed guitars that are "departures" from the classics. It's just that most have suffered the same fate - limited, or non-existent sales. Besides the two that you've brought up, I'll mention a few more. First, there's Dean Guitars, which feature their trademark split-headstock design, and various metal-themed body styles, as popularized by Dimebag (see pic below). Next, Hamer Guitars, who thanks to the stalwart endorsement skills of Cheap Trick's Rick Nielsen, took guitar design to whole new level back in the late 70's / early 80's (*see Rick's custom below). Hamer does, of course, have two vintage-styled models, one patterned after the Gibson Explorer (which they call a "Standard"), and one after a Les Paul Junior (i.e. "Special"), so yes, they too have absconded basic designs from a major manufacturer. I'd be ashamed if I didn't mention one of my favorite players, The Reverend Billy G., who wields a rather unconventional axe. Originally introduced by Gretsch back in the mid 60's, the "Billy-Bo Jupiter" looks as just as far-out by today's standards. Couple that '57 Chevy Tail-fin look with The Rev's greasy Texas vibe, its a match made in heaven. The last manufacturer I wanted to mention was B.C. Rich, who back in the late 70's / early 80's put out the "Bich" and the "Mockingbird", both very cutting-edge designs for their time. Aerosmith's Joe Perry was the player tapped to bring these two models into vogue, and he did so with zeal on the band's chemically-enhanced '78 tour de force Live Bootleg. Yes, the US-made versions were pricey, but taking a cue from Fender, there were more reasonably priced Japanese-made versions available. Overall, there are some pretty unique designs out there. It's just that there's so many versions, or models similar to the Les Paul, Strat, and Tellie, that anything else gets lost in the shuffle.

It seems that with all the technology we have today, someone could take a fresh look at the whole thing and design an instrument and amp that would make all kinds of interesting sounds that no one has even heard of.

Yeah, that would be cool. But then again, when you have guys like Jeff Beck Eddie Van Halen, Joe Satriani, and Steve Vai doing that with regular guitars and amps, you have to wonder if there'd really be a market for it. One company that has attempted to bring newer technology to the masses is Line 6. They've done some interesting stuff with their Variax guitar line, and their POD was one of the first prominent amp modelers (NOTE: I posted a Line 6 link earlier in this thread, and there are several others in my PODxt thread in the Home Recording section of FN.)

All things considered, I think manufacturers are doing a good job of listening to their market, and coming out with some pretty decent gear. We've touched on a number of those great new products here on FN - the Squier '51, the Epiphone Valve Jr., Vox's Valvetronix amps - all are great pieces of gear within the reach of the average player. Yes, cutting edge technology is great - but in most instances, the hefty pricetag basically relegates it to studio use, or haute couture of the rich and famous.

Which ultimately brings us back to the same question - why don't companies try / market some new designs? And that answer, too, is simple: Because they make plenty of money selling the "old stuff". If it ain't broke, it don't need fixin'!

[Katastrophe]

Also, think of the sheer numbers of our guitar heroes that play traditionally designed guitars... On Strats you have such diversity, from Buddy Holly to Yngwie. On the Les Paul you have The Man, Les Paul himself, to Joe Perry, to Zakk Wylde. These players endorse their respective guitars, and endorsements sell.

A number of different designs came out in the 80's from Ibanez, Jackson/Charvel, Steinberger, ESP, Kramer and others, as a reflection of the more "flashy" styles of music that era. As the 90's kicked into high gear, dayglo holographic paint jobs went out of fashion, and guitarists turned to a more traditional or "vintage" look to their instruments. It became kinda hard to get into a Pearl Jam tribute band playing a dayglo polkadot reverse headstock Floyd Rose shredderiffic masterblaster.

However, what goes around comes around... With the resurgence in popularity of '80s music, and NuMetal (please pronounce that with the umlauts), solos are back in fashion in rock music, and more and more guitars are "built for speed." I'll bet we'll start seeing more "flash" and some different designs again, and in greater numbers.

[jpfeifer]

Hi Nelskie,

Great response. Yes, I think you're right. If anything the market for the more traditional look and sound of the classic amps and guitars is more hot today than it ever was.

I have several guitar students that are teenage kids, and their dream guitars are still the same guitars that I craved at their age, Les Pauls, 335s, Strats, etc. ... as a matter of fact, I still crave these guitars!

If anything, I think that manufacturers are putting out better value for the dollar today than they ever have. I would have been floored if I could have bought something for $300 bucks when I was 15 that sounded as good as the Line6 or Valvetronix amps in that price range. These things rock! When I was 15, I was playing crappy solid state amps (with no tube modeling circuitry) with only a Big Muff pedal to imitate a real tube amp. The guitars are also a better value for the dollar today than the past. You can get an inexpensive Strat ... and it has a 4-bolt neck! Imagine that. It wasn't always the case.

Speaking of Hamer, I actually own a Hamer Newport. It's probably the best made guitar that I own in terms of workmanship and overall design. I would buy another Hamer in a heartbeat (at least the ones made in the US)

Yeah, I actually don't mind that the manufaturers are sticking to classics. Those are the sounds that I like too.

But sooner or later, there will be something that comes along that takes the electric guitar (as we know it today) to the next level. I don't think it will be just the look of the guitar, but in the way it functions and how it reacts to the player. Who knows.

-- Jim

[Nelskie]

Kat - Yes, we can be thankful that guitar solos are coming back into style. For awhile there, grunge had all but put an end to the art of playing a solo.

When I was 15, I was playing crappy solid state amps (with no tube modeling circuitry) with only a Big Muff pedal to imitate a real tube amp.

Hey, I walked a mile in those shoes, too. My first rig was a Crate hand-me-down (in one of the original wood crate-type cabinets), with an original Ibanez TS-808 Tube Screamer in front. I played that for several years before "upgrading" to a 100W Crate with (2) 12" speakers. I changed the factory speakers out, and put in Peavey Scorpions. Whoa!

But sooner or later, there will be something that comes along that takes the electric guitar (as we know it today) to the next level. I don't think it will be just the look of the guitar, but in the way it functions and how it reacts to the player. Who knows.

Most definitely. It's only a matter of time. But that product, or at least off-shoots of that same technology, will have to be readily available to to the masses. Or like so much new technology, it'll die a slow, painful death in the hands of a fortunate few.