The Value of the Dot

[just strum]

I stumbled on this clip a while back and happen to come across it today. I've sung the praises of the Epi Dot and feel it's one of the best values out there today (new or used).

Here's a good short clip that I believe supports that

[ZMAN]

I agree that the Dot and it's bling brother the Sheraton are great value for the money. I am lucky enough to own the Sheraton and the ES335. I have not owned a Dot. I like the extra binding etc.
If you notice the clip the player seems to stumble a little when he picks up the Dot, and is a lot smoother with the Gibby, there could be a lot of factors affecting that though. Tone wise they are hard to tell apart. But when you factor in the cost difference of almost a factor of 8 to 10 the Dot is far ahead.
With the Sheraton and the 335 the necks are quite different and the strength of the pickups is much greater with the 335.
I would say if you want a semi hollowbody and you don't want to pay for the Gibson headstock and hype, the Dot is the answer. If you want a guitar that is 98% of the Gibson get an Elitist Dot.
The Korean Dots and Sheratons especially the Samick made are very close to Japan quality. I personally have not had any experience with the Chinese models but I am sure they will be getting very close by now.
And if you get a dot and upgrade the electronics, and pickups you will have one killer guitar.

[just strum]

I noticed the stumbling too and my first thought is the necks are different. If so, them moving back and forth between one guitar and the other may come into play. I certainly wouldn't say that the Dot is as good as a 335, but when you compare cost, I think the Dot is the better value. As for upgrades, yes you can improve on the Dot and still be dollars ahead. As long as you start with a well built Dot, you have nothing to lose.

I've played the Dot and the 335 side by side and the Dot is impressive. Mine is a 2nd or B stock and I had it for a couple of months before a friend noticed it stamped on the back of the head. The only thing I can find wrong with it is there appears to be a flaw in the binding. Since it was previously owned by Rocket, maybe he could shed some light on that subject. However, it really doesn't matter because I thoroughly enjoy the guitar.

I think my enthusiasm might also be that I am completely sold on the 335 style guitar and that enthusiasm continues to grow.

[Rocket]

I bought that Dot to be a ticket-stub prize for a charity fundraiser for Pete Harris. A bunch of us Fla musicians were trying our best to offset some of the cost of Pete's brain cancer chemo & outstanding medical costs. The person that bid on the Dot never claimed it. I held on to it for over a year after Pete died and made every effort to contact the winning bidder to no avail. We finally just considered the bid as a donation.
It's a complete mystery as to how Strum came to own it!

[ZMAN]

Actually the only reason I have a 335 is that a very close friend of 40 years got sick and had to leave the work force very early. He needed cash to get back on his feet and I offered to buy the guitar from him. We have an agreement that if he ever wants the guitar back he can give me the money.
Since I have owned it I had a complete pro set up done on it and now it is abolutely amazing. The action is really light and precise. I think that is what you get from a guitar like that. There is less opportunity to "stumble" with them because the action is so good and the pickups are so sensitive, so it is easier to make a note resonate. I hope I am getting my point across.
The other thing about the 335 is that the volume controls compared to the Sheraton seem to have twice as much volume with complete clarity. That is why I say, changing pickups in the Dot will be a big improvement but the rest of the electronics will make the difference.
And B stock unlike blemised tires usually is only cosmetic and doesn't affect playability or tone.

[wingsdad]

.... The other thing about the 335 is that the volume controls compared to the Sheraton seem to have twice as much volume with complete clarity. That is why I say, changing pickups in the Dot will be a big improvement but the rest of the electronics will make the difference. ...

I got really lucky with my '01 Sheraton II. Yes, it's one of the last Samick-Korea made ones, as Samick shut down Korea & moved to Indonesia around 02. (They make some Epis there now; one run recently is the '08 EJ-160E John Lennon).

Got it in '04 for a great price. (i'll just say that Fair Market Value at that time was $400). Turned out to be greater, when I needed to get the crappy toggle switch replaced, and check some scratchiness in the pots, by my dealer, who sold me the guitar.

The tech, who's done setup and fixup work on my guitars for the past 10 years, goes in and fishes things out.

Discovers that the previous owner had done a little modding on his own, did a crummy soldering job, so hated what the guitar sounded like, not working as well as it did before he modded it, and decided to trade it in.

The mods?

He'd replaced the stock Epi pots with DiMarzio Custom Tapers (audio), and the pups with a set of Gibson Classic 57's. His soldering work on the toggle and one of the pots had come loose.

$15 bucks with a new Switchcraft toggle and...woo-hoo.:

[Rocket]

Yup... replacing stock electric hardware is a must with all Epiphone electrics. Seems like they fish them out of the Gibson reject bin and throw them in the Epi's. It's the most common complaint with them... and the most cost-effective fix.

[just strum]

Seems like they fish them out of the Gibson reject bin and throw them in the Epi's. It's the most common complaint with them... and the most cost-effective fix.

Whether it's fact of fiction, that's what I heard they actually come from. I've heard it from a couple of sources, of course it could be urban legend. Maybe I will call my Philippine Gibson CS rep and see what he has to say.

[just strum]

Yup... replacing stock electric hardware is a must with all Epiphone electrics. Seems like they fish them out of the Gibson reject bin and throw them in the Epi's. It's the most common complaint with them... and the most cost-effective fix.

Speaking of this mod, does anyone have a good, detailed clip of doing a pup and pot mod to an 335 style guitar? I was tipped on one that is okay, but I'm looking for some good instructional video on performing the mod on a semi HB.

[Rocket]

Maybe I will call my Philippine Gibson CS rep and see what he has to say.

Make sure you clearly communicate to him exactly what you want to hear so he'll know what to tell you.

[ZMAN]

Don't get me started on switches. I even wrote a letter to Epiphone customer service about the selector switches. I have replace 3 of them two on the two Sheratons I owned and one on a brand new Elititst Les Paul.
The Elitist is "supposed" to have American electronics but I guess that didn't include the switch. Only one was under warranty. I put in Gibson switches.
I have had an SG for 40 years and the switch is perfect.
I also have a 2001 Samick Sheraton. Very well made guitars. Still all stock.

[Katastrophe]

I've played Sheratons and Casinos, but oddly enough never a Dot. The Sheraton I played most recently was an excellent guitar.

If I weren't in the grip of deathGAS for a Gretsch, I would be drooling for a Sheraton. And a Tele. And an LP.

[Duff]

I've played Dot's that really turned me on, leading me to try out other similar designs within my price range.

I discovered that I love Sheratons, then I played an Artcore Ibanez right after playing a Dot, Sheraton, and then the AS73. Same amp, same settings method. Based on my quick assessment I took the Ibanez artcore as73 cherry thransparent with no pickguard but full binding home and have been happy ever since. Even bought the extra nice Ibanez hard shell case specifically for the Artcore semi hollow guitars.

So, if you are looking at a semi hollow traditional style guitar, don't overlook the Ibanez Artcores or dismiss them as "off the list" without at least playing one and listening to it. The neck is awesome and I can't say enough great about the fine guitar, including that I really like the stock Ibanez humbuckers.

Duffy

[warren0728]

So, if you are looking at a semi hollow traditional style guitar, don't overlook the Ibanez Artcores or dismiss them as "off the list" without at least playing one and listening to it. The neck is awesome and I can't say enough great about the fine guitar, including that I really like the stock Ibanez humbuckers.

i have to agree....i've said it before but i really love my artcore....beautiful....hi quality....and great sounding....at a very reasonable cost! :

ww

[wingsdad]

I'll agree that the Ibanez Artcores are excellent bang for the buck, at about $100-$200 less than comparable Epiphones (new) and their stock pickups are better than most for guitars in their price range.

I had an AS73 a few years ago and it was everything that Duff says it is, but I traded it to get my Epi Sheraton II, the Dot Dressed For The Prom. It's a semi-hollow:
AS73
Epi Dot
Epi Sheraton II

Warren's AF75, on the other hand, is a true hollow body (without the 'tone block' a semi-hollow has under the hood). I've tried one out many times at my Local GAS Station. Most hollows are thicker-bodied, a/k/a 'jazz-box' guitars while this one is thinner, like the AS73. The sound will be generally more 'airy', with more acoustic resonance than a semi-hollow. It may also be susceptible to feedback at high volumes played in close proximity to your amp or in a band/live setting. (I have an Epi Casino, a true thin hollow-body, and it will howl like a wolf when given that chance...but it's got P-90 pickups, making it a totally different bird than the others here, humbucker-loaded).
AF75
Excuse me for this link to my least-favorite online merchant, but it's the fastest place I could find one that's not an Elitist:
Epi Casino

The Epi Wildkat Sturm has, I like to characterize as a single-cut Dot with P-90's and a Bigsby...kind of a cross between a Dot & a Casino, with a twist.
Epi Wildkat

Gee...that narrowed things down for you, didn't it?

You'll have to try them out to compare their sounds. If you live within range of a Cuitar Center, they may have all of them. Just be prepared for whomever waits on you to tell you what they think you should buy, instead of helping you choose what you want to buy. (I love GC, too. my favorite place to mess with the hired help's heads )

[warren0728]

Warren's AF75, on the other hand, is a true hollow body (without the 'tone block' a semi-hollow has under the hood). I've tried one out many times at my Local GAS Station. Most hollows are thicker-bodied, a/k/a 'jazz-box' guitars while this one is thinner, like the AS73. The sound will be generally more 'airy', with more acoustic resonance than a semi-hollow. It may also be susceptible to feedback at high volumes played in close proximity to your amp or in a band/live setting.

this is true....it sounds really good played acoustically. There is definitely more feedback issues than with a semi-hollowbody....since i only play at home i have more control and don't have any problems with the feedback....in fact....controlled feedback can be a beautiful thing....

bottom line....play a bunch and choose the one that feels right to you! :

ww

[sunvalleylaw]

If you are looking, be sure to check out the Hagstrom Viking, Hagstrom's take off on the design. And let me know if you are interested. I know a good dealer. There are some good clips linked here: http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php?t=8598&page=3 I am a 335 style believer now, thanks in part to Strum's insistence that I check them out.

[Duff]

This is gaseous. Who owns this?

I still love my cherry AS73 that I got at a good deal at GC during a sale. Sale this weekend too.

[wingsdad]

This is gaseous. Who owns this?

Strum's got one looks just like it, only a 'more mature' 'Kat.
B. Krashpad has a 'bleached blonde' version.