Distortion/Overdrive - effective use

[sunvalleylaw]

I did a search and did not come up with this specific discussion. "How do you like to use distortion and overdrive, and what do you find to be effective in your playing?"

Here are some of my thoughts, but I am really just a rookie still, so I am just throwing this out there. I have used my Bad Monkey a lot, both for rhythm and lead, and it warms up my tones quite a bit. For lead when I want a bit more bite, I like to add my distortion pedal. Sometimes, I use the DS-1 in combination with my Bad Monkey, the Monkey coming later in the chain, so that the DS-1 provides some bite, but the Monkey smoothes it out a bit. When I do that, I back off the level of the DS-1 a bit to avoid too big a volume change when I kick it on.

When I want fuzz, I use my EH Little Big Muff, but that pedal has to be on its own. It does not like to play with others, that well, though I have forced it to play with the Bad Monkey when it is time to get really loud.


When I get my new BYOC v.2 Mouse, aka the Rabid Rodent, I may have to re-think all of this, as the Rodent will have a bunch of distortion and overdrive options within it, and may not want to play along with the Bad Monkey.

Please share thoughts on the above, or just say what you like to do to use the overdrive and distortion portion of your pedal chain effectively.

[ZMAN]

Since I only play at home I rarely get my amps to levels where their natural distortion can come into play. I find that it makes my playing a lot easier, and I can get some really cool tones that I woud have to play my amp at 11 to achieve, and at home levels.
I use several Fulltone pedals, I have a Fulldrive II, an OCD, a Fat boost, the mini deja vibe, and for the distortion I go with the Boss DS1. I have three amps set up in my music room, a Blues Junior special edition Jensen, a Blues Deluxe reissue and a 65 Deluxe Reverb. I can coax some pretty distorted tones by varying the guitar level and the output on the pedals. I really don't ever play without pedals. Even when I play clean tones I ususally use some sort of boost as well.

[Robert****]

I use both an overdrive and distortion. Usually OD for rhythm, then Distortion for leads. Sometimes both to totally over the top...

[Spudman***]

What you'll have to decide with that new pedal is what mode you are going to use it in most of the time and then decide where to put it.

For the first few weeks after you get it take all your other dirt boxes out of your chain (you already know what those do and sound like right?), find the setting you like best on the new pedal and then think about how you want to augment what it does. What other sound do you need or want? Then, remembering what your other dirt pedals do, first start by envisioning what would happen if you put the DS1 before the Rodent - then after the Rodent. Do the same with the BM and then do the same with all 3 in the chain.

Now put your vision into action and hook them up the way you envision them. Doesn't sound like you thought? That's okay just leave them for a week or two in those positions and keep fiddling with them. After 2 weeks and it still doesn't sound right then swap things around. Still remember to envision how they might sound before making the swaps. This will help you to become more aware with what each pedal brings to the game.

[tunghaichuan***]

Steve,

Since I have both a Bad Monkey and a DS-1, I hooked them up to to try them out.

I patched them into this amp:

http://www.diycustomamps.com/images/18w/ef86_18W1.jpg

I also put my new DOD Bi-Fet preamp at the front of the chain, followed by the BM and finally the DS-1. The DOD is a clean boost, it just adds gain without distortion. It can make the output signal louder when using single coils.

I found that I was able to get a nice heavy distortion sound driving the DS-1 with the BM. It was less noisy than I thought it would be, even with the gain controls on both pedals maxed out. Maybe a tad on the fuzzy side, but that is probably due to some harshness/fizziness on the part of the DS-1.

Next I tried the DOD driving the BM and then the DS-1. I didn't like the sounds I was getting with this setup. Too bassy, even with the DOD's tone control backed off.

I tried the BM as a clean boost: gain all the way down, level all the way up. On my pedal, there always was some dirt, even with the amp turned down. So I can't really say that the BM works as a "clean boost" more like a dirty boost. It did sound pretty good however, it added to the OD's complexity. However, there was a lot of noise using the pedal like this. It sounded pretty good driving the DS-1, but there was a lot of noise coming out of that setup.

To contrast, I've used a stock BD-2 Blues Driver as a clean boost and I find this is where the pedal shines. It sounds only OK stock as an OD pedal. Much like the DOD, when the BD-2 is set up as a clean boost it only boosts the level, there is no dirt coming out of the pedal.

To answer your question: I use OD sounds for mainly crunch/rhythm. They tend not to have enough gain for leads, for me. I like distortion pedals for leads or even heavy power chord "chugga" type rhythms.

OTOH, one of the best lead setups I had was an original TS-808 Tube Screamer with a Boss Compressor in front of it. It really smoothed out the tone, made it very liquid. Compressors are great for that: they don't add gain, but they smooth out the response of the pedal and add sustain. Sometimes I think that, really guitar players want sustain more than mondo gain. Just another idea to check out.

tung

[sunvalleylaw]

Spud, good thoughts, Tung, I will try that same procedure while I wait for the Rodent to get here, and thanks a lot for your thoughts. I am not a very good experimenter (is that a word) and tend to find one thing I like and just stay there.

I also am interested in anyone's views re: setting up to get some good, crunch rhythm and lead saturation, but avoid oversaturating to the point of mush and/or shrill fizz/fuzz. And of course, live is different than at home. I guess so far the bottom line is experiment, experiment, experiment. But any parameters or techniques that can be shared would be appreciated.

[Spudman***]

OTOH, one of the best lead setups I had was an original TS-808 Tube Screamer with a Boss Compressor in front of it. It really smoothed out the tone, made it very liquid.
tung

Me too. I had an MXR Dyna Comp in front of my vintage TS9 for a long long time. Great sound and control. Eventually I wanted more hair to my dirt so I went with anther dirt pedal in font of the TS9 and those two together provided plenty of compression.

[Andy]

I generally overdrive my amps, I always have. but ofcourse at lower volumes this doesn't work so well.

If I'm using pedals I also put a dyna comp in front of the overdrive pedal.
I often use it for a lead boost , I like that it not only gives the notes extra punch but increases sustain considerably and I like that it doesn't totaly change my tone like a second overdrive/distortion can.

I was sorta limited to fuzz pedals back in the 70's and couldn't wait to get rid of them.So I won't share too much opinion on that type of effect.
other than I consider it an effect, not than an overdrive/distortion substitute. It's ironic that fuzz effects are so hugely popular these days to me, but they obviously have their place....

I remember a time when I couldn't even give away my big muff.(wish I would have kept it, along with several other peices of EH gear now):

[sunvalleylaw]

When you say you generally overdrive your amps, are you doing this with the amp itself or with a overdrive pedal? By your second sentence, it appears you are using an overdrive pedal at least part of the time.

My newbie approach has been to use my Bad Monkey, on warmer rhythm settings, a lot, and add some sort of distortion (usually the DS-1, but set so it does not totally crank my volume, but add bite only) for leads. I adjust the level to get the volume necessary for the lead to be heard over the band. The Bad Monkey has always come after the DS-1 in the chain, as it seemed to smooth it out some. I now have a new distortion pedal, based on a BYOC rat clone, that Duhvoodooman built for me, and I will have to re-think all of the above.

I have a fuzz, but I use it on its own, only when I am wanting that kind of sound. I don't have a compressor. May have to look into that.

Thank you for posting on the topic. I am always looking for ways to learn good techniques.

[tunghaichuan***]

To add to the discussion:

When using just a tube amp, there are three ways to get overdrive/distortion.

The first way is to have a relatively clean preamp signal driving the power tubes into distortion, i.e, power tube distortion. This is the classic blues sound. This method is very dynamic, you turn the down the volume knob on the guitar and the sound cleans up. You play softer, the amp is cleaner; when you dig in the amp overdrives. The downside is that the amp is putting out full power so it is very loud. It is hard to get lower volume leves with this method and retain the OD characteristics. This is generally associated with lower wattage amps like Fender Champs, Tweed Deluxes, etc.

The next way is to distort the preamp and have it drive a relatively clean output section. This is the metal sound. This type of distortion generally isn't very dynamic but can sound very good with well designed circuitry. Amps in this catagory generally have high gain preamps and high wattage power amps like Soldano SLOs, Mesa Rectos, Peavey 5150s and modern high-gain Marshalls. The power amp will be pushed into distortion at high volumes and will color the tone, but generally these types of amps run the power amp clean.

The last way is to have both: preamp distortion and power amp distortion. Vintage Marshalls are a good example of this: dirty preamp driving a power amp to distortion. The Trainwreck amps are also an example of this: Ken Fischer designed his amps to distort in a specific order starting with the preamp, then the phase inverter, then the power section. His genius was in building an tweaking an amp that would give gobs of harmonic distortion and coming very close to becoming unstable, yet never crossing the line.

The problem with using pedals to get OD or distortion is that they are mainly simulators: they are an approximation of the tube sound but have no tubes. This isn't to say that pedals sound bad as there are some very good sounding pedal OD/distortion pedals.

Also, a tube amp's sound is dependent on what type of tubes are being used, the circuit and what type of transformers. There are some very bad sounding all tube amps.

tung

[Andy]

sorry, I could have been clearer on what I meant by overdriving the amp.

I prefer the power tube saturation that you get with an amp atleast 1/2 way cranked. Now that means loud even with a 5w amp. but thats my overdrive of choice.
unfortunately that is often too loud for many situations so I find myself using an overdrive pedal more often, to boost the amp into overdrive at a lower volume.

I personally don't like the sound of an amp using strickly the pregain for distortion, but I understand that is popular with some genres of music

The pedal I use most often for overdrive is a Fulltone OCD

[Tone2TheBone]

For me it depends on what amp I'm using. The Marshall has a gain stage so I generally run that with some amount of grit/overdrive. Like Robert I'll add a pedal to that signal for over the top lead distortion. My new Maxon SD-9 clone is perfect for that. On the Fender amp I'll just run one distortion/od pedal but I mostly play clean on that one or turn it up loud for natural overdrive.