Sheraton

[evenkeel]

Just spotted a Sheraton, I think II, in a local pawn shop. Looks to be in good, not great shape. Red wine sunburst, gold hardware, all the usual inlays. Needs a good cleaning, the pickguard has some very light scratches and the hardware has a bit of tarnish. Neck looks to be spot on. No scratches in the wood. Have not played it so have no idea re: electronics. $499 w/ a hardcase. I'm guessing they would probably let it go for $400. Seems ok but not a bargain.

I'm not interested in buying, just curious as to value.

[ZMAN]

Are you sure it is not a dot deluxe. I don't remember a wine red burst in the Sheraton. Of course not to say that there isn't a special edition out there.
If it is a Sheraton it would have a very detailed headstock with a vine on it.
and full inlays in the neck. Depending on what year and country of origin, it might be a diamond in the rough. I would say at 400 to 450 with the hardshell case it might be a decent guitar.
The gold hardware is more of a goldtone, and comes off easily, but don't sweat that. If is is a Sammick built it will be one fine Guitar. The first digit of the Serial will be an S.
A lot of guys will use them as a base for a budget 335 by changing the electronics and pickups. And remember Epiphone had the 335 body style long before Gibson.
I personally like them better than the Dot because they have all the extra binding. The necks are really nice and they play smooth as silk.
I have owned two. One in Ebony and one I still own in Natural. I also own a Gibby 335 in ebony and the Sherri stacks up very well with the 335.

[sunvalleylaw]

Just for comparison as to value, a guy could get a new Hagstrom Vik (certainly "B" stock, and maybe a cherry "A" stock), likely with a good guardian hardshell case for $499 or less, to your door, through our friend Tim Maurery.

[Spudman***]

Just for comparison as to value, a guy could get a new Hagstrom Vik (certainly "B" stock, and maybe a cherry "A" stock), likely with a good guardian hardshell case for $499 or less, to your door, through our friend Tim Maurery.

More like $435 for the Viking Standard with case shipped. I'd take one over a 335 for that price but a good Sheraton with a case for that price would be a fair deal.

[wingsdad]

The current Sheraton II came out as a reissue around 1997, modifying (or modernizing) the original Sheraton, which went out of production in 1994. They both have the inlay work ZMAN describes, but the SII has full-sized humbuckers and a stop (stud) tailpiece like a 335. Sheratons had narrower 'mini-humbuckers', sometimes called called New York pickups, probably since Epiphone was originally in NYC before bought by Gibson. The discontinued Elitist Sheraton and USA John Lee Hooker Sheraton had the NY pups and the stud tailpiece. The USA John Lee Hooker '64 Limited Edition model Sheraton (also disco'd) was a model truer to the original Sheraton with those pickups and the other distinguishing design element, a harp (trapeze) type 'frequensator' tailpiece. Don't know what that word means, but it sounds like something a venerable bluesman like Hooker might have concocted. Sheratons and Sheraton II's come in Ebony, Vintage Sunburst and Natural, and all, regardless of finish, have a nicely bound (to match the fretboard & body bindings) tortoise pickguard.

Here's my '01 Samick-Korea made Sheraton II. Can't tell from the pics, of course, but it's been modded with a set of Gibson Classic 57 buckers, DiMarzio Audio Taper 500K pots and a gold-capped Switchcraft toggle. I also swapped the original amber bell knobs with the gold ones from my Casino. Just to confuse everyone even more, you'll notice the red label inside the body just calls it a 'Sheraton', no II. That Gibson Truss Rod Cover is original, the '01's doing that to simulate a Gibson Epiphone Sheraton made from 1958-1970. New ones have the Epiphone 'Horseshoe E' logo. I took that E off my pickguard and tucked it away.







As for value?

It looks like the Sheraton II has just had a price increase. I get the American Musical Supply quarterly catalog, and the Fall catalog that came this week shows the SII and Casino have gone up from the Summer catalog's $599 to $699 without a case. EDIT: The AMS website has the Casino & Sheraton II at this same new price and one ebony for $549? The MF site has the Casino at $699 as well as the high-end Elitist and a John Lennon Revolution model, and the Elitist Sheraton but no Sheraton II? 40-50% of current new street price is one benchmark to base a used price on. Another would be Vintage Guitar Mag's Price Guide, and the '08 edition has a '97-2005 SII in Excellent condition at a low of $475 to a high of $500.

For what I got mine for, 2nd hand? I'm pretty happy. Beats the stock market. It's a helluva guitar and I'd hate to have to part with it. Maybe if I finally make my last little mod to it -- a set of Gold 'Imperial' keys for just that much more 'vintage' touch-- I'll be stuck with it.

That red wine suburst finish color, though....maybe you spotted a Riviera? Riviera reissues were made from '03-'06 in Korea, and the VGM PG '08 has it at $375-$450. Looks like a cross between a Sheraton (body, pickups) and a Casino (fingerboard & headstock, and hollow, not semi-hollow body) and that red was a Riviera color. They still make Rivieras, but in Limited Editions, with various pickups from humbuckers to P90's. There's a fascinating (or GAS-inating) one, Riviera P93 Limited Edition for $499, with 3 P90's and a Bigsby in wine red that I spotted at MF when checking the Casino & Sheraton II pricing that's not on the Epi website, where they show a GAS-inating Nick Velensi Limited Edition Riviera with Gibson P94 (hotter, humbucker-shaped blackface P90) pups and the old Sheraton's 'frequensator' trapeze tailpiece.

[Geraint Jones]

Here`s my 1987 { i think } Sheraton . Bought with the prooceeds from my first car,


Most of its life was spent under a bed in a case until i stopped perambulating.

ps i only wanted to try uploading a photo

[Geraint Jones]

oooh yes it worked , the Tele will be next

[sunvalleylaw]

oooh yes it worked , the Tele will be next

Cool GJ! Now you can use the little button up above the "Go advanced" reply box with a little pic of the mountain in it to insert a direct link to the pic, and it will show up in the thread! :

[Gregzy]

A few months back I posted this in another forum as a sort of short history of the Sheraton. I'm going to add that "Wine Red" was a standard color (signified by "WR" after the model name on the interior label) on the Matsumoku-made Sheratons of 1980-1988 and cherry red was offered for a very short period of time on the Korean/Samick-made Sheratons c.1994 and the sunburst colorations offered on both the Matsumoku (1980-1988 Japanese) and Samick (1986-1998 Korean) have a definite reddish hue. The sunburst of more-recent years is the more Gibson-esque dark brown to yellow coloration.

1980s Matsumoku-made Sheraton in "Wine Red" :


http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/k...gzy/3170_1.jpg

"OK...before we go any further here's a little history lesson...The original Kalamazoo-made Sheraton model came along in 1958 as an "upgrade' to the Gibson ES-335 that was introduced in the spring of 1958 and made use of component parts Gibson received when it bought Epiphone in 1957...parts such as the New York single coil pickups and Frequensator tail pieces...

1959 Sheraton:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/k...gzy/cc65_3.jpg

By 1961 the supply of original Epiphone parts had been exhausted and this resulted in a re-design of some of the Epiphone models including the Sheraton. The re-design included replacing the New York single coil pickups with the then-new "PAF Mini Humbucker" pickups which had been designed to fit in the rout of the New York single coil. By the way, these were NEVER called "New York Mini Humbuckers" until the late 1990s when some clueless putz in Epiphone marketing used that phrase in catalog copy... perhaps in attempts to validate and legitimize the rather generic-sounding Asian pickups by alluding to a possible USA historical connection.

1963 Sheraton:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/k...zy/6127_12.jpg


The Sheraton was made through-out the 1960's until domestic Epiphone production ended in August of 1970 (Kalamazoo Epiphones were still shipped into very early 1971). During their production run they were offered with both the Frequensator tail piece and various vibratos such as Bigsbys and Epiphone's Vibra-Tone and always had Mini Humbuckers with the exception of the first four years or so when they had two New York single coils.

In about 1975 in response to the improving quality of Japanese guitars and Gibson's inability to sell instruments within Japan (due to trade restrictions and cost-prohibiting tariffs and taxation) Gibson contracted with Matsumoku, the parent company of the Aria and other Asian brands and Yamano Music-Japanese music shop chain and distributor of Gibsons and Epiphones in Japan- to market a line of higher-end guitars initially limited to the domestic Japanese market. Gibson had previously contracted with Matsumoku to make the first Japanese-made Epiphones in 1971 but this line of instruments were markedly lower in quality to the new line of thin lines which included a Casino, a Riviera, a Sheraton and an Emperor. By about 1979 the line had proved popular and distribution was extended world-wide though there were still some instruments made that were exclusive to the Japanese market. These Sheratons were only offered with full-sized humbuckers. Initially they were also only offered with a stop tail piece but later in the run models with Frequensators were also offered.

Early 80s Matsumoku-made Sheraton :

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/k...n-sb-80s-2.jpg


In 1986 Henry J. and company bought Gibson and decided to offer a line of Korean-made Epiphones. With bottom-line increasing cost-cutting in place, one of the first of these models was the "Sheraton II" which was only offered with full-sized humbuckers and stop tail pieces and was named the "Sheraton II" to avoid confusion with the Matsumoku-made Sheraton that was still in production. Another distinction was the use of the "Epiphone By Gibson" headstock logos on the Korean-made Epiphones. This early Korean-made line was made by Samick.

In 1987 Terada began to make a Japanese-exclusive line of Epiphones and their line also included a Sheraton model though again it was only offered with full-sized humbuckers:

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/k...dssheraton.jpg


In 1993/1994 to celebrate 100 years of Epiphone and Gibson, Gibson made a limited run of some of the original Epiphone models such as the Riviera, Sheraton and Emperor and this time the Epiphone models had mini humbuckers. These were made in Nashville and Bozeman and had nitro-cellulose finishes.

Also in about 1994 Epiphone began to use contract factories in Korea such as Peerless ("R" alpha prefix in serial number) Saein ("I" alpha prefix), Unsung ("U" alpha prefix), as well as the original Samick production ("S" alpha prefix) though by 1998 Samick ran into financial problems and discontinued production for a few years while getting back on track. I've never seen a Peerless-made Sheraton but the other factories made them. There may be a slight superiority of the earlier Samick-made Sheratons but this superiority is negligible at best.

In about 1996/97 Epiphone offered a John Lee Hooker Sheraton as part of their "USA Series" which was actually made in Japan (and "assembled" in Nashville). There had also been a Korean-made Hooker Sheraton with goofy graphics. The Terada-made Hooker Sheratons were offered with either a stop tail piece (called "The '64 Sheraton II") or a Frequnsator tail piece (called The '64 Sheraton I) and came with a nitro-cellulose finish. Following the Hooker Sheraton Epiphone came out with the Elite (later the Elitist) Sheratons with mini humbuckers and Frequensators but with polyurethane finishes.

The contract factories continued making Sheratons into the early 2000s and now there's a transition to all-Chinese production of Epiphone guitars. So...for the most part the "Sheraton II" refers to a Korean-made Sheraton.

The vintage Sheratons (1958-1970) have become quite pricey (>$5K) but the Matsumoku Sheratons from the 80s are very good guitars for the money and can be had for under $800. The early Samick-made Korean and Korean contract factory-made Sheratons can be had for well under $600. Generally good values for the money but as with anything, the quality does fluctuate and every guitar has to be examined on its own merits. I personally won't consider anything made in China so you do so at your own peril...


Greg
__________________
Step on the gas and wipe that tear away...

************************************************** ********


I'm tossing this out there as just a little history and background of the Sheraton. Hope someone finds it of use.

I just noticed that the photo I used to depict an '80s Matsumoku Sheraton is actually a photo of a '90s era Terada-made Sheraton but they are very similar and as soon as I can look up another 80's Matsumoku Sheraton photo I'll change it.

Earlier in the thread there was some speculation as to the origins of the "Frequensator Tailpiece" The Frequensator dates back to the late 1930s when it was the brain child of a guy named "Herb Sunshine" who at the time was a salesman for Epiphone. The idea being compensation for the different string tension resulting from different string thickness and length. How effective in practice? Debatable...but it did work as a marketing tool. The "horse shoe "E" is of course an "epsilon", the Greek alpha character for the letter "E".

Greg

[just strum]

Greg,

Where would you put the electronics of the Sheraton over that past 10 years? How do they differ from the Dot?

[markb]

I wouldn't think there's any difference in electronics. Epiphone seem to use the same pickups across their range. The stock pickups definitely got better at some point (2001?). They usually use their alnico 57 Classic humbuckers in both positions in the semis.

[Gregzy]

I wouldn't think there's any difference in electronics. Epiphone seem to use the same pickups across their range. The stock pickups definitely got better at some point (2001?). They usually use their alnico 57 Classic humbuckers in both positions in the semis.

I have to agree with Mark here that there hasn't been a lot of change in electronics over the last ten years other than the change around 2001 to a more-vintage sounding pickup in Epiphone's version of the '57 Classic from what I think was a hotter, ceramic pickup used previously. I'm not real versed in what pickups Epiphone currently uses but I do recall in the past my saying that I thought the Dot with $300 in upgrades (basically pickups, electronic components and machine head upgrades back when the Dot was well-under $400) was one of the better semi-acoustic bargains in the guitar world with a similarly upgraded G-400 being the bang/buck bargain in solid bodies. With the shift of production going almost exclusively the way of China it's hard to say what the future holds for those models in terms of production quality or market share given the in roads private label/OEM brands such as Agile have made or what the direction of Epiphone manufacture/component parts' quality will be in the future as Epiphone struggles trying to hold the margin while keeping market share.


Greg