Crate V5 mods... anyone?

[Tarin]

Yep, i'm one of those who fell for the Crate V-Series blowout sale, at first i bought the V-18, and considered it a good amp, great for the price... sold it after a great offer made to me.
Went back to MF only to find out they were out of stock (also in GC, Sameday, Samash and everywhere).
Made my homework on the V5, and althought it had bad reviews i went for it thinking "how bad could it be" and "even if it's that bad, somebody will come out with mods for it".

Well, the amp sounds pretty bad (not as bad as the reviews claim, once the cheapo speaker breaks in you get decent tones, that and an EQ pedal), and as of now nobody has come out with a mod for it.

I got in touch with an Ebay seller who has one "Modded Crate V5" on sale but he asks 230 bucks for it and doesn't sell any mod kit for it (he claims modding this amp consists on almost building an entire new circuit).

I'm sure i'm not the only one stuck with a V5 waiting for mods... any help?

[Andy]

best way to mod one? sledgehammer.

[Tarin]

Sledgehammer... not a good idea, the cab in itself is alright.

[tunghaichuan***]

Have you ever worked on tube amps before? Do you have a DMM? Do you have a schematic for the amp?

I believe the V5 is the same amp as the VC-508, but with different cosmetics.

I've never seen the inside of one, so it may be hard to mod if there are SMDs on the PCB.

tung

[Tarin]

Nop, not a licensed tech or anything... i consider myself a good tinkerer and good with a soldering iron, but i could never come up with the slightest idea on how to mod a tube amp.
That's why i'm waiting for some mod-kit to come up (with instructions), that i can manage. BTW, i'm aware of the dangers involved in tube amps, and know the right proceedures for a proper drain.

Schematics i don't have but i'll start working on getting those (never dealt with Crate people).

As of now, i only have some pics of the amp's board (if that gives any help).

[Tarin]

A few more pic's of the Crate V5...


Sovtek tubes...


And here, the 99 dollar cab and crappy speaker...

[sumitomo]

best way to mod one? sledgehammer.

I'm with Andy whip out that 5 lbs. precision adjuster and have at her.Sumi

[Tarin]

Tung, i'll post your email comments (for anyone following this thread):

Looking at the schematic, it looks a lot like the VC-508. The V5 isprobably an update of the older amp with a larger speaker and someupgraded parts values. Do you want more bass in the clean sound or distorted sound? You couldbump up C1 to 22uF/50v, but it might make the amp sound flubby/farty. Other areas to look at would be replacing the speaker with a better oneand replacing the output transformer with a better one.

To me, cleans sound ok... i'm using humbuckers so messing with the tone knob on my guitar get's me some good tones on it.
While overdriven the amps sounds ice-picking thin, i use a multieffect pedal, Digitech RP250 and all my distortion based presets sound like that to (not thru my Vox Pathfinder 15R).

The speaker replacement issue is a bit confusing... the only spare speaker i could use is the 8" stock one on my Vox 15R and as a said erlier on this thread, lots of reviews claim that swapping the speakers and tubes helped, and others claimed it didn't... so, i'll try using the smaller speaker i have at hand (not a big step forward, but might help).

As for the OT, same issue... i had to buy one.

At first i thought i could get decent tones just by replacing resistrors and such (an inexpensive and fun way of modding) rather than swapping parts (no fun-labor factor there, and could be a bit expensive)... but i guess that drill goes: first swap stuff then mess with the board.

any recomendations on an inexpensive OT?... theres a lot of space in the cab.

[Tarin]

Now we have one question answered, there's a post on Youtube with a comparison of two V5's: one stock and one with a Celestion G-10 speaker on it.
On a side by side camparison you can tell that a speaker change helps a lot.

Video is posted by The Tone King... great reviews from him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=na0mrc1QZoY

Take a look and tell me (us) what you think now that you can be able to listen to a stock V5.

Oops, +-100 bucks for a G10 speaker... ouch.
Any recomendations on a good not-so-expensive 10" speaker?

[Andy]

I heard a crate with the warehouse spkr greenback clone($69-green beret) in it and it made a world of difference.,,well worth the expense

edit* my bad, that was a 12"

[SuperSwede]

Hello Deafelectromark (alias manoteal) and welcome to the fret net.
You seem to like to write a lot, so why dont you write something about yourself in the fret players section?

[deafelectromark]

Hello Deafelectromark (alias manoteal) and welcome to the fret net.
You seem to like to write a lot, so why dont you write something about yourself in the fret players section?

Hi Super,
Yes I am new to the Fret. I have been a member of other sites, most notably 18 watt and now SEwatt. I have been selling on eBay for about 5 years now and I am a deaf musician. You can read my bio on eBay (deafelectromark) and if you tell me where to post a howdy here, I will do so.
I was drawn to this site when a friend in Mexico was having similar concerns with the poor quality sound from the Crate V5- an amp that I bought with the hopes of improving, since many people were also dissatisfied.
I have been doing electronics for over 40 years, got a Electronics technician certificate at trade school, taught eleactronics at that same school for a time, worked in high-end (read $$$$$) audio during the heyday of CD's coming on the scene and home theaters going into the rich folk's homes. They would look at my hearing aids and appear puzzled. Some would just come out and say, "How can you do your job if you can't hear?" I told them that as long as their ears were happy, then I would take their money. If not, tell me what isn't right and I will make it so. After all, it is THEIR ears that are important, right?
Started playing stringed instruments in 1967- first autoharp, then banjo, then piano and guitar and was in the school band playing drums from 4th grade through high school graduation (Concert Band, Marching Band, Orchestra (tympani), etc. Made the guitar my main thing when I was grounded for a Summer my Sophomore year in High School- nothing better to do.
Lost my hearing gradually. didn't wear hearing aids until I was 18. They stopped being useful when I turned 40. Went to college, got a couple of degrees in Deaf education, and now am a registered Drug and Addictions Intern. Worked with only deaf people for a while, got bored of that (try to explain music to a deaf person- you might as well talk about colors to a blind one).
Implanted with cochlear device in 2002- now I have my brain wired so I can plug stuff right into it. Yes, even a guitar. I can hear a fly's fart in a quiet room. I just got the latest model, and it is WAY too sensitive. I don't want to hear ALL that. Volume does not go to zero as programmed. I am getting that fixed in a week or so. Can't complain, when I want quiet I just turn it off.
So Hi Ya'll! Lets let the fun begin! Don't be shy now, jump on in!

Super,
You can cut and paste this intro into the proper section, or guide me to it and I will do it.

[Tarin]

Hello mark, mexican buddy here.
Just read your bio and can't manage to clos my jaw... that must be the shortest/best explained/interesting and surprising bio i've read in a long time (people at Myspace could learn how to get a message thru).

[Tarin]

Now back to the main concern: upgrading the V5.

Deafelectro... That's some great task you've acomplished in the little amp. i might catch you up on sending the board to get modded and be the first one to review and experiment with your findings.
I already got your email so i'll get in touch with you next week to make this happen.
Now for the speaker issue... is there any way of including one of your leftover Eminence's in the picture?

[deafelectromark]

Hello mark, mexican buddy here.
Just read your bio and can't manage to clos my jaw... that must be the shortest/best explained/interesting and surprising bio i've read in a long time (people at Myspace could learn how to get a message thru).

Thanks C.
Your last line is cryptic- what do you mean concerning Myspace? That they can't speak succinctly? It is a skill after all. I do become quite long winded (see first post above), but last night you (and the rest of us) got lucky. I was passing out from lack of sleep. I just HAD to say what I said. That said- let the music begin!
M

[jim p]

I bought a V5 from Musicians Friend for 80 bucks and have started modifying it. I have two Epi valve Jr. Amps one that I added reverb, triode pentode switch, and Alnico Weber speaker to and the other with FET input high voltage regulator and 6V6 installed. I saw the schematics for the V5 on the web and can see right away they have an amplifier with a solid state preamp (TL072) and tube output not what most people want but easy to fix. Getting the amp found the stock speaker is probably not a guitar speaker so first thing was playing it through the valve Jr speakers also a pair of Jensen 10 special designs made a big difference. So ordered a new speaker from Ted Webber (they have 15% off right now so 43 bucks total with shipping) they make the stock speaker in the old valve Jr. I think. For circuit mods so far I did not remove the Op Amp because it is used for high frequency bypass (above 100Hz) and pre emphasis (boost the highs so the tone control can take them out or pass them through). So I removed R13 to change IC1-A to unity gain and use as a high impedance buffer to not load down the guitar pickups. Next removed C26 changed C24 to 47nF (Note this should be 100nF) removed C27 and installed a 33k resistor in its place removed the 250k pot to use as a volume control after the tone stack. Lifted the 100nf C25 at the node connecting it to R2 and R1 putting a 33k resistor with a 10 nF cap accost it in series (this is now the pre emphasis for the tone stack) With these changes if you over drive the amplifier input with overdrive instead of the OP Amp clipping (awful noise) the first stage tube will clip (as man and god intended when tube amps were created) Next on the tone control changed C6 to 25 nF removed C5 (not sure where a frequency this high is going to come from) and removed C4 (so when you turn the tone control all the way up it does not go to no highs) Now to install the volume pot removed R15 and R27 connected the 250K pot CW1 that was in the Op Amp feedback to ground on the wiper full CCW side connected the wiper to junction of R15, R27, R7 and the grid of J2-A and the third terminal of the pot to junction of R29 C28. Now the tone is set to flat at a quarter turn (9 o’clock position). Then checked the output of the amplifier with a frequency generator and scope and found that it did not clip equally at high volume and started to oscillate. Fixed that by lowering the cathode bias resistor to what the data sheets call out for 270 ohms. Also changed R22 the resistor in series with the power indicator to 150 ohms but it is still to bright will probably go to 220 ohms also it is a light bulb not an LED.
As always if you do mods to a tube amplifier be careful of the high voltages in this case a plate voltage of 316 volts. There is a bleeder resistor R24 so that helps but use a volt meter. And always remember the one hand rule do all your probing with one hand make sure no other part of your body or your other hand is tied to ground.
I changed the value of C24 above found lowest frequency from guitar to be 82Hz not 190Hz.

[Tarin]

Wow, that's some major modding. Unlike what Deafelectro achieved with his more simple mods.
I've been in touch with Deafelectro for him modding my V5 since he's is the only mod i've come up in the internet.
But now that you have accomplish another one...it's only fair to take in consideration, any clips? pics?

[Bloozcat]

Yep, i'm one of those who fell for the Crate V-Series blowout sale, at first i bought the V-18, and considered it a good amp, great for the price... sold it after a great offer made to me.
Went back to MF only to find out they were out of stock (also in GC, Sameday, Samash and everywhere).
Made my homework on the V5, and althought it had bad reviews i went for it thinking "how bad could it be" and "even if it's that bad, somebody will come out with mods for it".

Well, the amp sounds pretty bad (not as bad as the reviews claim, once the cheapo speaker breaks in you get decent tones, that and an EQ pedal), and as of now nobody has come out with a mod for it.

I got in touch with an Ebay seller who has one "Modded Crate V5" on sale but he asks 230 bucks for it and doesn't sell any mod kit for it (he claims modding this amp consists on almost building an entire new circuit).

I'm sure i'm not the only one stuck with a V5 waiting for mods... any help?

Try going over to www.sewatt.com and sign up. There's a new Crate 5 watt discussion just starting there. There's not much info yet, but it may generate some. There's not a whole lot of love there for the Crate 5 watt circuit, so be forewarned. It might need darn near a whole new circuit...

EDIT TO ADD: I see our new member deafelectro has already been in the Crate discussion on sewatt.co as his alter ego Manoteal...I thought his post here looked familiar...

[jim p]

I have no pictures or sound clips right now. Would like to post a marked up schematic if I get a chance maybe pics. It sounds like a lot of mods but it’s not really but maybe that is because I am an electronic engineer in analog design. I did all the mods with no cuts to the PC board I did have to attach wires to the volume pot to connect it the pc board and add electrical tape under it to prevent a short to the board. All the other mods except the pre emphasis mod (33k ohm with 10nF in parallel between C25 and R1, R2) are removing components and leaving them out, changing there value or in the case of C27 replacing it with a resistor. At the least I would change R17 to 180 ohms to stop the oscillation in the EL84 output tube I just paralleled it with another 330 ohm 2 watt (165 ohms) as a quick modification. With the Op Amp input I just wanted to use it as a buffer circuit with minimum gain (equal to loss in pre emphasis circuit) so if you overdrive you will clip the first stage tube. I was hoping that I could fit a set of dual concentric pots in place of the two pots so I would have gain, tone, volume and reverb controls on the front panel. I am going to add reverb using a Ruby tank from a Crate V33 head that I changed to an Accutronics 3 spring tank. Will probably change the output tube to a 6V6 this is for my son as a practice amplifier he likes Fender amps with reverb. Good chance will need a triode/pentode switch also. I have modified the Crate V33 head and a Crate V50 and have a V18 (will change to 6V6 output class AB) on order like fooling with tubes and these are so cheep for what you get. You have to remember it is hard to kill a tube (as long as it is cathode biased) unlike transistors, fets and ICs. If you do something wrong will probably just get no sound out.