Low Output High Output

[tot_Ou_tard]

High output pups are overwound & tend toward a middy tonality.

Why do players complain about the "output" of lower output pups if they happen to like the tonality.

Can't you either turn up the amp or use an always on clean boost?

[Spudman***]

High output pups are overwound & tend toward a middy tonality.

Why do players complain about the "output" of lower output pups if they happen to like the tonality.

Can't you either turn up the amp or use an always on clean boost?

That's why I like lower output pickups. When I turn the amp up more the magic starts to happen. For the type of playing I do when I've tried running high output humbuckers then the amp would break up in a not so good sounding way. Too much input volume or something. I don't have that issue with lower output pups and therefore can control the sound a bit more with pedals.

[tunghaichuan***]

That's why I like lower output pickups. When I turn the amp up more the magic starts to happen. For the type of playing I do when I've tried running high output humbuckers then the amp would break up in a not so good sounding way. Too much input volume or something. I don't have that issue with lower output pups and therefore can control the sound a bit more with pedals.

I concur. The more windings the more voltage into the input of the amp. Having high output pickups is like having a booster permanently on. I like lower output pickups as well.

Although I did have a guitar with ultra low output lipstick pickups in it and I just couldn't get on with that guitar. Slightly hotter than stock single coils usually do it for me.

tung

[tot_Ou_tard]

That's what I figured. Thanks for the input Spud & tung.

[marnold***]

High output pups are overwound & tend toward a middy tonality.

Usually, yes. The magnet strength also affects output and tone.

Why do players complain about the "output" of lower output pups if they happen to like the tonality.

Can't you either turn up the amp or use an always on clean boost?

Therein lies the issue: "if they like the tonality." Low/vintage output pickups sometimes sound weak and fizzy if you are using a brutal amount of gain on your amp. A clean boost won't help there. A Tube Screamer-type pedal might.

I've gone back and forth on this. The pickup in my Fender is pretty high output for a passive pickup. It was hard to play pristine cleans because the amp would want to overdrive quickly and it would be quite middy. Scooping the mids on the amp just made it sound bleh. Initially I added a coil-cut switch which helped, but then it sounded like an ueber-powerful single coil which really wasn't what I was looking for either.

My Screamin' Demon is a good compromise. It's relatively low output and quite bright, but it has a nice midrange growl. It really won't produce a bone-crushing tone with massive gain without serious amp tweaking and/or a Tube Screamer.

More recently I changed the coil cut on my Fender to a series/parallel switch. I think that's the magic combination. In parallel mode the output is 1/4 of what it is in series. It becomes significantly brighter (or perhaps more accurately, the mids and lows are cut).

With the experimentation I've done, if I were to build another guitar, I'd want to get another HSS. I'd get the Area 61s again in a heartbeat. I'd probably go with something like an SD Distortion/JB/Custom Custom or Dimarzio Super Distortion and have a series/parallel switch in the bridge.

Having said that, I'm pretty happy with what I can get from my Screamin' Demon. It can do the clean surfy thing without getting wussy as you push the gain.

[tot_Ou_tard]

I understand that some not like the tonality of low-output pups, that's why my question was about solely about the output of pups that you like the sound of.

I think that "brutal" in the phrase "brutal amount of gain" needs to be done in German font with an umlaut over the u.

Dripping blood wouldn't hurt either.

[markb]

If you mainly play clean(ish) lower output pickups have better dynamics. Considering single coils only, there comes a point as you pile on the windings where the tone becomes muddy and harsh. Personally I like strat pickups around 5.5-6K and tele units at about 7-7.5K. These are fairly to the original Fender specs for 50s instruments and suit my preferred sparkly clean tones.

[tunghaichuan***]

More recently I changed the coil cut on my Fender to a series/parallel switch. I think that's the magic combination. In parallel mode the output is 1/4 of what it is in series. It becomes significantly brighter (or perhaps more accurately, the mids and lows are cut).

Parallel coil wiring is my favorite way to wire a humbucker, probably because it makes the humbucker sound closer to a single coil but still retains hum cancelling. I don't find coil cut to be all that useful.

I had a Warmoth parts strat with a Blues Saraceno Trembucker with a series parallel switch that sounded very good in parallel mode, and was lower output in series mode like your Screamin' Demon.

tung

[tot_Ou_tard]

If you mainly play clean(ish) lower output pickups have better dynamics.

I'm all for dynamic cleans with a balanced frequency spectrum.

[oldguy]

I've always liked balanced cleans with just a touch of dynamic frequency spectrum myself....but to each their own.

[tot_Ou_tard]

I've always liked balanced cleans with just a touch of dynamic frequency spectrum myself....but to each their own.

The cleans may be balanced, but you Geez' most definitely are not.


Must be why I like you.

[oldguy]

Ditto, kiddo!

[LagrangeCalvert]

I think magnet selection is a huge part in tone and dynamics. I personally LOVE alnico 2 pups....hot or not. Thats why in my epi there is a SD alnico 2 flat strat pro single coil in the neck, and a pearly gates in the bridge. The dynamics and touch response IMHO of Alnico 2's is unbeatable. I have never understood the idea of running a high gain amph with a high gain pickup. Now my fav sounding pup for high gain rock/hard rock is the SD J/B.

The true test of a pup IMHO is a single channel amp with a moderate amount of gain, then put your guitar to it and see how the pups respond... if you cant clean them up and still have a decent amount of volume, then thats a problem in my eyes, and when turned up they sound weak or fizzy I'd say ditch em' cause if they don't respond to the volume of your guitar then its already a lost cause IMO.