HNPD: Cool Cat Transparent OD

[markb]

So far I think they sound pretty good. So I got two - one for me and one for some guy who missed out on them before they changed the circuit design and will be willing to shell out big bucks because he thinks the Timmy is over priced.

The Timmy costs $129. That's for a handwired pedal with true bypass (yawn), a clipping switch and a socketed opamp. Pretty good value, I think. The real pain is the 8 month plus waiting list. Timmy's sold on evilbay are overpriced because people are buying them to sell on to those who just can't wait :

If I really like the TOD, I might well order a Timmy. The Dano pedal might last until I get to the top of the list

[Spudman***]

I just ordered 144 of them. I figure what the heck. Who's going to seriously wait 8 months for a pedal that costs $130 when they can get from me in a week for just $75?:

[duhvoodooman***]

Actually, Paul Cochrane's Timmy pedal (IMO) isn't overpriced at all. $129 for a handmade pedal is more than fair--take it from someone who is in a position to know, based upon what's involved in making them. I give Cochrane a lot of credit for not jacking the price through the roof and managing the demand that way. Instead, he's got a several-months-long waiting list of customers who want his pedal's particular sound and recognize that his price is a relative bargain among "boutique" pedal makers. $200 - $300 is the more typical range for an in-demand pedal like his.

The cost driver for hand-made pedals is the labor, not the parts. That's why Danelectro, who cranks them out on an automated production line in China, can afford to sell 'em for $40 and still make a decent profit. But I'm sure they pay a lot less for the parts, too, by buying in bulk.

Being a pedal maker myself, I would feel guilty about buying the Danelectro if not for the fact that I would never consider spending the $129 for another OD pedal--even a very good one--or waiting for months to get one. So in doing so, I'm not taking business away from Paul and giving it to Danelectro. But I'm happy to see that the Danelectro people have apparently been in contact with Paul to sort this out. Hopefully, they do the right thing--change the design and work out some kind of monetary settlement with him for "borrowing" his design for several months. As I understand it, legally they owe him nothing. But what's legal and what's right are so often two different things....

[tunghaichuan***]

One thing that confuses me about the whole debate is that people are eager to jump on Danelectro for making a cheaper alternative to the Timmy. Yet no one has jumped on the opportunistic sellers who buy Paul's pedals, then turn around and flip them for a profit. When Dano sells pedals, its Evil. When sellers flip Paul's pedals for a profit, it capitalism.

tung

[duhvoodooman***]

One thing that confuses me about the whole debate is that people are eager to jump on Danelectro for making a cheaper alternative to the Timmy. Yet no one has jumped on the opportunistic sellers who buy Paul's pedals, then turn around and flip them for a profit. When Dano sells pedals, its Evil. When sellers flip Paul's pedals for a profit, it capitalism.

tung

I think maybe the logic is that in the latter scenario, Paul doesn't lose any business. Such people are just pandering to the impatient who want one NOW and are willing to pay for it. In that sense, they're just satisfying a demand that's out there and that Paul doesn't service directly with his business model. Though I do agree with you, Tung--strikes me as price gouging and taking advantage of the situation. Then again, nobody holds a gun to the heads of those who pay these inflated pass-through prices....

[F_BSurfer]

Either way this falls I bet both are enjoying all the free publicity
I have had this pedal for couple months now and really enjoy it alot ....like it best w/epi and 18w tmb

[markb]

And the debate rages on. Here's one user's comparison between TOD and Timmy. No audio or video though

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/sho...d.php?t=503563

[Ro3b]

Hm. Apparently the Cool Cat fuzz (which I'm having major fun with these days) is a clone of the Frantone Peach Fuzz. Looks like somebody at Danelectro is doing their homework.

[duhvoodooman***]

....Looks like somebody at Danelectro is doing their homework.

Or copying the answers of the smart kids, depending upon how you look at this kind of thing!

[tunghaichuan***]

Or copying the answers of the smart kids, depending upon how you look at this kind of thing!

Copying circuits is nothing new. The trademark only protects the artwork and look of the packaging. The circuit itself is up for grabs, unless it is patented. And there are very few new circuits. Most of them are just tweaked versions of existing circuits. Some pedals are direct copies, often lifted from the manufacturer's data sheets. It's one reason that some pedal manufacturers put goop on their circuit boards, to protect their tweaks.

This is the reason that Leo Fender couldn't sue Jim Marshall for copying the Fender Bassman. It is the reason that Dumble goops his amps, they are just high gain tweaked out versions of Fender amps. In turn, Fender amps were based on circuits published by Western Electric.

tung

[tunghaichuan***]

I think maybe the logic is that in the latter scenario, Paul doesn't lose any business. Such people are just pandering to the impatient who want one NOW and are willing to pay for it. In that sense, they're just satisfying a demand that's out there and that Paul doesn't service directly with his business model.

Actually, Paul does lose business, if someone buys from a gouger, then they're not buying from Paul. It is the same thing only for different reasons: buying the Dano results from people not wanting to spend $130 on a pedal. Buying a used, but marked up Timmy results from people not wanting to wait. So Paul loses out on both accounts.

Though I do agree with you, Tung--strikes me as price gouging and taking advantage of the situation. Then again, nobody holds a gun to the heads of those who pay these inflated pass-through prices....

True, I agree.

tung

[duhvoodooman***]

Actually, Paul does lose business, if someone buys from a gouger, then they're not buying from Paul. It is the same thing only for different reasons: buying the Dano results from people not wanting to spend $130 on a pedal. Buying a used, but marked up Timmy results from people not wanting to wait. So Paul loses out on both accounts.

Not sure I agree with your reasoning here, Tung. I would think that the majority of these gougers buy the pedal for the express purpose of turning right around and selling it at a higher price. In such a case, they merely serve as a middle man--Paul still gets his sale and somebody ends up with Paul's pedal, albeit at a higher price. They pay the premium to avoid waiting several months.

In any case, he's obviously "sold out" if his waiting list is months long. So you can't really say he loses any sales--even to Danelectro--if he's always working from a big backlog of orders. Of course, I'm playing a bit of devil's advocate here, too!

[tunghaichuan***]

Yeah, I will concede that my reasoning may be faulty here. It just seems to me though, that it is a bit hypocritical for TGP members to blast those who buy Dano TOD pedal but don't blast those making a profit on Paul's work.

Okay, I'll shut up now.

tung

Not sure I agree with your reasoning here, Tung. I would think that the majority of these gougers buy the pedal for the express purpose of turning right around and selling it at a higher price. In such a case, they merely serve as a middle man--Paul still gets his sale and somebody ends up with Paul's pedal, albeit at a higher price. They pay the premium to avoid waiting several months.

In any case, he's obviously "sold out" if his waiting list is months long. So you can't really say he loses any sales--even to Danelectro--if he's always working from a big backlog of orders. Of course, I'm playing a bit of devil's advocate here, too!

[markb]

The video comparison we've all been waiting for?

[duhvoodooman***]

Pretty damned close. The Timmy sounded a bit brighter & more open, but that could just be smallish differences between the control pot settings. I'm feeling pretty good about that $43 I spent....

[Spudman***]

I thought the Dano had more of a pronounced midrange when activated. I noticed this particularly at about 1:30 in the video. Still the Dano sounds pretty good.
I think the Timmy sounds thin by comparison.

[Robert****]

I liked the Dano on this clip better too.

[F_BSurfer]

close enough that I'm even more pleased with my purchase

[Blaze]

close enough that I'm even more pleased with my purchase

Same for me ! :