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rack setups?
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Thread: rack setups?

  1. #1
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    Default rack setups?

    ive never quite understood these, but i know theyre versatile.

    if i bought say, an EL34 power amp, and a preamp, could i run

    Power Amp -> Preamp -> Cab?
    Guitars: Ibanez RG420EG, Harrier Mistral Ice White Tele
    Amps: Hughes & Kettner Edition Blue 15R (w/ 8" Celestion), Marshall Valvestate Mk.I 8100 Head, Blackheart BH5H Head
    Cabs: Marshall 4x12 (4 x Celestion Pro 12")
    FX:Line 6 Floor POD, BOSS 7-band GE-7, BOSS Mega Distortion MD-2, Vox V847a Reissue Wah, Danelectro Cool Cat Drive

    Just another Rig Sig Jig, Dig?

  2. #2
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    No. It'd work better wired:

    Preamp -> Power Amp -> Speaker
    Guitars (All Lefty): Fender MIM Wine Red Telecaster
    Washburn D10SCELHBK
    Greg Bennett (Samick) Avion AV3/LH/CS
    Franken-Strat (Maple Neck / Black Body & Pickguard / 2-Point Tremolo / GFS Alnico Single-coil Pups / Gold Hardware)
    2 Fullerton Standard Strats; Sunburst w/ GFS Overwound P'ups and Black w/ GFS Lil Killer Rail 'Buckers
    Fullerton Deluxe Dreadnought
    Amp: Blackheart BH1HS Killer Ant Half Stack (Bitmo Ant Eater Kit)
    Crate V18-112 (Goodsell RGM Speaker / Accutronics Tank / Switch R4 - R10 Mod)
    Pignose G40V (Jensen MOD Speaker / DC Heater Mod / Pentode:Triode Switch)
    Fender Champion 30 Reverb (Accutronics Tank / Jensen MOD Speaker)
    Speaker Cab: Lopo 1x12 Tweed Convertible w/ Eminence GB128 Speaker
    Pedals: Korg ToneWorks AX1000G, AX5G, & AmpworksG Modeling Signal Processors
    Boss DS-1 (Rectifier Tri-Gain Plus Mod); CS-3 (Opto Plus Mod); SD-1 Super (GT Mod); GE-7 (Plus Mod)
    Fender PT-100 Tuner
    E.H. Big Muff Pi (US)
    S.D. Pickup Booster
    Ibanez CF7 Chorus/Flanger
    Alesis NanoVerb
    ART Tube MP Studio (OPA2604 Op Amps) (On Champion 30)
    Behringer NR100 & OD100

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibanezjunkie
    ive never quite understood these, but i know theyre versatile.

    if i bought say, an EL34 power amp, and a preamp, could i run

    Power Amp -> Preamp -> Cab?

    It's pretty simple really. An amp only has three parts: preamp, power amp and power supply. Rackmount units have the preamp and power amp separate, each with their own built-in power supplies.

    You'd want to run: Preamp -> Power Amp -> Cab. You can also place an FX unit between the preamp and the power amp. For real kicks you can run stereo FX into a stereo power amp and a pair of speaker cabs for a stereo rig. I ran one for years.

    tung

  4. #4
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    ahh thats what i meant lol. obviously preamp first, that was dumb of me :
    Guitars: Ibanez RG420EG, Harrier Mistral Ice White Tele
    Amps: Hughes & Kettner Edition Blue 15R (w/ 8" Celestion), Marshall Valvestate Mk.I 8100 Head, Blackheart BH5H Head
    Cabs: Marshall 4x12 (4 x Celestion Pro 12")
    FX:Line 6 Floor POD, BOSS 7-band GE-7, BOSS Mega Distortion MD-2, Vox V847a Reissue Wah, Danelectro Cool Cat Drive

    Just another Rig Sig Jig, Dig?

  5. #5
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    hey guys, im normally not a fan of behringer stuff, but their hybrid preamp supposedly sounds good (youtube).

    anyone ever used an ultragain pro?

    http://www.dawsons.co.uk/acatalog/info_42827.html
    Guitars: Ibanez RG420EG, Harrier Mistral Ice White Tele
    Amps: Hughes & Kettner Edition Blue 15R (w/ 8" Celestion), Marshall Valvestate Mk.I 8100 Head, Blackheart BH5H Head
    Cabs: Marshall 4x12 (4 x Celestion Pro 12")
    FX:Line 6 Floor POD, BOSS 7-band GE-7, BOSS Mega Distortion MD-2, Vox V847a Reissue Wah, Danelectro Cool Cat Drive

    Just another Rig Sig Jig, Dig?

  6. #6
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    That really isn't a guitar preamp. It is more for warming up digital sources. It doesn't have a dirty channel for distorted playing.



    It works okay, but you'd still have to use a pedal for heavier sounds.

    Also, I'd be surprised if the 12AX7 actually did anything other than sit there and look good. Many times, circuits like that only have the vacuum tube there for show and it isn't actually in the signal path.

    tung





    Quote Originally Posted by ibanezjunkie
    hey guys, im normally not a fan of behringer stuff, but their hybrid preamp supposedly sounds good (youtube).

    anyone ever used an ultragain pro?

    http://www.dawsons.co.uk/acatalog/info_42827.html

  7. #7
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    I'm a recent convert to rack rigs now that there's a processor/ preamp that plays and sounds like a real tube amp and makes me extremely happy. The cool thing about them is that you can build your sound just about any way you want to - just add money.

    Guitars: 2008 Gibson SG Classic, 2006 Gibson Les Paul Standard LE, 2002 Gibson SG Supreme, 2001 Gibson Les Paul Studio Plus, 1996 Les Paul Studio Gem, American Deluxe Double Fat Strat, Bluesville "Super" Strat Copy, MIK Fender "Limited Edition" Tele, JD Bluesville "Night Pilot", Yamaha AES 820, Steinberger Spirit GT Pro, Taylor 355CE, Ovation 1897 Adamas, Ovation CC057 Celebrity

    Amps: Axe FX centered rack rig, Mesa 4x12 cab. Germino Club 40, Johnson JM150 Millennium, Johnson JM250 Millennium, Gibson Titan Medalist Frankenstein.

    Effects: Tonebone Trimode, EH Holy Grail, Boss CH-1, Dunlop Crybaby Classic, Framptone Amp Switcher, THD Hot Plate, Yamaha AG Stomp Acoustic Processor, Boss BCB-60 Pedal Board.

  8. #8
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    Now that is the rack setup of doom. : :

    tung

    Quote Originally Posted by Plank_Spanker
    I'm a recent convert to rack rigs now that there's a processor/ preamp that plays and sounds like a real tube amp and makes me extremely happy. The cool thing about them is that you can build your sound just about any way you want to - just add money.


  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by tunghaichuan
    Now that is the rack setup of doom. : :

    tung
    Thanks, Tung!

    I absolutely LOVE the sounds I get from it. The Axe FX is amazing!
    Guitars: 2008 Gibson SG Classic, 2006 Gibson Les Paul Standard LE, 2002 Gibson SG Supreme, 2001 Gibson Les Paul Studio Plus, 1996 Les Paul Studio Gem, American Deluxe Double Fat Strat, Bluesville "Super" Strat Copy, MIK Fender "Limited Edition" Tele, JD Bluesville "Night Pilot", Yamaha AES 820, Steinberger Spirit GT Pro, Taylor 355CE, Ovation 1897 Adamas, Ovation CC057 Celebrity

    Amps: Axe FX centered rack rig, Mesa 4x12 cab. Germino Club 40, Johnson JM150 Millennium, Johnson JM250 Millennium, Gibson Titan Medalist Frankenstein.

    Effects: Tonebone Trimode, EH Holy Grail, Boss CH-1, Dunlop Crybaby Classic, Framptone Amp Switcher, THD Hot Plate, Yamaha AG Stomp Acoustic Processor, Boss BCB-60 Pedal Board.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by tunghaichuan
    Now that is the rack setup of doom. : :
    Axen: Jackson DK2M, Fender Deluxe Nashville Telecaster, Reverend Warhawk 390, Taylor 914ce, ESP LTD Surveyor-414
    Amphen: Jet City JCA22H and JCA12S cab, Carvin X-60 combo, Acoustic B20
    Effecten: "Thesis 96" Overdrive/Boost (aka DVM OD2), Hardwire DL-8 Digital Delay/Looper, DigiTech Polara Reverb, DigiTech EX-7 Expression Factory and CF-7 Chorus Factory, Danelectro CF-1 Cool Cat Fuzz
    "I wish Imagine Dragons would be stuck in an Arcade Fire for an entire Vampire Weekend."--Brian Posehn

  11. #11
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    I have owned a buch of different rack rigs over the years. My favorite preamps are
    #1 the Carvin Tone Navigator
    surprisingly it's a SS unit but sounds and feels REAL like a good tube amp. It does have built in effects but they are pretty basic and primitive it's more or less just a KILLER stand alone midi pre. Right now Carvin is blowing the last of these out on ebay for $270 + $30 shipping!!
    #2 Marshall JMP-1
    #3 Peavy Rock Master
    Mostly I have found the best tones with stand alone preamps and not the full boat effects laden rigs.
    With a pre power amp set up a GOOD TUBE POWER AMP IS ESSENTIAL FOR REAL AMP TONES!!!!
    Guitars
    Washburn's
    Chicago Custom Shop USA's 1995 MG 122,100,102,120, 1994 MG-122, one off 1994 Prototype, 1999 WM-4, 200 3-ST Stealth
    Carvins 1990 Pearl Pink reverse headstock X220C, 1991 Sapphire Blue Flame V220R.
    Accoustics
    LTD 88 Takamine

    Amps
    Fender Prosonic combo
    100 watt custom one off Prosonic head
    Fender 2/12 cab
    2 Avatar 2/12 cabs- Blond Oxblood with 75's and Red with Black Vin 30's
    Yamaha 4/12

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascension
    I have owned a buch of different rack rigs over the years. My favorite preamps are
    #1 the Carvin Tone Navigator
    surprisingly it's a SS unit but sounds and feels REAL like a good tube amp. It does have built in effects but they are pretty basic and primitive it's more or less just a KILLER stand alone midi pre. Right now Carvin is blowing the last of these out on ebay for $270 + $30 shipping!!
    With a pre power amp set up a GOOD TUBE POWER AMP IS ESSENTIAL FOR REAL AMP TONES!!!!
    Thanks for the heads up on the Tone Navigator. I've been lusting after one of those since they came out. $300 shipped is a killer deal for one of those. BTW, have you ever tried Carvin's SX-300R? Carvin blew a bunch of those out about 2 years ago, dirt cheap. They still sell the SX-300H, which is the 100w head version which uses that preamp.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascension
    With a pre power amp set up a GOOD TUBE POWER AMP IS ESSENTIAL FOR REAL AMP TONES!!!!
    I agree 100%. Nothing but tubes sound like tubes. However, I will say that the Tube Works MosValve power amps sound very good, especially if when on a budget.

    tung

  13. #13
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    Default Ahh!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascension
    I have owned a buch of different rack rigs over the years. My favorite preamps are
    #1 the Carvin Tone Navigator
    surprisingly it's a SS unit but sounds and feels REAL like a good tube amp. It does have built in effects but they are pretty basic and primitive it's more or less just a KILLER stand alone midi pre. Right now Carvin is blowing the last of these out on ebay for $270 + $30 shipping!!
    #2 Marshall JMP-1
    #3 Peavy Rock Master
    Mostly I have found the best tones with stand alone preamps and not the full boat effects laden rigs.
    With a pre power amp set up a GOOD TUBE POWER AMP IS ESSENTIAL FOR REAL AMP TONES!!!!
    Well I must second this post except I haven't seen a Carvin Tone Navigator.

    My rack setup for several years was a Marshall Jmp-1 which I ran direct to PA via the emulated outs and to a Samson 120W poweramp > 4x10" cab...very versatile, very portable rig which despite being mostly SS was VERY good indeed. (I never was afraid of using also SS rigs; I get some of my best sounds from SS systems and it really makes little difference to me what the rig is...I think always sound more or less the same if I play thru a JCM800 or a 10W Behringer amp once I set it the way I like with pedals I like.

    On the JMP-1 I usually mostly used the 'classic clean' channel which I ran at 20 gain 20 vol when it crunched real well, and sent it over the edge with hot pickups and an OD pedal at times. Here's a live recording (direct to board from the JMP-1) on a 'bluesy setting' and for the lead I kick in a Tubescreamer (my trio band, I sing and play guitar): http://deeaa.pp.fi/Pelko.mp3

    Here's another lengthy vid where I play the JMP-1 now with a 60/60 tube poweramp/4x12"...also some comparison to the VJr head I modded...just the vidcam mic used but you still get an idea how they sounded.

    I always thought the JMP-1 was THE preamp for most any Marshall type sound and a very good basis to build a rig around.

    I also played my Rockmaster rig (that also had a 60/60 classic poweramp - el84's) for a good while live...I LOVED the setup as well...perhaps even better than JMP especially for more metal sounds.

    One clip from that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7t86...eature=related - I play the lead melody but not the solos.

    I'd be very interested trying that Carvin seeing you like similar preamps I do...
    Dee

    "When life's a biatch, be a horny dog"

    Amps: Marshall JVM 410H w/ Plexi Cap mod, Choke Mod & Negative Feedback Removal mod, 4x12", Behringer GMX110, Amplitube 3/StealthPedal

    Half a dozen custom built/bastardized guitars all with EMG's, mostly 85's, Ibanez Artwood acoustic & Yamaha SGR bass, Epiphone Prophecy SG, Vox Wah, Pitchblack tuner plus assorted pedals, rack gear etc. for home studio use.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by tunghaichuan
    I agree 100%. Nothing but tubes sound like tubes. However, I will say that the Tube Works MosValve power amps sound very good, especially if when on a budget.

    tung
    Hmm...that's an interesting issue to me.

    I agree nothing works like tube for the _player_ when they're playing the amp...they can pry my Ceriatone from my cold fingers...BUT on record, it matters very little what amp is used.

    I once created a poll test where I had like two dozen amp samples I recorded using about six different amps, half of them SS and half all tube, some even D/I and got about forty people, all guitarists, to guess which were which type...and aside from a couple very obvious ones (like the POD) nobody could tell them apart. Nobody.

    I wish I had the vid clip I made a long time ago here somewhere...I played on camera so that it looked like I was playing a 2204 Marshall, when actually the sound came from a completely D/I SS system...it got a LOT of comments like 'only a 2204 can sound so good etc.'...people hear what they see & think must be good in many a case. I'm sure if I recorded the 2204 and made it look like I was playing a Valve Jr. people would comment it sucks.

    I know a LOT of great sounds and records were actually recorded with even tiny SS amps...for most part when I record guitars, I will also rather use my 10W SS Tech-21 than mike up my Ceria...and it even sounds better in many cases...it's interesting.

    BUT yeah, when you stand in front of the amp, there is no comparison for the responsiveness and punch of a real tube amp. None.
    Dee

    "When life's a biatch, be a horny dog"

    Amps: Marshall JVM 410H w/ Plexi Cap mod, Choke Mod & Negative Feedback Removal mod, 4x12", Behringer GMX110, Amplitube 3/StealthPedal

    Half a dozen custom built/bastardized guitars all with EMG's, mostly 85's, Ibanez Artwood acoustic & Yamaha SGR bass, Epiphone Prophecy SG, Vox Wah, Pitchblack tuner plus assorted pedals, rack gear etc. for home studio use.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascension
    Mostly I have found the best tones with stand alone preamps and not the full boat effects laden rigs.
    With a pre power amp set up a GOOD TUBE POWER AMP IS ESSENTIAL FOR REAL AMP TONES!!!!
    Haven't experienced the Axe FX yet, have you?

    I don't want to get into a full blown discussion on preamps / processors here on the general guitar forum, but the Axe FX is an entirely new paragigm and has raised the bar for preamp / processors sky high.

    My rig plays and sounds like a real tube rig.

    Robert, mods - Why don't we move this thread to the amp forum where we can engage in a proper spirited discussion?
    Guitars: 2008 Gibson SG Classic, 2006 Gibson Les Paul Standard LE, 2002 Gibson SG Supreme, 2001 Gibson Les Paul Studio Plus, 1996 Les Paul Studio Gem, American Deluxe Double Fat Strat, Bluesville "Super" Strat Copy, MIK Fender "Limited Edition" Tele, JD Bluesville "Night Pilot", Yamaha AES 820, Steinberger Spirit GT Pro, Taylor 355CE, Ovation 1897 Adamas, Ovation CC057 Celebrity

    Amps: Axe FX centered rack rig, Mesa 4x12 cab. Germino Club 40, Johnson JM150 Millennium, Johnson JM250 Millennium, Gibson Titan Medalist Frankenstein.

    Effects: Tonebone Trimode, EH Holy Grail, Boss CH-1, Dunlop Crybaby Classic, Framptone Amp Switcher, THD Hot Plate, Yamaha AG Stomp Acoustic Processor, Boss BCB-60 Pedal Board.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by deeaa
    BUT yeah, when you stand in front of the amp, there is no comparison for the responsiveness and punch of a real tube amp. None.
    I agree.
    Years ago, when racks were all the rage, I had an ADA preamp going into a Yamaha power amp (MOSFET). It sounded very cold. I changed the ADA out to a Lee Jackson tube preamp, same thing.
    Nowadays I just use stompboxes into a Fender Twin (not mine, it's down at the rehearsal room), and it sounds MUCH better (either that or my hearing had deteriorated).
    Guitars: Epiphone SG-400 Custom; Epiphone Firebird V; 1996 Gibson LP Standard; Avion 4; Yamaha FG-301B acoustic

    FX: TS-808; Big Muff (Triangle Version); Red Llama; Green Ringer Octave Up (Clones); Maxon Phaser; Maxon Compressor; Tremulus Lune Tremolo; Line 6 POD II

    Amp: (Somewhere in another country) Hiwatt 100W head, Marshall 4x12 cab

    My noise here

  17. #17
    pes_laul Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by marnold
    haha awesome. I havent seen invader zim in a long time

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suhnton
    I agree.
    Years ago, when racks were all the rage, I had an ADA preamp going into a Yamaha power amp (MOSFET). It sounded very cold. I changed the ADA out to a Lee Jackson tube preamp, same thing.
    Nowadays I just use stompboxes into a Fender Twin (not mine, it's down at the rehearsal room), and it sounds MUCH better (either that or my hearing had deteriorated).
    Again, all I can say is that the Axe FX is changing all of that. I grew up playing tube amps, and own a very nice one now. I didn't jump into building a rack with the Axe FX lightly at all. It really does sound and respond like a real tube amp - no fizz, "can of bees", digital artifacts.....................cleans up when played soft or guitar volume dialed down, punchy like a real tube amp with plenty of thump, warm and vibrant, and infinitely tweakable to whatever pleases you.

    I'm not saying it makes tube amps obsolete. I'm just saying that the Axe FX is not the fizz box that people normally assume with rack processors. Cliff Chase at Fractal Audio is changing the game.
    Last edited by Plank_Spanker; July 22nd, 2009 at 12:26 PM.
    Guitars: 2008 Gibson SG Classic, 2006 Gibson Les Paul Standard LE, 2002 Gibson SG Supreme, 2001 Gibson Les Paul Studio Plus, 1996 Les Paul Studio Gem, American Deluxe Double Fat Strat, Bluesville "Super" Strat Copy, MIK Fender "Limited Edition" Tele, JD Bluesville "Night Pilot", Yamaha AES 820, Steinberger Spirit GT Pro, Taylor 355CE, Ovation 1897 Adamas, Ovation CC057 Celebrity

    Amps: Axe FX centered rack rig, Mesa 4x12 cab. Germino Club 40, Johnson JM150 Millennium, Johnson JM250 Millennium, Gibson Titan Medalist Frankenstein.

    Effects: Tonebone Trimode, EH Holy Grail, Boss CH-1, Dunlop Crybaby Classic, Framptone Amp Switcher, THD Hot Plate, Yamaha AG Stomp Acoustic Processor, Boss BCB-60 Pedal Board.

  19. #19
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    I'd love to check out the AxeFX but they are VERY rare over here as of yet, never seen one, and they cost a lot of money as well.

    It does seem to have some excellent sounds, I doubt not that it is the cutting edge of processors & that it sounds like a tube amp...

    BUT the problem with them processors...and all rack gear etc...is they have so many options. Even the simple ones like my Peavey Rockmaster/60-60/4x12" rig had way too many options for the sound.

    You play it and it's great, the next day it sounds not so good, tweak, play, tweak, play...listen to a track you recorded a week ago and wonder why you ditched THOSE settings it was best ever...

    It's like being in a candyland when I use stuff like that. I get no playing done, because all the time goes into tweaking the gear. You get a GREAT sound and five minutes later you're like well, maybe it would work better like this...or this...and when we're talking digital menus and connection options...POD XT, GT-6 etc...I've spent countless hours tweaking 'em and gotten really good sounds too but...it's always just tweaking. The best sound is always just around the corner or it was the last piece of gear you had after all, not this new one.

    What I've done for a good while now is I only use one type of guitar, always EMG85+SA and I use only one amp setting - I just got my Ceriatone volume where I want it to be and took off the knobs and screwed them back on at 12 o clock position so I never have to rememer how they were set...just make sure they're at 12 and go. NEVER change my sound or settings any more.

    Same with my Tech-21...I have it on clean with high gain and the only thing I adjust on it is the reverb amount.

    ALL the othe adjustments for sound I get from pedals, which I also adjust very little/rarely, and my guitar volume.

    And you know what...it still sounds a bit different every single time I play but I just ignore it and play...and I've never been happier with my guitars sound for a looooog time now.
    Dee

    "When life's a biatch, be a horny dog"

    Amps: Marshall JVM 410H w/ Plexi Cap mod, Choke Mod & Negative Feedback Removal mod, 4x12", Behringer GMX110, Amplitube 3/StealthPedal

    Half a dozen custom built/bastardized guitars all with EMG's, mostly 85's, Ibanez Artwood acoustic & Yamaha SGR bass, Epiphone Prophecy SG, Vox Wah, Pitchblack tuner plus assorted pedals, rack gear etc. for home studio use.

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