Tele project--Finishing an ash body, Suggestions, tips?

[6stringdrug]

I am eagerly awaiting my parts for my custom tele project. For the finish, i am planning on singeing(?) the back, sides and edges of the front with a torch, then a light finish (poly, nitro?) any suggestions on color? do i need filler? if i go poly color can i spray a nitro clear topcoat? anyone's $.02 is welcome and appreciated. Hope to be done in a month, pics will be sure to follow!!!

[Bloozcat]

I am eagerly awaiting my parts for my custom tele project. For the finish, i am planning on singeing(?) the back, sides and edges of the front with a torch, then a light finish (poly, nitro?) any suggestions on color? do i need filler? if i go poly color can i spray a nitro clear topcoat? anyone's $.02 is welcome and appreciated. Hope to be done in a month, pics will be sure to follow!!!

Ok, let me see if I've got this right. You're going to singe the whole back of the body? Then the sides and front edges of the body?

An ash body will need filler or the wood pore will show when the finish costs are applied. If you finish the guitar in a poly you cannot top coat with nitrocellulose lacquer - they're incompatible.

If you singe the body with a torch it's not likely that you be able to create a smooth, uniform finish. Some portions of the wood are likely to shrink from the heat more than others creating an irregular surface. One of the desirable features of a lacquer finish is the glass-like surface you get when it's polished out. That wouldn't be possible here as lacquer doesn't build up as polyurethane and polyester do...and even with those, that would be a thick finish.

[6stringdrug]

hmmmm, i hadn't thought of the expansion/contraction of the wood due to singeing. Dont want that. Im looking for the black-amber contrast, but really want it to be unique and show as much of the grain as possible. the more i read, the more im leaning towards nitro. food for thought, this part of the project has given me more headaches than anything else. as you can see, i'm kinda lost here.

[Bloozcat]

If you want to go from black to amber why not do a burst pattern using those two colors? That would be relatively easy to do with minimal effort.

Do you have spray equipment?

[6stringdrug]

no, no spray equipment. was looking at the aerosol stuff from stew mac. not sure how that would turn out. i am still on the fence bout the finish, i keep seeing different finishes and go "oooooh, ahhhhhh" I feel like a kid in a toy store with only one allowance in my pocket. I want what I want.....but wait, I want that. The finish is the only thing on this project i CANNOT change after the fact. just looking for pointers or feedback on how others projects turned out. how much filler will i need? will it show through a nitro or even poly finish? does anyone know a website or link that will help me there? is there anyplace less expensive than stewmac? what about local businesses? so many questions and patience is not one of my virtues!

[Bloozcat]

Go here:
http://www.reranch.com/

Read all of the tutorials about guitar finishing. You can get a surprisingly good finish using their aerosol products.

[Tig***]

so many questions and patience is not one of my virtues!

I understand! Unfortunately, we can kill a finish if we get in a hurry.
In a "past life", I was a finish carpenter/painter/stainer that specialized in mahogany doors. I suggest treating a finish project like you would if you were creating fine art. Go slow and at least aim for perfection, but accept near perfection.

I love to see wood grain in a finish. However, if I were to go with a solid color on a Tele, I personally have always GASed for one in surf or sea foam green.

[6stringdrug]

tig, that is sage advice to be sure. I only get one shot at the finish so I will be sure to take my time once getting started. My parts started arriving today and I have some work ahead of me with assembly, fit and disassembly before i start on the finish. I am seriously over budget on this project already and am looking for the most economical way of doing a GREAT job. I noticed that minwax makes lacquer filler and top coat but didnt notice anything specifically designed to go inbetween them. Do you know of any of their products that would work? Im pretty skilled at woodworking and have a lot of experience with their polys, but i've never attempted a nitro finish before. Any tips, suggestions?

[Tig***]

Sorry, I have no experience with nitro finishes, only polyurethane spar varnishes over stain/sealers. I have no guitar finishing experience yet, just fireplace mantels and doors. My memory for the past work is fading because its been so long ago.

Dig around the information at http://www.reranch.com/
and I'm sure you'll find all you need to know.

[6stringdrug]

thanks guys! research and destroy!! Never liked homework much but doin it was easier than repeating the class! Same applies here i suppose.

[M29]

Not sure but I don't think Minwax lacquer is nitro lacquer. It may be some sort of poly/lacquer mix or something. Blooz???

Would you be able to stain the body a dark color and sand off the stain on the higher surfaces to achieve the lighter areas? This would leave dark stain in the deep grain pattern. I am not sure what you are trying to get yet. Sorry I am an old man.

Nitro lacquer really needs a good deal of time to dry up before sanding and polishing. I don't like to wait less than a month. It can be dry to the touch but it will still be setting up for weeks. If you rush it, you run the risk of the nitro shrinking as it dries and your sand scratches or wood grain can end up coming through the finish, ruining all your hard work. When ever I think lacquer I think long time, long time...

IMHO of course.

[Kazz]

Not that I like to steer anyone to other forums but you should check out the tele home depot at www.tdpri.com lots of folks over there doing the build thing and nitro lacquer finishing.

[Bloozcat]

If I'm not mistaken, the MinWax lacquer is acryllic, not nitrocellulose.

As I alluded to earlier, the www.reranch.com site has everything you need in the way of know-how to do the job, along with most of the supplies you'll need to do it. Their spray can nitro lacquers can deliver a professional finish and their tutorials are most helpful. Buy their clear grain filler, spray paint, and clear finish, and also the 3m polishing compound they sell.

Stew-Mac has all the grades of sandpaper you'll need, as well as any polishing pads etc. you'll need. You can even use one of the orbital car polishers with a good, CLEAN, bonnet for buffing out the final finish.

Remember that nitro lacquer melts into itself as each new coat is applied. So, if you use a solid color lacquer you don't need a lot of coats and minimal finishing to the paint itself. It's with your clear coats that you get the final finish and shine.

To do a step-by-step "how to" on lacquer applications would take too much time and space to do here. That's why I refered to the reranch link. There are many others that you can find as well just by doing a google search for "guitar finishing with lacquer", or something similar.

To get the two-tone finish you're looking for you would use a variation of one of the sunburst application methods. Generally, it would consist of applying the lighter coat of the transparent amber to the center of the body, **then applying several coats of clear, and finally applying the dark brown/black edge paint. To achieve the proper burst look for the edge, you would cut out a piece of stiff cardboard to the shape of the body, leaving it a little short around the edges. You would then have to suspend the carboard template above the guitar body about 3/4" or so using toothpicks or something similar, and then spray the darker paint at about a 45 degree angle on the edge of the guitar body and template. A little overspray will get under the template all around the body giving it the feathered "burst" look.

**Remember the clear coats I said to apply to the transparent amber before moving on to the edge paint? Well, this is where it may be needed. Should any dark paint get too far under the template or cause "spotting" on your amber finish, you can wet sand it off the clear finish without damaging the amber undercoat. Again, read up on this and other methods and try everything on scrap wood with cheap paint before trying it on your guitar with nitro.

Oh yeah...

And what M29 said about nitro finishing being time consuming? He's right, it is. It's not an apply tonight play the guitar tomorrow finish. It takes weeks to do correctly...and that's when you can devote the time to a schedule to do so. But...there's nothing like a good nitro finish applied correctly. When done right it'll come out looking like a sheet of glass. And because it's very thin and hard, it interferes far less with the natural resonation of the wood in the body and neck.

[6stringdrug]

blooze, that was more informative than the last week of internet diving. Reranch appears to be the way to go. A little better pricing than stewmac and i like the amber better than stewmacs. Brilliant idea with the floating template, I am sure that's the way I'll go. Going to use a lightbrown burst over the light amber. I have all my hardware and neck, waiting on the confounded body so I can begin the mock up. I will order the finish as soon as thats done. My hopes and dreams of playing by sept are dwindling fast and in a hurry, but I am very excited to be doing my first project. If this goes well I will do a from scratch build next. Thanks again for the help.

[6stringdrug]

Not that I like to steer anyone to other forums but you should check out the tele home depot at www.tdpri.com lots of folks over there doing the build thing and nitro lacquer finishing.

Awesome forum, lots of great ideas for my tele build there! thanks for the steer.

[painter33]

I understand! Unfortunately, we can kill a finish if we get in a hurry.
In a "past life", I was a finish carpenter/painter/stainer that specialized in mahogany doors. I suggest treating a finish project like you would if you were creating fine art. Go slow and at least aim for perfection, but accept near perfection.

I love to see wood grain in a finish. However, if I were to go with a solid color on a Tele, I personally have always GASed for one in surf or sea foam green.

I'm just about to repaint a totally stripped Strat (genuine hard tail conversion, lots'o fun) with Surf Green (see title) and have a raw Tele body that will be Fiesta Cream - a '54 Chevy color. 8-hole, single-ply white pg for the Strat and a std black 3-ply pg for the Tele. I'm using a 2K urethane sealer, Spraymax primer, urethane DuPont Chromabase (Base Coat) Custom Made, 12-16 oz. Spray Paint, and 2k Aeromax urethane clear. I'm using maple fretb'ds on both - light colors and dark necks don't do it for me. For painting information I'm using John Gleneicki's e-book, Paint your Own Guitar (www.paintyourownguitar.com) - it's very complete and John will answer your questions, of which I have had many. The urethane avoids a long cure time and provides a sturdy finish. For those who believe that a thin nitro is better for tone, hold that thought and I'll get back to you. While there are many thin coats to put down, by the time it's sanded back to level, it's not as thick as a Squier poly finish, and many Squiers can truly kick it.

[Tig***]

Welcome to The Fret, painter33. Be sure to post photos of your work.

When you get a chance, tell us more about yourself and gear over at The Fret Players section.