Warning: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in ..../includes/class_bbcode.php on line 2968
250k vs 500k?
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 19 of 20

Thread: 250k vs 500k?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    291
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default 250k vs 500k?

    Does it really make such a big difference using 250k or 500k pots, if yes what are the most noticeable differences?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Uppah Noo Yawk
    Posts
    7,407
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cranium
    Does it really make such a big difference using 250k or 500k pots, if yes what are the most noticeable differences?
    Cranium, there's a good, concise explanation HERE.

    250K pots bleed off more high end, so are usually used with "bright" guitars, esp. single coils like traditional Strats & Teles. 500K's bleed less high-end, so they are good for guitars that have a warmer, darker tone--typically humbucker guitars like LP's, SG's, etc. From this, you could naturally assume that using a 500K volume control in a S-S-S Strat might make the guitar sound too bright. Conversely, a 250K pot could deaden the sound of a humbucker guitar. The question is, by how much, and is it really that noticeable? Good question! I've never installed a 500K in my Strat or a 250 in my LP to actually hear the tonal impact. Maybe somebody else around here has??
    DVM's Ever-Expanding Gear List:

    Guitars - W-A-A-A-Y-Y too many to list. Check 'em all out HERE

    Amps & Cabs - "Kap'n Kerrang-aroo" BYOC 18W TMB kit amp head; Mojave Coyote head; Fender Hot Rod Deluxe Lacquered Tweed Ltd. Ed.; Allen Sweet Spot kit amp; BYOC Tweed Royal kit amp; Epiphone Valve Jr. combo + mods; Drive 2x12 cab / Celestion G12M Greenback + G12H30; AB Custom Audio 1x12 cab / Celestion Alnico Blue

    Pedals/Effects - ZILLIONS, including DVM's Home-built Pedals - See some HERE and HERE, TOO!

    DVM's Gear Photos
    Visit MY WEBSITE!



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA USA
    Posts
    1,860
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Cranium,

    Below please find a PM that was written by Bloozcat a few months ago. I was changing out some old scratchy pots and replaced the two caps. Both pickups are hum-buckers. Caps do make a difference, but you don’t know how much until you put the guitar back together again. I hope the below information helps you in modifying your guitar.

    Voodoo is well experienced at this also.


    Tim

    _______________________

    Re: Potentiometers and Capacitors

    Tim,

    The problem you're experiencing with the neck pickup is not normal. You should possibly have a slight drop off in volume, but not much if at all.

    You've selected some good pickups...very vintage sounding. So, now you'll need a good wiring diagram, some good pots, capacitors, a toggle switch, and an input jack. And maybe some wiring, but you can probably re-use what you have in the guitar already.

    Try this wiring diagram:
    http://www.specialtyguitars.com/kits/lp_diagram.pdf

    It will give you independent volume and tone controls, which is useful when blending the two pickups in the middle position.

    Next you'll need some pots. I'd recommend CTS 500k 3/8" split, knurled, shaft, audio taper that you can purchase from here:

    http://internetmusicsupply.com/
    The number is I-EP-0086-000
    The price shown is $3.22 ea., but I think they've gone up to about $3.40 ea. I'd really recommend that you buy more than the four you need because some may read below the 500k rating. I always use pots that are 500k or higher when I wire a guitar. Ordering about 3-extra usually insures that I'll get at least four that are @ or > 500k. That's just how I like to do it. You may not notice if the pot actually reads at 450k which is still within the +/- 10% that the manufacturer claims as their tolerance. The input jack and the toggle switch can both be purchased here as well. The numbers are: I-EP-0055-00 for the jack, and I-EP-0066-000 for the toggle switch.

    The caps from here:
    http://www.mouser.com
    Part # 539-150103J400AA
    Mallory 150 400v .01uf capacitor $.48 ea Neck Pickup
    #539-150223J250AA
    Mallory 150 250v .022uf capacitor $.50 ea Bridge Pickup
    You might want to get an extra .022mf 250v cap just in case the .010uf for the neck is too bright. And maybe a .047uf 250v cap for the bridge in case the .022uf is too bright. There are other caps like the highly regarded Hovland Music Cap, but they run $12.50 ea. I think you should try the Mallory's first, and go from there. No sense in spending the extra money until you're sure you need to.

    Cheers,
    Bloozcat
    Guitars:

    Electric: Washburn HB-30, Squier Tele Custom Deluxe, Jay Turser Strat.
    Acoustic: Seagull S6.

    AMPs: VOX AD30VT, Peavey Envoy 110.

    Modelers: V-AMP 2, Digitech RP-100A.

    Pedals: Boss RC-2 Loop Station, Boss CE-5 Chorus Ensemble, Digitech Bad Monkey, Ibanez DE7 Delay/Echo, DOD VFX40B 7-Band Graphic EQ, Ibanez CS-5 Super Chorus.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    South Jersey Pine Barrens
    Posts
    1,564
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I fully agree with DVM on the pots.

    What often gets ignored are the caps. They make a huge difference in the sound. I've gone as far as tacking alligator clip leads onto the pots to try out different caps outside of the guitar.
    Guitars: 2008 Gibson SG Classic, 2006 Gibson Les Paul Standard LE, 2002 Gibson SG Supreme, 2001 Gibson Les Paul Studio Plus, 1996 Les Paul Studio Gem, American Deluxe Double Fat Strat, Bluesville "Super" Strat Copy, MIK Fender "Limited Edition" Tele, JD Bluesville "Night Pilot", Yamaha AES 820, Steinberger Spirit GT Pro, Taylor 355CE, Ovation 1897 Adamas, Ovation CC057 Celebrity

    Amps: Axe FX centered rack rig, Mesa 4x12 cab. Germino Club 40, Johnson JM150 Millennium, Johnson JM250 Millennium, Gibson Titan Medalist Frankenstein.

    Effects: Tonebone Trimode, EH Holy Grail, Boss CH-1, Dunlop Crybaby Classic, Framptone Amp Switcher, THD Hot Plate, Yamaha AG Stomp Acoustic Processor, Boss BCB-60 Pedal Board.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA USA
    Posts
    1,860
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Plank_Spanker
    I've gone as far as tacking alligator clip leads onto the pots to try out different caps outside of the guitar.
    I like the way your think Plank Spanker. Experience is the best teacher and it looks like you have a lot of experience. Now you have me thinking of a new experiment to perform on my Tele Deluxe Custom.
    Guitars:

    Electric: Washburn HB-30, Squier Tele Custom Deluxe, Jay Turser Strat.
    Acoustic: Seagull S6.

    AMPs: VOX AD30VT, Peavey Envoy 110.

    Modelers: V-AMP 2, Digitech RP-100A.

    Pedals: Boss RC-2 Loop Station, Boss CE-5 Chorus Ensemble, Digitech Bad Monkey, Ibanez DE7 Delay/Echo, DOD VFX40B 7-Band Graphic EQ, Ibanez CS-5 Super Chorus.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Exterra Cognita
    Posts
    5,724
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim
    Cranium,

    Below please find a PM that was written by Bloozcat a few months ago.

    Re: Potentiometers and Capacitors

    Tim,

    I always use pots that are 500k or higher when I wire a guitar.
    Cheers,
    Bloozcat
    No mention from Bloozcat of lower valued pots for single coils. BTW, where has Bloozcat gone? He was great to have around.
    I pick a moon dog.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA USA
    Posts
    1,860
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tot_Ou_tard
    No mention from Bloozcat of lower valued pots for single coils. BTW, where has Bloozcat gone? He was great to have around.
    It was understood between Bloozcat and myself that I was rewiring double hum-buckers.
    Guitars:

    Electric: Washburn HB-30, Squier Tele Custom Deluxe, Jay Turser Strat.
    Acoustic: Seagull S6.

    AMPs: VOX AD30VT, Peavey Envoy 110.

    Modelers: V-AMP 2, Digitech RP-100A.

    Pedals: Boss RC-2 Loop Station, Boss CE-5 Chorus Ensemble, Digitech Bad Monkey, Ibanez DE7 Delay/Echo, DOD VFX40B 7-Band Graphic EQ, Ibanez CS-5 Super Chorus.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    South Jersey Pine Barrens
    Posts
    1,564
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I've tried 500K pots on single coils just for grins. The sound is pretty shrill. I'll stick to 250K pots for singles. I've heard of guys using 250K pots on some bright HB's like JB's.

    I wonder just how many pickups have been declared garbage when it was just a matter of new pots and caps?
    Guitars: 2008 Gibson SG Classic, 2006 Gibson Les Paul Standard LE, 2002 Gibson SG Supreme, 2001 Gibson Les Paul Studio Plus, 1996 Les Paul Studio Gem, American Deluxe Double Fat Strat, Bluesville "Super" Strat Copy, MIK Fender "Limited Edition" Tele, JD Bluesville "Night Pilot", Yamaha AES 820, Steinberger Spirit GT Pro, Taylor 355CE, Ovation 1897 Adamas, Ovation CC057 Celebrity

    Amps: Axe FX centered rack rig, Mesa 4x12 cab. Germino Club 40, Johnson JM150 Millennium, Johnson JM250 Millennium, Gibson Titan Medalist Frankenstein.

    Effects: Tonebone Trimode, EH Holy Grail, Boss CH-1, Dunlop Crybaby Classic, Framptone Amp Switcher, THD Hot Plate, Yamaha AG Stomp Acoustic Processor, Boss BCB-60 Pedal Board.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Uppah Noo Yawk
    Posts
    7,407
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Plank_Spanker
    What often gets ignored are the caps. They make a huge difference in the sound. I've gone as far as tacking alligator clip leads onto the pots to try out different caps outside of the guitar.
    What are your favored type/brand of tone caps, Spanky? Inquiring minds want to know!
    DVM's Ever-Expanding Gear List:

    Guitars - W-A-A-A-Y-Y too many to list. Check 'em all out HERE

    Amps & Cabs - "Kap'n Kerrang-aroo" BYOC 18W TMB kit amp head; Mojave Coyote head; Fender Hot Rod Deluxe Lacquered Tweed Ltd. Ed.; Allen Sweet Spot kit amp; BYOC Tweed Royal kit amp; Epiphone Valve Jr. combo + mods; Drive 2x12 cab / Celestion G12M Greenback + G12H30; AB Custom Audio 1x12 cab / Celestion Alnico Blue

    Pedals/Effects - ZILLIONS, including DVM's Home-built Pedals - See some HERE and HERE, TOO!

    DVM's Gear Photos
    Visit MY WEBSITE!



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    South Jersey Pine Barrens
    Posts
    1,564
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by duhvoodooman
    What are your favored type/brand of tone caps, Spanky? Inquiring minds want to know!
    It depends on what I can get my hands on. I'm a bit partial to Orange Drops, but I've used regular disc caps before. I have plain jane discs on the Strat I just modded.
    Guitars: 2008 Gibson SG Classic, 2006 Gibson Les Paul Standard LE, 2002 Gibson SG Supreme, 2001 Gibson Les Paul Studio Plus, 1996 Les Paul Studio Gem, American Deluxe Double Fat Strat, Bluesville "Super" Strat Copy, MIK Fender "Limited Edition" Tele, JD Bluesville "Night Pilot", Yamaha AES 820, Steinberger Spirit GT Pro, Taylor 355CE, Ovation 1897 Adamas, Ovation CC057 Celebrity

    Amps: Axe FX centered rack rig, Mesa 4x12 cab. Germino Club 40, Johnson JM150 Millennium, Johnson JM250 Millennium, Gibson Titan Medalist Frankenstein.

    Effects: Tonebone Trimode, EH Holy Grail, Boss CH-1, Dunlop Crybaby Classic, Framptone Amp Switcher, THD Hot Plate, Yamaha AG Stomp Acoustic Processor, Boss BCB-60 Pedal Board.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Uppah Noo Yawk
    Posts
    7,407
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Plank_Spanker
    It depends on what I can get my hands on. I'm a bit partial to Orange Drops, but I've used regular disc caps before. I have plain jane discs on the Strat I just modded.
    Spanky, what do you find to be the tonal characteristics of a poor cap? A harsh or grainy sound? Just wondering if you can describe qualitatively the difference between good and not-so-good....
    DVM's Ever-Expanding Gear List:

    Guitars - W-A-A-A-Y-Y too many to list. Check 'em all out HERE

    Amps & Cabs - "Kap'n Kerrang-aroo" BYOC 18W TMB kit amp head; Mojave Coyote head; Fender Hot Rod Deluxe Lacquered Tweed Ltd. Ed.; Allen Sweet Spot kit amp; BYOC Tweed Royal kit amp; Epiphone Valve Jr. combo + mods; Drive 2x12 cab / Celestion G12M Greenback + G12H30; AB Custom Audio 1x12 cab / Celestion Alnico Blue

    Pedals/Effects - ZILLIONS, including DVM's Home-built Pedals - See some HERE and HERE, TOO!

    DVM's Gear Photos
    Visit MY WEBSITE!



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    South Jersey Pine Barrens
    Posts
    1,564
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by duhvoodooman
    Spanky, what do you find to be the tonal characteristics of a poor cap? A harsh or grainy sound? Just wondering if you can describe qualitatively the difference between good and not-so-good....
    Hmmmmmmm.............................

    That's a loaded question. When I experimented with the Strat, I had a handfull of different value caps. The ones I didn't like sounded flat and lifeless. Some were a little "boomy" sounding. Some of the differences were very subtle.

    I think that it's less of a quality issue with the caps and more in selecting the right value. I have a friend that builds guitars and I usually scrounge my caps and starting values from him.
    Last edited by Plank_Spanker; November 7th, 2006 at 02:22 PM.
    Guitars: 2008 Gibson SG Classic, 2006 Gibson Les Paul Standard LE, 2002 Gibson SG Supreme, 2001 Gibson Les Paul Studio Plus, 1996 Les Paul Studio Gem, American Deluxe Double Fat Strat, Bluesville "Super" Strat Copy, MIK Fender "Limited Edition" Tele, JD Bluesville "Night Pilot", Yamaha AES 820, Steinberger Spirit GT Pro, Taylor 355CE, Ovation 1897 Adamas, Ovation CC057 Celebrity

    Amps: Axe FX centered rack rig, Mesa 4x12 cab. Germino Club 40, Johnson JM150 Millennium, Johnson JM250 Millennium, Gibson Titan Medalist Frankenstein.

    Effects: Tonebone Trimode, EH Holy Grail, Boss CH-1, Dunlop Crybaby Classic, Framptone Amp Switcher, THD Hot Plate, Yamaha AG Stomp Acoustic Processor, Boss BCB-60 Pedal Board.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    918
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I find an enormous difference with my S/S/S equipped guitars using 250K and 500Ks. For singles, I like 250Ks better. for the single-coil sized HBs I use, 500K all the way.
    Last edited by tremoloman; December 22nd, 2006 at 01:31 AM.
    "It's funny the way most people love the dead. Once you are dead, you are made for life." - Jimi Hendrix

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    277
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    yea if you use 250K you get a warmer tone less harsh as for 500K they are primarily good to bring out the highs of humbuckers. I like them in strats when you want that ice pick attack that you ca get from tele's . kinda like albert collins

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,060
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Im really trying to learn bout 'lectronics, pots and caps...

    Ive got an HSS and its got 500k pots, mini pots at that...but my HSS doesnt have a tone pot for the bucker, so then why 500k pots for tone??? And would normal sized pots act differently?

    And then lastly whats an ideal cap for a guitar with this kinda pickup combo? Right now its got a green chicklet.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Idaho (I-duh-ho)
    Posts
    12,581
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    You can do a jumper mod on the switch lugs and incorporate the tone for the bridge into the equation. Just a short piece of wire soldered between two lugs on the 5 way switch will do it. I can't remember which two lugs though.

    If you switch the pots to 250's then it's possible the humbucker will sound too dark then. No snap or clarity.

    "No Tele For you." - The Tele Nazi

    Ha! Tele-ish now inbound.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,060
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Is there any tonal differences between the full size pots and mini pots? Other than fitting under the cover(lack of pickguard)...is there any benifit to either the full sized or mini pots?

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,060
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Is this getting no response because its a dumb question?

    500k=500k reguardless of the size pot? Same everything but size?

    So I should probably stick with mini pots for fitment?

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Uppah Noo Yawk
    Posts
    7,407
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ShortBuSX
    Is this getting no response because its a dumb question?

    500k=500k reguardless of the size pot? Same everything but size?

    So I should probably stick with mini pots for fitment?
    Not a dumb question at all. Have patience on responses. Keep in mind that this is a small forum and there are a lot of topic areas. Not like posting to one of the big forums where your post gets read by 50 people an hour!

    Re: your question, it's just a matter of size/fit, as far as I know. Plus, I would expect the bigger pots to be somewhat more durable, just as a matter of greater mechanical strength.
    DVM's Ever-Expanding Gear List:

    Guitars - W-A-A-A-Y-Y too many to list. Check 'em all out HERE

    Amps & Cabs - "Kap'n Kerrang-aroo" BYOC 18W TMB kit amp head; Mojave Coyote head; Fender Hot Rod Deluxe Lacquered Tweed Ltd. Ed.; Allen Sweet Spot kit amp; BYOC Tweed Royal kit amp; Epiphone Valve Jr. combo + mods; Drive 2x12 cab / Celestion G12M Greenback + G12H30; AB Custom Audio 1x12 cab / Celestion Alnico Blue

    Pedals/Effects - ZILLIONS, including DVM's Home-built Pedals - See some HERE and HERE, TOO!

    DVM's Gear Photos
    Visit MY WEBSITE!



Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •