Gibsons and copies

[ZMAN]

Whether you agree or not I think it is the shape of the headstock that makes or breaks a Gibson copy. The Japanese have solved that issue. In Japan the Epiphone LPs come with a Gibson style open book headstock with Epiphone logo. From 20 feet away you would be hard pressed to tell that difference. Back in the 80s the copies all used that headtstock, and they are now rivalling the Gibsons for price in the Vintage market.
Of course Gibson realized and took the manufacturers to court about it, but now they sanction the guitars that are supposedly only for the Japanese market.
As far as workmanship in the Gibson's vs Epiphones I have not seen that.
In fact I sorted through about a dozen of the first LP Standards shipped from China and found loose tuners, skewed bridges and poorly set up guitars.
The bodies and necks were virtually identical because of the CNC machines, but I guess it took a while to get the QC up to standard. Now I see them as pretty well on an even footing.
When you speak of Fenders the Indonesian, and Chinese made Strats are now as good as MIM and approaching US quality without a doubt. Agian sanctioned by Fender.
And I think that if the Tribute had come with an open book headstock with the Epi logo you would not be able to keep them in stock.

[FrankenFretter***]

Interesting that nobody has mentioned Heritage. Would they even be considered copies? I suppose they are, but with a big difference.

[Jimi75]

Interesting that nobody has mentioned Heritage. Would they even be considered copies? I suppose they are, but with a big difference.

I do not consider Heritage a copy. It's the old Gibson staff, factory, blueprints, headstock angle, etc...Lets not talk about Heritage as copycat here, maybe the Heritage is more original than some Gibson

[marnold***]

I do not consider Heritage a copy. It's the old Gibson staff, factory, blueprints, headstock angle, etc...Lets not talk about Heritage as copycat here, maybe the Heritage is more original than some Gibson

I was going to say. Heritage IS Gibson. Still in old Kazoo.

[Bloozcat]

I suppose you have to proritize your criteria when talking about copies or clones of Gibsons.

Are you looking for a dead ringer copy right down to headstock shape, curve of the body horn, tuner type, paint finish, etc.?

*OR*

Are you looking for a clone that has those things that are responsible for the tone and playability of a Gibson even though it might not look exactly like the Gibson its copying?

The basic shape of a Les Paul is partially responsible for its tone. Start with the correct wood types like the 2-piece mahogany body, 2-Piece book matched 3/4" carved maple top, one piece mahogany neck with the correct tenon and you complete the proper wood aspect of the LP puzzle. Then you add the quality of assembly with proper neck work, fit, finish, intonation, and playability, and you've got the "feels right/proper set-up" aspect in place. Next, you add quality hardware & electronics and finally the finish (paint) and you've got the rest of the puzzle. It isn't magic, it's attention to detail and good quality control that makes a clone "just as good as a Gibson" or not. The Japanese proved it by not only making clones that sound and play like Gibsons, but they even look just like them. Many of these Japanese copies go for more than the Norlin era "real" Gibsons due to their superior quality. Of course, we're now in the lawsuit era where exact copies are disallowed by law, but that doesn't mean you can't get a quasi-clone that feels and sounds like a Gibson.

A word on the electronics: Gibson doesn't hold their electronics to a rigid spec. They do with their pickups, but not the rest of the components.They basically grab whatever 500k pots they have on hand (+/- 20% tollerance) and add them to the Gibson/Switchcraft toggle switch and input jact that's also on hand. Then they add generic capacitors (or deceivingly, "fake" look alike bumblebees), good quality wire, and that's the electronics package. Just take a trip over to mylespaul.com and look at all the Gibson LP owners over there who regularly change the electronics on their $2500.00 (and up) "real" Les Pauls. And many of them change out the Gibson pickups for after markets as well. So, does it really matter if your "clone" uses lesser quality electronic components if you're likely to change them out anyway? At least with your clone, you didn't pay a premium price for those components.

I don't have a thing against Gibson, except that the price of an LP has gone up 400% since the mid 70's. I've owned a couple of Gibsons in the past and liked them very much.

A buddy who I hunt with bought a new Gibson Les Paul that he brought to the hunting lodge a couple of years ago. I got to play it a lot for 4-days and although I thought it was a good guitar, I like the feel (and tone) of my Agile AL-3100M better. He paid just under $2k for the Gibson. I paid, tops, $725.00 for my Agile with hand selected CTS pots, Switchcraft toggle switch & input jack, NOS Sprague PIO caps, and Guitarforce custom pickups installed.. Is my friend's LP worth the $1275.00 extra he paid for it? Not to me, not for my needs, not for my pocket book. Ok, he got a nitro finish while mine is just polyurethane, but mine has better tone and plays better...

We're in a golden age of guitars. Never has the availability of inexpensive, quality, guitars been better.

[NWBasser]

I do not consider Heritage a copy. It's the old Gibson staff, factory, blueprints, headstock angle, etc...Lets not talk about Heritage as copycat here, maybe the Heritage is more original than some Gibson

And G&L is more Fender than Fender!